19:56:36 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-async
19:56:36 <RRSAgent> is logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/02/02-ws-async-irc
19:56:44 <mnot> zakim, this will be ws_async_tf
19:56:44 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, mnot
19:56:51 <mnot> zakim, what conferences do you see?
19:56:51 <Zakim> I see WS_TF(async)3:00PM, Team_(wai)19:28Z, XML_CG()2:00PM active and no others scheduled near this time
19:57:03 <mnot> zakim, this will be ws_tf
19:57:03 <Zakim> ok, mnot, I see WS_TF(async)3:00PM already started
19:57:17 <mnot> Meeting: Web Services Async Task Force
19:57:21 <mnot> Chair: Mark Nottingham
19:57:41 <hugo> hugo has joined #ws-async
19:57:54 <hugo> Zakim, who's on the phone?
19:57:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see MarkN
19:58:06 <hugo> Zakim, call Rigo-617
19:58:06 <Zakim> ok, hugo; the call is being made
19:58:07 <Zakim> +Rigo
19:58:13 <Marsh> Marsh has joined #ws-async
19:59:15 <anish> anish has joined #ws-async
19:59:18 <marc> marc has joined #ws-async
19:59:52 <MSEder> MSEder has joined #ws-async
20:00:33 <Zakim> +[IBM]
20:01:03 <Zakim> +Steve
20:01:05 <GregT> GregT has joined #ws-async
20:01:12 <Zakim> +MSEder
20:01:30 <MSEder> zakim, mute me
20:01:30 <Zakim> MSEder should now be muted
20:02:07 <Zakim> +Ugo_Corda
20:02:16 <kliu> kliu has joined #ws-async
20:02:24 <ugo> ugo has joined #ws-async
20:02:24 <Zakim> +??P11
20:02:28 <Zakim> +Kevin_Kelly[IBM]
20:02:33 <Roberto> Roberto has joined #ws-async
20:03:25 <mnot> zakim, who is here?
20:03:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see MarkN, Rigo, [IBM], Steve, MSEder (muted), Ugo_Corda, ??P11, Kevin_Kelly[IBM]
20:03:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see Roberto, ugo, kliu, GregT, MSEder, marc, anish, Marsh, hugo, RRSAgent, Zakim, mnot
20:03:43 <mnot> zakim, P11 is TonyRogers
20:03:43 <Zakim> sorry, mnot, I do not recognize a party named 'P11'
20:03:54 <mnot> zakim, 11 is TonyRogers
20:03:54 <Zakim> sorry, mnot, I do not recognize a party named '11'
20:03:56 <hugo> Zakim, Kevin_Kelly[IBM] is Glen
20:03:56 <Zakim> +Glen; got it
20:03:57 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Marsh
20:04:07 <mnot> zakim, ??P11 is TonyRogers
20:04:07 <Zakim> +TonyRogers; got it
20:04:15 <TonyR> TonyR has joined #ws-async
20:04:28 <mnot> Zakim, TonyR is TonyRogers
20:04:28 <Zakim> +TonyRogers; got it
20:04:33 <mnot> zakim, who is here?
20:04:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see MarkN, Rigo, [IBM], Steve, MSEder (muted), Ugo_Corda, TonyRogers.a, Glen, Jonathan_Marsh
20:04:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see TonyR, Roberto, ugo, kliu, GregT, MSEder, marc, anish, Marsh, hugo, RRSAgent, Zakim, mnot
20:04:40 <anish> what is the passcode for this call?
20:04:40 <hugo> Zakim, [IBM] holds Greg
20:04:40 <Zakim> +Greg; got it
20:04:59 <kliu> sorry I forget the Zakim meeting id, can somebody help? 
20:05:06 <anish> me too
20:05:25 <TonyR> async
20:05:25 <MSEder> zakim, unmote me
20:05:25 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmote me', MSEder
20:05:32 <MSEder> zakim,unmute me
20:05:32 <Zakim> MSEder should no longer be muted
20:06:02 <Zakim> + +1.503.417.aaaa
20:06:29 <Marsh> http://www.w3.org/2001/01/cgi-irc
20:06:35 <MSEder> zakim, mute me
20:06:35 <Zakim> MSEder should now be muted
20:06:38 <marc> i'd also like to know the dial in info
20:06:55 <anish> scribe: anish
20:06:59 <anish> Scribe: anish
20:07:01 <Zakim> +KevinL
20:07:05 <stevewinkler> stevewinkler has joined #ws-async
20:07:09 <Zakim> +[Sun]
20:07:16 <marc> ah, found it: +1.617.761.6200, conference 27962
20:07:44 <Zakim> +Marc
20:07:57 <anish> mark: glen has agreed to chair the TF meetings
20:08:21 <anish> mark: we have 3 more weeks to present to the WG at the tech plenary
20:08:55 <anish> greg presents what he sent out on the ML
20:08:56 <Zakim> +[webMethods]
20:09:08 <asir> asir has joined #ws-async
20:10:05 <Zakim> -Marc
20:11:09 <Zakim> +Marc
20:20:52 <anish> q+
20:21:25 <anish> glen: there are lot of usecases where WSDL gets generated into server side code
20:21:43 <anish> ... i take the wsdl and the code generated is the programming model
20:22:25 <anish> greg: from a logical perspective this could be a single portType, but if they are split up then they are going to be different things
20:22:49 <anish> glen: wsdl is one layering of looking at messages on the wire
20:22:54 <anish> ... another layer is bpel
20:26:13 <kliu> glen, to me the scope of wsdl and bpel is clear: wsdl mep deals with message exchange within an operation, bpel deals with operations, and only in the abstract level
20:26:59 <kliu> the issue is now if an abstract  wsdl mep is splitted into mulitple binding meps
20:27:31 <kliu> then bpel will not be able to compose the binding meps
20:29:30 <anish> discussion between anish and glen about bpel and wsdl. General agreement about various ways to do this and coming up with pros and cons and presenting it to the WGs
20:31:50 <anish> ugo: wsdl 1.1 does allow this thru extensibility
20:31:58 <anish> glen: yes, but syntactically it does not say how
20:34:04 <anish> jonathan: this (greg's approach) seems more creative than daveo's approach
20:34:33 <anish> anish: well regardless of which approach we take I think we need to do what daveo has suggested as well as what greg is trying to do
20:34:58 <anish> ... daveo is looking at MEPs and bindings where as greg is looking at things on the wire and WSDL
20:35:16 <anish> glen: at the very least we need to come up with a SOAP one-way MEP
20:35:47 <anish> kevin: we also need to provide a poll (out-only operation)
20:36:48 <anish> <more discussion on out-only operation and SOAP binding>
20:37:35 <Zakim> +[IBM.a]
20:38:53 <anish> glen: we need to come up with question and possible answers to those, such as do we need to create a new MEP etc
20:39:18 <anish> jonathan: wouldn't it help enumerate what we want to support?
20:39:28 <MSEder> zakim, unmute me
20:39:28 <Zakim> MSEder should no longer be muted
20:39:32 <kliu> sounds I didn't make myself clear
20:39:38 <MSEder> zakim, unmute me
20:39:38 <Zakim> MSEder was not muted, MSEder
20:39:39 <kliu> what I was trying to say is that
20:40:22 <anish> greg: the three models are: one-way, request-response, and response-response over different transport
20:40:36 <anish> ... sounds like glen is asking for a fourth case
20:40:37 <kliu> no matter it's in-only or out-only)
20:41:06 <anish> marc: there is a std way to do this in HTTP by saying get the result of this from this URI
20:41:32 <kliu> ...we can define a http binding
20:41:53 <kliu> ... for one-directional meps
20:42:00 <anish> marc: one of the problems is dealing with NATs for post followed by a get
20:43:04 <kliu> ... which specifies how to deal with the http response, just like what's in BP
20:43:08 <anish> glen: there is a case where the response may have a choice of binding (thru replyTO)
20:43:35 <anish> greg: in slide 16 of my presentation
20:43:50 <kliu> ... that http binding is applicable for both in-only and out-only wsdl meps
20:44:20 <MSEder> zakim, mute me
20:44:20 <Zakim> MSEder should now be muted
20:44:34 <anish> greg: won't the server need to know apriori what the binding will be
20:45:52 <anish> glen: the high order bit here is -- the given operation is bound asynch or synch?
20:47:28 <anish> greg: or different transports
20:48:05 <MSEder> zakim,unmute me
20:48:05 <Zakim> MSEder should no longer be muted
20:48:41 <anish> <more discussion on how the bindings/transport>
20:49:33 <anish> glen: two things - same transport different connections, different transport different connections
20:50:17 <MSEder> q+
20:50:36 <anish> anish: this ties in to the WSD issue about allowing binding at the input and output level
20:51:44 <anish> micheal: another thing to do is -- same operation and the server decides whether the response is sent synchronously or asynchronously
20:52:19 <MSEder> zakim,mute me
20:52:19 <Zakim> MSEder should now be muted
20:55:01 <TonyR> q+
20:55:26 <anish> <discussion about synch v. asynch and client programming model>
20:56:18 <mnot> ack TOnyR
20:56:35 <MSEder> zakim, unmute me
20:56:35 <Zakim> MSEder should no longer be muted
20:56:40 <anish> tony: to my mind the important thing about asynch is not what the server sees but what the client does while the client is waiting for the response
20:56:55 <anish> ... the only issue is if the client side is trying to do something else
20:57:12 <anish> ... if it is, then it is asynch
20:57:21 <mnot> ack anish
20:57:27 <mnot> ack mseder
20:57:51 <anish> michael: we need to be more organized, we have good input from today's discussion. But need to list things out
20:58:26 <MSEder> zakim, mute me
20:58:26 <Zakim> MSEder should now be muted
20:58:42 <MSEder> +1
20:59:19 <anish> kevin volunteers to summarize the options
20:59:24 <anish> anish to help kevin
20:59:42 <anish> marc: willing to dig out stuff about HTTP and using GET
21:00:20 <anish> ACTION: keving to send out a summary with various option for WSDL 2.0
21:00:39 <anish> ACTION: glen to start discussion for appropriate wsdl granularity for aynch binding
21:00:44 <kliu> s/keving/kevin
21:01:01 <anish> ACTION 2: glen to start discussion for appropriate wsdl granularity for multi-transport binding
21:01:13 <anish> ACTION 2=glen to start discussion for appropriate wsdl granularity for multi-transport binding
21:01:22 <anish> ACTION 3=
21:01:51 <anish> ACTION: marc to look into HTTP POST+GET approach
21:02:17 <mnot> rrsagent, generate minutes
21:02:45 <anish> adjouned
21:02:47 <Zakim> -[IBM]
21:02:49 <Zakim> -Roberto
21:02:49 <Zakim> -Glen
21:02:50 <Zakim> -KevinL
21:02:50 <Zakim> -Marc
21:02:51 <ugo> ugo has left #ws-async
21:02:52 <Zakim> -Rigo
21:02:52 <GregT> GregT has left #ws-async
21:02:53 <Zakim> -Ugo_Corda
21:02:54 <Zakim> -asir
21:02:55 <Zakim> -Jonathan_Marsh
21:02:57 <Zakim> -Steve
21:02:59 <Zakim> -MSEder
21:02:59 <TonyR> TonyR has left #ws-async
21:03:00 <Zakim> -MarkN
21:03:00 <asir> asir has left #ws-async
21:03:02 <Zakim> -anish
21:03:04 <Zakim> -[IBM.a]
21:03:06 <Zakim> WS_TF(async)3:00PM has ended
21:03:08 <Zakim> Attendees were MarkN, Rigo, Steve, MSEder, Ugo_Corda, Glen, Jonathan_Marsh, TonyRogers, Greg, +1.503.417.aaaa, anish, KevinL, [Sun], Roberto, Marc, [webMethods], asir, [IBM]
21:03:57 <mnot> rrsagent, make minutes public
21:03:57 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', mnot.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:04:08 <mnot> rrsagent, generate minutes public
21:04:08 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'generate minutes public', mnot.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:04:14 <mnot> rrsagent, generate minutes
21:05:02 <mnot> rrsagent, drop action 3
21:05:53 <MSEder> MSEder has left #ws-async
21:05:56 <mnot> rrsagent, make minutes world-visible
21:05:56 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-visible', mnot.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:06:04 <mnot> rrsagent, make logs world-visiable
21:06:11 <mnot> rrsagent, make logs world-access
21:06:16 <mnot> rrsagent, generate minutes