IRC log of swbp on 2005-01-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:59:06 [RRSAgent]
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is logging to
17:59:17 [Zakim]
17:59:41 [guus]
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Meeting: SemWeb Best Practices and Deployment WG
17:59:53 [Ralph]
Chair: Guus
18:00:10 [Fabien]
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18:01:44 [Zakim]
18:01:46 [Zakim]
18:02:00 [Zakim]
+Fabien_Gandon (was [Sophia])
18:02:20 [ChrisW]
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18:02:22 [guus]
zakim, ??p27 is Jeff
18:02:22 [Zakim]
sorry, guus, I do not recognize a party named '??p27'
18:02:25 [aharth]
aharth has joined #swbp
18:02:44 [guus]
zakim, ??P7 is Jeff
18:02:44 [Zakim]
+Jeff; got it
18:02:57 [JeffP]
JeffP has joined #swbp
18:03:00 [Zakim]
18:03:20 [guus]
zakim, ??p8 is Jeremy
18:03:20 [Zakim]
+Jeremy; got it
18:03:36 [Zakim]
18:03:58 [ChrisW]
zakim, [IBM] is temporarily me
18:03:58 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
18:04:04 [guus]
zakim, [IBM] is ChirsW
18:04:04 [Zakim]
sorry, guus, I do not recognize a party named '[IBM]'
18:04:16 [Zakim]
18:04:19 [jjc]
jjc has joined #swbp
18:04:26 [guus]
zakim, IBM is ChrisW
18:04:26 [Zakim]
sorry, guus, I do not recognize a party named 'IBM'
18:04:28 [Zakim]
18:04:36 [Zakim]
+Andreas_Harth (was ??P11)
18:04:48 [Zakim]
18:05:06 [guus]
zakim, ??P12 is AlistairM
18:05:06 [Zakim]
+AlistairM; got it
18:05:14 [Ralph]
18:05:23 [Ralph]
Ralph has changed the topic to: SWBP agenda
18:06:05 [jjcscribe]
Meeting starting
18:06:06 [aliman]
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1 Admin
18:06:42 [jjcscribe]
many regrets (see agenda and list)
18:06:53 [Ralph]
Scribe: Jeremy
18:06:54 [jjcscribe]
Zakim, who's here?
18:06:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Phil_Tetlow, Guus, Ralph, Fabien_Gandon (muted), Jeff, Jeremy, ChrisW, Gavin_McKenzie, Andreas_Harth, AlistairM
18:06:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see aliman, jjcscribe, JeffP, aharth, ChrisW, Fabien, guus, RRSAgent, Zakim, Ralph, PhilT
18:07:06 [Ralph]
scribenick: jjcscribe
18:07:31 [jjcscribe]
minutes accpeted nem con
18:07:47 [jjcscribe]
18:07:57 [jjcscribe]
next meeting agreed Feb 10 , 1800 UTC
18:08:02 [jjcscribe]
no agenda amendments
18:08:13 [jjcscribe]
On tech plenary
18:08:34 [jjcscribe]
Ralph asks for people to reserve hotel rooms
18:08:48 [jjcscribe]
W3C is well below anticipated number
18:09:28 [jjcscribe]
Adjournment time: Ralph suggests 4pm
18:09:46 [jjcscribe]
Guus: seconds
18:09:52 [jjcscribe]
no objections
18:09:57 [Ralph]
Regrets: Evan_Wallace, Darren_Govoni, Natasha_Noy, Libby_Miller, Marco_Nanni, Deborah_McGuinness, Alan_Rector, Dan_Brickley, Benjamin_Nguyen
18:10:04 [jjcscribe]
RESOLVED f2f will adjourn at 4pm march 4
18:10:51 [Ralph]
Jeremy: would be good to touch base with other WGs, e.g. HTML
18:11:34 [aharth]
zakim, mute aharth
18:11:35 [Zakim]
sorry, aharth, I do not see a party named 'aharth'
18:11:39 [aharth]
zakim, mute Andreas_Harth
18:11:39 [Zakim]
Andreas_Harth should now be muted
18:12:08 [jjcscribe]
Circulating agenda some time next week
18:12:30 [jjcscribe]
ACTION guus ask steven pemberton for meeting concerning XHTML2 meta module
18:13:07 [jjcscribe]
ACTION: guus ask steven pemberton for meeting concerning XHTML2 meta module
18:13:35 [jjcscribe]
old action Guus to contact someone regarding "source response" issue
18:14:28 [gmckenzi]
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jeremy reckons the DAWG may have resolve this
18:14:50 [jjcscribe]
action withdrawn
18:15:02 [jjcscribe]
old action Ralph to report back
18:15:06 [jjcscribe]
is done
18:15:40 [jjcscribe]
agendum 2 ODM review
18:15:47 [Ralph]
Topic: ODM Review
18:16:37 [Zakim]
18:16:42 [Ralph]
Phil: Jeremy and I are bouncing comments back and forth
18:16:48 [jjcscribe]
Jeremy posted comments
18:16:56 [jjcscribe]
18:17:06 [jjcscribe]
Guus still on-going with his review
18:17:19 [jjcscribe]
Jeremy does not support Phil's comment:
18:17:43 [mikeU]
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18:17:53 [guus]
zakim, ??p13 is MikeU
18:17:53 [Zakim]
+MikeU; got it
18:18:17 [jjcscribe]
Phil believes that a master model, a UML model, supporting the hub-spoke position
18:19:47 [Ralph]
JJC: I felt that it would take a long time to address Phil's comment and that would set back the document
18:21:59 [jjcscribe]
JJC: can't support even the content of Phil's comments (given feedback from colleague)
18:25:10 [jjcscribe]
Ralph weak support for Jeremy's position that Phil's comments not sufficiently constructive
18:25:19 [jjcscribe]
Phil lets matter drop
18:25:37 [jjcscribe]
On Jeremy comments. Main poiint is that the OWL Metamodel still has OWL DLism
18:25:59 [jjcscribe]
Guus suggests that Jeremy sends these as personal comments, and Jeremy agrees
18:26:07 [tbaker]
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18:26:19 [Ralph]
"not sufficiently constructive"; i.e. a specific proposed change would be what a W3C Working Group would expect from a Last Call review comment
18:26:27 [Zakim]
18:26:32 [jjcscribe]
(thanks ralph)
18:26:33 [tbaker]
18:27:36 [jjcscribe]
Jeremy suggests that an n-ary relations editor should look at half page of ODM doc
18:27:48 [jjcscribe]
ACTION: jeremy ask natasha to review that half page
18:28:37 [jjcscribe]
(clarify page 68/69)
18:29:00 [jjcscribe]
Debs and Guus's actions are continued
18:29:16 [jjcscribe]
ChrisW: Holger has agreed to review
18:30:02 [jjcscribe]
Jeremy: I believe HP will do further review
18:30:24 [Ralph]
Topic: OEP TF Update
18:30:28 [jjcscribe]
Agendum 3.1
18:30:45 [Ralph]
ACTION: ralph to make a "List of WG documents" more apparent from the home page
18:30:49 [jjcscribe]
ChrisW We have new draft on part/whole relations, and editors draft
18:30:50 [Ralph]
-- continued
18:30:55 [jjcscribe]
on other documents
18:30:55 [Ralph]
Regrets+ Elisa Kendall
18:31:10 [jjcscribe]
hoping to have draft on units/measures
18:31:30 [jjcscribe]
Natasha wants to take classes-as-values to next step
18:31:44 [jjcscribe]
Guus: this would be WG Note
18:32:14 [jjcscribe]
There is no Last Call for WD->WG Note transition
18:32:40 [jjcscribe]
Ralph: is natasha saying that no further changes are expected?
18:33:02 [jjcscribe]
Ralph: if so then we move to W3C Note, we don't expect to do further work on this doc
18:33:23 [jjcscribe]
ChrisW: this will be discussed at next OEP telecon
18:33:40 [jjcscribe]
ChrisW: new WD on n-ary relations in preparation
18:34:42 [jjcscribe]
Guus: for all three we need versions for WG review (classes as values, value partitions)
18:35:30 [ChrisW]
18:37:45 [jjcscribe]
Guus suggests that OEP makes formal proposal to move these to WG note to be decided at next telecon
18:38:18 [jjcscribe]
n-ary relations may or may not be ready for next WD ... ChrisW is about to propose more changes ...
18:39:47 [jjcscribe]
Ralph asks for volunteers to review n-ary relations ...
18:39:56 [jjcscribe]
18:40:20 [jjcscribe]
jjc: I'll be on holiday
18:40:24 [jjcscribe]
Ralph volunteers
18:40:42 [jjcscribe]
ACTION: Ralph review next version of n-ary relations when it is ready
18:41:31 [jjcscribe]
part-whole not ready for formal review
18:41:54 [jjcscribe]
agendum 3.2 PORT
18:42:40 [jjcscribe]
alistair suggests putting back the deadline for drafts by a week or two
18:42:55 [jjcscribe]
current deadline is for one week from today
18:43:11 [jjcscribe]
but it may take longer because discussion is in depth
18:43:38 [jjcscribe]
Guus: do we expect to have a draft ready for publication by next telecon
18:43:49 [jjcscribe]
(Feb 10)
18:44:14 [jjcscribe]
Alistair ... looks at calendar
18:45:34 [jjcscribe]
Ralph - reviewers need to be able to tell rest of WG that comments are satisfactorially addressed
18:48:19 [jjcscribe]
Guus - it would be nice to get more docs published before TP
18:48:20 [mikeU]
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18:48:34 [aliman]
18:48:46 [jjcscribe]
is progress report on PORT
18:48:47 [aliman]
(progress report for PORT)
18:48:58 [jjcscribe]
Agendum 3.3 Wordnet
18:49:44 [guus]
WordNet TF: Mark van Assem has been asked (VU)
18:49:56 [jjcscribe]
to help ...
18:50:10 [jjcscribe]
Ralph: he should attend telecons if he is participant
18:51:06 [jjcscribe]
ACTION: guus discuss Mark's participation in Wordnet tf with Brian
18:51:21 [jjcscribe]
MikeU: on wordnet ...
18:51:40 [jjcscribe]
The link from the main page doesn't have any links
18:52:37 [jjcscribe]
are there any notes ?
18:52:48 [jjcscribe]
Jeremy: I didn't find any useful documents
18:53:03 [jjcscribe]
Guus: Brian has a doc that Guus finds useful
18:53:33 [Ralph]
Topic: XML Schema Datatypes
18:53:54 [Ralph]
JJC: all of Evan's comments should now be addressed, though need to close the loop with him
18:53:57 [guus]
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18:55:53 [Ralph]
... would like WG review to start; if any of Evan's comments aren't closed, that discussion can continue in parallel
18:56:03 [Ralph]
... want other WGs to be able to review
18:56:23 [Ralph]
... will send a dated URL after telecon adjourns
18:57:09 [Ralph]
[finding "wordnet breakout: raw notes" ]
18:57:50 [Ralph]
JJC: I would like to bring the current editor's draft to the attention of other WGs and solicit their comments before the Tech Plenary
18:58:51 [Ralph]
... because this is a W3C Working Draft
18:59:19 [Ralph]
... would like some internal W3C review before it goes public
19:00:27 [Ralph]
Ralph: you may be over-cautious; I think the Status of This Document can adequately explain its status, but I have no objection to giving other WGs an opportunity to comment before it is published
19:00:41 [Ralph]
Guus: suggest an informal message from Jeremy as editor to the other WGs
19:01:07 [Ralph]
Jeremy: would like the f2f agenda to include a formal proposal to move to WD
19:01:32 [jjcscribe]
Agendum 3.5 VM
19:01:33 [Ralph]
... conditional on any comments received prior to then
19:01:46 [jjcscribe]
ralph's action done
19:01:54 [jjcscribe]
Tom: draft is behind schedule ...
19:02:20 [Ralph]
[Ralph confesses to being one of the holdouts on writing for VM :( ]
19:02:46 [jjcscribe]
ACTION: jjc draft msg to other WGs concerning XSCH doc,
19:03:53 [jjcscribe]
Dan and libby have been busy
19:04:09 [jjcscribe]
Tom; hard to commit to timetable ...
19:05:13 [Zakim]
19:06:23 [jjcscribe]
skos and foaf are two important vocabularies
19:06:34 [jjcscribe]
tom has been reviewing skos specs
19:07:01 [jjcscribe]
still missing stuff on foundational docs
19:07:22 [jjcscribe]
big missing piece is description of aspects of foaf
19:07:54 [jjcscribe]
guus can we publish without foaf
19:08:35 [jjcscribe]
jeremy: a WD is working and can include placeholders in missing section
19:08:55 [jjcscribe]
guus: I don't think foaf is a critical missing piece
19:11:11 [jjcscribe]
agendum 3.6 RDF-in-HTML
19:11:21 [jjcscribe]
there was discussion at cg
19:12:04 [jjcscribe]
and agreement that swbp/html meeting at tp would be good
19:13:07 [jjcscribe]
ralph we believe that html wg intend to publish lc including rdf/a but we have no formal or informal comms indicating this
19:14:28 [jjcscribe]
ralph: TF will consider what to do with grddl ... at future TF telecons
19:15:43 [jjcscribe]
ralph: TF could be aiming to declare success at TP
19:15:55 [jjcscribe]
agendum 3.7 ADTF
19:16:04 [jjcscribe]
Libby has rejoined WG from asemantics
19:16:16 [jjcscribe]
agendum 3.8 RDFTM
19:16:24 [jjcscribe]
bios sent
19:17:40 [Ralph]
-> [RDFTM] Status and regrets [Steve Pepper 2005-01-27]
19:18:02 [Zakim]
19:19:00 [jjcscribe]
ACTION: guus send msg to Steve and RDFTM reminding them to use list for TF discussions
19:19:06 [Ralph]
I am concerned that RDFTM discussions seem to be taking place off-list
19:19:15 [jjcscribe]
(observation that TF is progressing, but not much visiible traffic)
19:19:29 [jjcscribe]
3.10 agendum
19:19:43 [jjcscribe]
Phil things are going well, Jeff got web page up
19:19:45 [Ralph]
Kudos to SE TF for publishing minutes of their telecon
19:22:13 [jjcscribe]
jjc: my colleagues would like me to tell them what SE is doing, but I can't
19:22:24 [jjcscribe]
Phil: give us a little longer to be more specific
19:22:40 [Ralph]
-> [SE] Web page updated [Jeff 2005-01-27]
19:23:48 [jjcscribe]
Guus: a note mapping worldviews of SW and SE
19:24:10 [jjcscribe]
this should be doable in a 3-6 vmonth time scale
19:24:50 [jjcscribe]
Phil: let's discuss autonomics
19:24:55 [tbaker]
(Tom Baker needs to leave Zakim - will stay on IRC)
19:25:01 [Zakim]
19:25:07 [jjcscribe]
Guus: but autonomics is not clear in SW, and not low lying fruit
19:27:09 [jjcscribe]
Ralph and guus would like TF to concentrate on low lying fruit
19:27:29 [jjcscribe]
Guus: IBM have offered support of grady booch on this TF
19:28:50 [jjcscribe]
Phil: Univ of Sunderland has joined W3C ....and hope to participate in this WG
19:29:31 [jjcscribe]
Guus: this is potentially very useful TF but we need to focus on clear short term deliverables
19:30:02 [Ralph]
Topic: AOB
19:30:04 [Zakim]
19:30:35 [Ralph]
JJC: should we talk with I18N folk during Tech Plenary to see what internationalization issues exist for the Semantic Web
19:31:01 [gmckenzi]
gmckenzi has left #swbp
19:31:02 [Zakim]
19:31:06 [Zakim]
19:31:08 [jjcscribe]
19:31:08 [Zakim]
19:31:12 [Zakim]
19:31:14 [Zakim]
19:31:18 [Zakim]
19:31:49 [Ralph]
Phil: Peter Smith of Univeristy of Sunderland says Sunderland has joined W3C expressly to participate in SWBP
19:32:01 [Ralph]
Ralph: doesn't yet see mail from Peter
19:32:06 [jjc]
jjc has joined #swbp
19:42:15 [Zakim]
19:42:17 [Zakim]
19:42:23 [Zakim]
SW_BPD()1:00PM has ended
19:42:24 [Zakim]
Attendees were Phil_Tetlow, Guus, Ralph, Fabien_Gandon, Jeff, Jeremy, ChrisW, Gavin_McKenzie, Andreas_Harth, AlistairM, MikeU, Tom_Baker
19:44:59 [tbaker_]
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20:18:42 [Ralph]
rrsagent, bye
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
I see 7 open action items:
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: guus ask steven pemberton for meeting concerning XHTML2 meta module [1]
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeremy ask natasha to review that half page [2]
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ralph to make a "List of WG documents" more apparent from the home page [3]
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph review next version of n-ary relations when it is ready [4]
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: guus discuss Mark's participation in Wordnet tf with Brian [5]
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jjc draft msg to other WGs concerning XSCH doc, [6]
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: guus send msg to Steve and RDFTM reminding them to use list for TF discussions [7]
20:18:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in