IRC log of wai-wcag on 2005-01-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:19 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:55:19 [RRSAgent]: is logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/01/26-wai-wcag-irc
14:56:18 [ben]: ben has joined #wai-wcag
14:57:15 [ben]: ben has left #wai-wcag
14:57:24 [ben]: ben has joined #wai-wcag
14:58:16 [wendy]: wendy has joined #wai-wcag
14:58:30 [wendy]: scribe: wendy
14:58:54 [wendy]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/0303.html
14:59:33 [wendy]: agenda+ Requirements for General techniques http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/0301.html
14:59:50 [wendy]: agenda+ Requirements for checklists & techniques & test files http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-wcag2-tech-req-20050125.html
15:00:07 [wendy]: agenda+ Applicability Conditions http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/0062
15:00:26 [wendy]: agenda+ Finish review of alt text test files http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/checkstatus.html#alttests
15:00:40 [wendy]: agenda+ Assign reviewers to test files http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/
15:00:53 [wendy]: Date: 26 January 2005
15:00:56 [Zakim]: WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has now started
15:01:03 [Zakim]: +??P20
15:01:10 [Zakim]: +Michael_Cooper
15:01:10 [wendy]: Meeting: WCAG WG TTF weekly telecon
15:01:12 [Zakim]: -??P20
15:01:13 [Zakim]: +??P20
15:01:33 [Zakim]: +Wendy
15:01:47 [Zakim]: +John_Slatin
15:02:13 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
15:02:32 [wendy]: zakim, [Microsoft] is Jenae
15:02:32 [Zakim]: +Jenae; got it
15:02:42 [Zakim]: +??P28
15:02:50 [ben]: zakim, ??P28 is Ben
15:02:50 [Zakim]: +Ben; got it
15:03:09 [David_]: David_ has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:15 [David_]: test
15:03:41 [wendy]: Regrets: Chris Ridpath, Ken Kipnes, Becky Gibson, Sailesh Panchang, Don Evans, Neil Soiffer
15:03:50 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:04:01 [wendy]: zakim, IPcaller is Alistair
15:04:01 [Zakim]: +Alistair; got it
15:06:02 [wendy]: zakim, who's here?
15:06:02 [Zakim]: On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Wendy, John_Slatin, Jenae, Ben, Alistair
15:06:04 [Zakim]: On IRC I see David_, wendy, ben, RRSAgent, Zakim, Michael
15:06:11 [wendy]: agenda?
15:06:30 [wendy]: zakim, drop item 4
15:06:30 [Zakim]: agendum 4, Finish review of alt text test files http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/checkstatus.html#alttests, dropped
15:06:54 [wendy]: zakim, take up item 1
15:06:54 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Requirements for General techniques http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/0301.html" taken up [from wendy]
15:07:11 [wendy]: zakim, who's making noise?
15:07:21 [Zakim]: wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Michael_Cooper (59%), Alistair (29%)
15:10:28 [wendy]: js: examples should build on each other (from SC through general through other techs documents)
15:10:36 [wendy]: js: reads through proposal
15:11:55 [wendy]: q+
15:12:01 [Michael]: q+
15:12:11 [wendy]: dmd: can we get to a 9th grade level?
15:12:28 [ben]: q+
15:13:04 [wendy]: js: chose that b/c of a canadian literacy counsel says, "things that present new info or new ideas should prsent 7-9th grade level"
15:13:11 [wendy]: js: don't know that we can get tehre, but want to try.
15:14:13 [wendy]: js: have been spending a lot of time with this wrt techniques for 3.1
15:14:25 [wendy]: ack wendy
15:15:04 [AliG]: AliG has joined #wai-wcag
15:16:24 [wendy]: wac: bridge between docs - describe more detail? relationship to tech-specific - providing base. relation to checklists and test suites? if really testable, need test files?
15:16:43 [wendy]: ack mich
15:16:49 [wendy]: mc: 1.
15:17:00 [wendy]: mc: creating one example for every tech will be difficult.
15:17:12 [wendy]: js: what does it say if we can't do it?
15:17:32 [Michael]: mc: 1 entry per SC - are some 100% tech specific?
15:18:13 [wendy]: js: (rephrasing) are there any SC that are tech-specific?
15:18:13 [AliG]: q+
15:18:14 [wendy]: ack ben
15:18:41 [wendy]: bc: reading score - when it comes to technical terms at technology-specific level, how does the score...
15:18:47 [wendy]: js: this is a requirement just for general
15:19:01 [wendy]: js: would like to aim for that for other docs, but doubt it for tech-specifics
15:19:23 [wendy]: bc: may not want to set it as goal for self in req doc.
15:19:27 [AliG]: q-
15:19:38 [wendy]: q+ to say "purpose of requirements"
15:20:09 [wendy]: bc: same diverse audience? general techniques may be more appropriate for specific audience. each document in our collection seems to have slightly diff audience.
15:20:11 [wendy]: ack jenae
15:20:28 [wendy]: ja: thinking about examples - there are several in the guidelines, how will we deal with those?
15:20:53 [wendy]: ja: we haven't mapped the examples from the techniques and how to apply techniques to those examples.
15:21:21 [wendy]: js: that's exactly what i was thinking about. run example x from guidelines, through general, through html and css, etc. help bind the documents together.
15:21:28 [wendy]: ack wendy
15:21:28 [Zakim]: wendy, you wanted to say "purpose of requirements"
15:22:11 [AliG]: q+
15:22:19 [Michael]: wac: can include "must", "should", "may" but purpose is for at each stage in Rec track to explain how we met the requirements
15:22:39 [wendy]: ack ali
15:22:39 [Michael]: wac: doesn't mean we can't put things in, just have different "strengths"
15:23:07 [wendy]: ag: testability of general techniques - this idea of one example, could get tricky.
15:23:32 [wendy]: ag: show the gen as part of each tech-specifics. i.e., general incorproated into each of the tech-specifics to elaborate on examples.
15:23:41 [wendy]: js: html tech incorp. general?
15:23:52 [wendy]: ag: when you start to test those, you'll need tech-specific examples.
15:24:38 [Michael]: q+ to say maybe examples can be in a technology is necessary, but further elaborated at tech specific level
15:24:40 [wendy]: ag: html techniques with general applied
15:24:54 [wendy]: js: talking about documents, test files, checklists?
15:24:57 [wendy]: ag: techniques documents
15:25:26 [wendy]: js: what would such a document look like? sounds like saying that general techniques would not be a separate document.
15:25:39 [wendy]: ag: then provide html general techniques, that are testable
15:25:48 [wendy]: js: then replicate the same material in other documents?
15:26:11 [wendy]: ack michael
15:26:11 [Zakim]: Michael, you wanted to say maybe examples can be in a technology is necessary, but further elaborated at tech specific level
15:26:34 [wendy]: mc: maybe we can consider acceptable for examples to be tech-specific in general techniques.
15:26:49 [wendy]: mc: those examples could be further elaborated in the tech-specifics
15:27:17 [wendy]: mc: reluctant to get rid of general techniques, because a lot of discussion went into having them and discovering the need for them.
15:27:42 [wendy]: ag: would need a tech-specific example for every tech you are addressing, could have 50 examples.
15:28:04 [wendy]: mc: not necessarily. all have to do is show examples of good and bad color contrast. in html and css show the coding that leads to that. could just show color swatches.
15:28:29 [wendy]: js: don't see anything wrong with refering to specific technologies in general techniques.
15:28:50 [wendy]: js: already, in 2.4 level 3, there is a SC that says images have structure that users can access. in general tech, it refers to svg.
15:28:52 [AliG]: q+
15:29:24 [wendy]: ack john
15:30:13 [wendy]: js: readability - knew it would be controversial. partly don't care if we don't write it down, but the readability formulas look at sentence length and word length.
15:30:24 [wendy]: js: for english, measured in # of words and syllables/word.
15:30:53 [Zakim]: +Jeremy_Carroll
15:30:55 [wendy]: js: it looks at averages. so, it's not that you can't have long sentences or long words. it's averages.
15:31:37 [wendy]: js: important to make the documents as readable as we can make them - to support translations, readers who aren't familiar, and readers who are familiar with WCAG 1.0.
15:31:41 [Lisa]: Lisa has joined #wai-wcag
15:31:48 [wendy]: js: and we should make the document as accessible as we can.
15:31:50 [AliG]: q-
15:32:01 [wendy]: zakim, Jeremy is Lisa
15:32:01 [Zakim]: +Lisa; got it
15:33:18 [wendy]: mc: obviously, questions about reading levels, testability (what it means for general techs) and examples.
15:33:47 [wendy]: mc: do we like the idea generally of the general techs and where they live (section w/in techspecifics)
15:33:49 [wendy]: ack dav
15:34:14 [Zakim]: +Alex_Li
15:34:24 [wendy]: dmd: ag brings up a good point, there could be some ppl who see html example in general techs and think thse are the html techniques.
15:34:52 [wendy]: dmd: general techs is something that we pass through. not sure that we should have an example for each one to be dogmatic.
15:35:00 [wendy]: dmd: concern that people will read through extra stuff.
15:35:18 [AliG]: q+
15:35:19 [wendy]: dmd: if we keep it separated out, then should link to examples in the tech-specific documents.
15:35:35 [wendy]: ack j
15:36:21 [wendy]: js: re:examples - my guess is that devlopers will spend less time on gen techs than policy makers or trainers.
15:36:46 [wendy]: js: ppl who want gen techs are those for whom not interested in tech-specifics
15:37:02 [wendy]: al: or where we don't have tech-specifics
15:37:05 [wendy]: ack a
15:37:11 [Michael]: q+ to say we have to assume some intelligence on our readers, if we say "tech-specific examples in general techniques are just examples" we should expect them not to take them as dogma
15:37:22 [wendy]: ag: testability - may be overcomplicating.
15:38:13 [wendy]: ag: would need test files
15:38:22 [wendy]: mc: right, do we have test files for gen techs
15:38:31 [wendy]: js: yes. how would that work?
15:38:46 [wendy]: ack m
15:38:46 [Zakim]: Michael, you wanted to say we have to assume some intelligence on our readers, if we say "tech-specific examples in general techniques are just examples" we should expect them not
15:38:49 [Zakim]: ... to take them as dogma
15:39:02 [ben]: q+ to say, "maybe not test files, but testable statements?"
15:39:11 [wendy]: we have to assume some intelligence on our readers, if we say "tech-specific examples in general techniques are just examples" we should expect them not to take them as dogma
15:39:31 [wendy]: mc: we have to assume some intelligence on our readers, if we say "tech-specific examples in general techniques are just examples" we should expect them not to take them as dogma
15:39:48 [wendy]: ack d
15:40:11 [wendy]: dmd: it's not on the table that we inc gen techs into tech-specific, if we were to reexamine that...
15:40:30 [wendy]: dmd: have a central pool and the specific docs would pull from that pool, so that there isn't repetition of work.
15:40:52 [wendy]: ack b
15:40:52 [Zakim]: ben, you wanted to say, "maybe not test files, but testable statements?"
15:41:05 [wendy]: bc: maybe not test files, but testable statements?
15:41:18 [wendy]: bc: the checklist will have a decision tree.
15:41:38 [wendy]: bc: perhaps some of the testable statements (for gen techs) are met by following tests at technology-specific level.
15:41:43 [wendy]: mc: agree
15:41:44 [wendy]: ack j
15:42:30 [wendy]: js: re:possibility of integrating gen into tech-specific: since these will ultimately be in xml, presume possible to write xslt that would pull into tech-specific.
15:42:34 [wendy]: mc: that is possible
15:42:57 [AliG]: q+
15:44:19 [wendy]: mc: propose that we add a section for general techniques in the reqs for techniques checklists, etc.
15:44:33 [wendy]: mc: also propose then incorporate changes to john's proposal and incorporate into that doc
15:45:16 [wendy]: action: john and michael - incorporate changes to gen techs requirements and incorporate those into requirements for WCAG 2.0 Checklists, Techniques, and Test Files
15:45:21 [wendy]: ack a
15:46:52 [wendy]: mc: don't think we should change directions right away, but put an ednote in the req that there is possible issue of where gen tech fits)
15:47:11 [wendy]: ag: additional point - use of vocabulary. could replace general words with tech-specific.
15:47:48 [wendy]: ag: end goal is that they are useful and that people don't need to wade through lots of info.
15:49:37 [wendy]: zakim, close item 1
15:49:37 [Zakim]: agendum 1 closed
15:49:38 [Zakim]: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:49:40 [Zakim]: 2. Requirements for checklists & techniques & test files http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-wcag2-tech-req-20050125.html [from wendy]
15:49:46 [wendy]: zakim, take up item 2
15:49:46 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Requirements for checklists & techniques & test files http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-wcag2-tech-req-20050125.html" taken up [from wendy]
15:50:48 [wendy]: mc: section 6 - test file requirements
15:53:24 [wendy]: q+ to say "must/should"
15:53:26 [wendy]: ack j
15:53:31 [wendy]: ja: compatibility of test files?
15:53:38 [wendy]: ja: compatibilty against browsers/user agents.
15:54:05 [wendy]: ja: "this works in browser A but works in browser B, C, D"
15:54:33 [wendy]: mc: may need to have test cases for browser variations
15:54:42 [wendy]: ja: in metadata, this test will work in these browsers...
15:54:59 [wendy]: ja: result of running the test
15:55:27 [wendy]: mc: perhaps user agent info for techniques move to test files
15:55:30 [wendy]: ack w
15:55:30 [Zakim]: wendy, you wanted to say "must/should"
15:56:06 [Michael]: wac: concern about must have 1 test case for each technique, because of getting through process
15:56:23 [Michael]: wac: might be better to say "should" so lack of test cases doesn't trip us up in Rec process
15:56:38 [Michael]: wac: we can continue to expand test suites after Rec
15:57:01 [wendy]: ack l
15:57:53 [wendy]: ls: granularity - that is vague, in some cases not necessarily helpful. ppl may get lost in granularity. agree that want where makes sense, but shouldn't replace good test case w/something more granular b/c it is priority.
15:58:04 [wendy]: ls: that could trip us up later.
15:58:37 [AliG]: q+
15:58:42 [wendy]: ls: don't know that will have an absolute true/false for each test. is there a way to state limitations of a test.
15:58:54 [wendy]: mc: change granularity to a should?
15:59:02 [wendy]: ls: will do it when it is useful
15:59:10 [wendy]: ls: but if not, then we won't
15:59:27 [wendy]: ls: maybe have a place for limitations or provisos
15:59:30 [wendy]: mc: in metadat?
15:59:34 [ben]: q+
15:59:37 [wendy]: ack
15:59:38 [wendy]: ack a
15:59:52 [wendy]: ag: "test cases must support a testable statement or statements"
16:00:19 [wendy]: ag: in other techs write test statements first then forge test cases.
16:00:28 [wendy]: mc: a test file is a test case?
16:00:49 [wendy]: ag: you've had html test cases in advance, if you hadn't had those, would first have had test statements then found test cases.
16:01:01 [wendy]: mc: is the metadata associated w/test file or testble statement?
16:01:05 [wendy]: ag: test file
16:01:10 [Michael]: q+
16:01:12 [wendy]: ack b
16:01:55 [AliG]: q+
16:01:57 [wendy]: bc: gv suggested that for the first one, "must be provided for every required technique..." so that perhaps dont' worry about for optional techs. only worry about those in checklist.
16:02:01 [wendy]: q+
16:02:08 [wendy]: ack mi
16:02:20 [wendy]: ack a
16:03:02 [wendy]: mc: test files support a testable statement. the metadata is assoc with testable statements.
16:04:14 [AliG]: AG agrees
16:05:45 [Zakim]: -Jenae
16:06:00 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
16:06:17 [wendy]: zakim, Microsoft is Jenae
16:06:17 [Zakim]: +Jenae; got it
16:06:38 [wendy]: ja: ppl use diff terms. we justneed to deterine what means for us and define.
16:06:39 [wendy]: q+
16:06:48 [wendy]: ack q
16:08:36 [wendy]: wac: testable statement is the "root node" and what flows from it are test files and everything else that is combined to form the test case
16:08:51 [wendy]: ack w
16:09:11 [wendy]: mc: perhaps define things better and will make clearer
16:09:58 [wendy]: action: michael write definitions for testable statement, test file, and test case. update draft based on. include other edits as discussed.
16:13:02 [wendy]: wac: each techniques must have a testable statement. each technique should have a test case.
16:13:18 [wendy]: ag: or perhaps don't need test files.
16:13:59 [wendy]: mc: propose that we merge general techs into this. believe that accepted.
16:15:06 [wendy]: http://www.w3.org/2004/04/wcag-charter.html#deliverables
16:15:24 [wendy]: zakim, close this item
16:15:24 [Zakim]: agendum 2 closed
16:15:25 [Zakim]: I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:15:27 [Zakim]: 3. Applicability Conditions http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/0062 [from wendy]
16:15:31 [wendy]: zakim, take up item 3
16:15:31 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Applicability Conditions http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/0062" taken up [from wendy]
16:15:35 [wendy]: zakim, ping in 5 minutes
16:15:35 [Zakim]: ok, wendy
16:15:42 [Zakim]: -John_Slatin
16:15:43 [Zakim]: -David_MacDonald
16:15:45 [Zakim]: -Lisa
16:15:50 [Zakim]: -Ben
16:20:10 [Zakim]: +??P0
16:20:29 [Michael]: zakim, ??P0 is David_MacDonald
16:20:29 [Zakim]: +David_MacDonald; got it
16:20:35 [Zakim]: wendy, you asked to be pinged at this time
16:20:49 [wendy]: zakim, who's on the phone?
16:20:50 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Wendy, Alistair, Alex_Li, Jenae, David_MacDonald
16:20:53 [Zakim]: +??P1
16:20:59 [ben]: zakim, ??P1 is Ben
16:20:59 [Zakim]: +Ben; got it
16:21:40 [Zakim]: +John_Slatin
16:22:02 [wendy]: ag: describes - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/0062
16:22:24 [wendy]: ag: ppl can know w/certainty if tech applies to them or not
16:23:39 [wendy]: mc: e.g. - frame title is applicable if frame is used
16:23:49 [wendy]: q+
16:24:06 [Zakim]: +Tim_Boland
16:24:54 [wendy]: ack w
16:25:11 [ben]: q+
16:25:31 [Michael]: wac: if this checklist oriented, is it mainly metadata?
16:25:36 [wendy]: wac: sounds like metadata used to assemble the checklist
16:25:38 [wendy]: ack b
16:26:08 [wendy]: bc: could be metadata, if techs are compendium of "all things" and some are required other optional. makes sense to expose info to the reader.
16:26:19 [wendy]: q+
16:26:25 [wendy]: ack w
16:26:58 [wendy]: wac: an example where hard to determine if something applies or not?
16:27:12 [wendy]: ack j
16:27:36 [wendy]: js: the checklist of checkpoints (for WCAG 1.0), had applicability statements, "if you use frames..." and groups the relevant checkpoints.
16:27:42 [wendy]: q+
16:28:13 [Michael]: q+
16:28:19 [ben]: q+
16:28:36 [wendy]: ag: w/the 1.0 checklist, have groups. therefore, applicability statement given.
16:28:51 [wendy]: ag: only thing that might be missing is a document that tells youhow to recognize when youhave an item.
16:28:59 [wendy]: ag: how do you know if you have a data table?
16:29:08 [wendy]: ack w
16:30:17 [wendy]: wac: perhaps then by section. techniques are already grouped.
16:30:39 [wendy]: wac: e.g. of data tables, when to apply was to be included int he heading of that section.
16:30:42 [wendy]: ack m
16:31:01 [wendy]: mc: supporting the applicability conditions, in our software we've built applicability into every evaluation.
16:31:23 [wendy]: mc: have found that sometimes the applicability is straight forward. in some cases, less straightforward.
16:31:36 [wendy]: mc: useful to have that spelled out for every technique.
16:31:44 [wendy]: mc: fine it if is metadata and presented or not.
16:31:49 [wendy]: mc: quite important for checklists.
16:32:05 [wendy]: mc: can't assign pass/fail to something that is n/a
16:32:38 [wendy]: q+ to say "at min add applicaibility to dtd"
16:32:41 [wendy]: ack b
16:33:06 [wendy]: bc: summary attribute on tables. whenr eading a technique, "this only applies to data tables..." then maybe people wouldn't use summary in as many goofy ways.
16:33:12 [wendy]: ack w
16:33:12 [Zakim]: wendy, you wanted to say "at min add applicaibility to dtd"
16:33:49 [AliG]: q+
16:35:58 [wendy]: action: wac add applicability condition element after task to dtd (make it optional not required)
16:36:05 [wendy]: ack a
16:36:24 [wendy]: ag: about the term, "applic. conditions" could be one or more statements.
16:36:34 [Michael]: q+
16:36:36 [wendy]: ag: if these 3 statements are yes, then this is applicable.
16:36:43 [wendy]: ack m
16:36:59 [ben]: q+
16:37:17 [wendy]: mc: would not want to have more than one applicability condition / technique. perhaps it has a few clauses.
16:37:22 [wendy]: ag: agrees
16:37:30 [wendy]: ag: one statement and prehaps conditions w/in the statement.
16:37:32 [wendy]: ack b
16:37:51 [wendy]: bc: are there subsets of pplicability conditions? required at level 1, 2... only if using element x... etc.
16:38:01 [wendy]: bc: there might be more than one
16:38:54 [wendy]: <applicability-conditions><conformance-level>x</conformance-level><elements><element>img</element></elements><prose>blah blah thsen aoiuwer</prose></applicability-conditions>
16:39:50 [AliG]: q+
16:40:15 [wendy]: ack a
16:40:40 [Michael]: I propose using <el> instead of <element> because it's already in the xmlspec dtd
16:40:49 [wendy]: ag: some things will relate only if building entire web site. site map only for scope of whole site.
16:41:16 [wendy]: scope: page, site, element
16:41:44 [wendy]: ack t
16:41:50 [wendy]: tb: which technology employed?
16:42:13 [wendy]: tb: could use html or could use xmlw/css. how do applicability conditions relate to technologies?
16:42:40 [wendy]: mc: my view is that the applicabilty to tech comes from the fact that it is an html-techs document.
16:43:13 [wendy]: RRSAgent, make log world
16:43:59 [wendy]: ag: the work re: checklists, supported a lot of the things about what ac would look like,
16:45:40 [wendy]: http://www.accessinmind.com/w3c/HTML14_4.html
16:46:21 [wendy]: http://www.accessinmind.com/w3c/ConceptPage2.html
16:46:55 [wendy]: ag: technology, scope, content
16:49:12 [wendy]: wac: conformance level, content/element, description/prose, scope. technology inherited from document it is in.
16:49:19 [wendy]: zakim, close this item
16:49:19 [Zakim]: agendum 3 closed
16:49:21 [Zakim]: I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:49:23 [Zakim]: 4. Assign reviewers to test files http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/ [from wendy]
16:49:26 [wendy]: zakim, take up item 4
16:49:26 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "Assign reviewers to test files http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/" taken up [from wendy]
16:49:49 [wendy]: mc: there are a lot of existing test files that have not been accepted in a formal way and not official part of test suite (only about 10 tests that are).
16:50:25 [wendy]: mc: hoping to get people to take batches of test files, read them, identify any issues, and send post to the list and propose, "should accept this one" or "discuss this part of this one" or "accept this one with changes xy, z" etc.
16:50:42 [wendy]: dmd: hoping that people will look at them, see if have same problems or acceptance?
16:50:58 [wendy]: mc: yes, reviewer should be as thorough as possible.
16:51:06 [AliG]: q+
16:51:07 [wendy]: tb: what are the metrics for review?
16:52:08 [wendy]: mc: look at test and its metadata. does the test support the technique? does the requirement have the same priority as the technique? is the test workable in the true/false sense? is the requirement in the test is something that should be a requirmeent?
16:52:24 [wendy]: q+ to say, "wording - does it synch with success criteria. vocabulary used in synch"
16:53:06 [wendy]: mc: should alt-text be short? we discussed what was short and if requried.
16:53:28 [Michael]: ack wendy
16:53:28 [Zakim]: wendy, you wanted to say, "wording - does it synch with success criteria. vocabulary used in synch"
16:54:15 [wendy]: wac: additionally: are there any gotchas? anything that will cause contention when goes for public review?
16:54:17 [wendy]: ack a
16:54:34 [wendy]: ag: write testable statement for each technique. then look at the tests and determine how well they are mapping to the testable statements.
16:55:03 [wendy]: mc: may come up with very different statments that what exist.
16:55:12 [wendy]: ag: would see how well the tests map to the techniques.
16:56:45 [ben]: q+
16:58:18 [ben]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2004/11/19-sc-techniques-mapping.html
16:59:29 [wendy]: ack b
16:59:43 [wendy]: dmd: look at technique, then look at the test case
17:01:06 [AliG]: q+
17:01:14 [wendy]: bc: the thing to look for is a reality check. what do our current guideliens and techniques actuallys ay.
17:01:33 [wendy]: dmd: is there one for 1.0?
17:01:33 [Michael]: http://www.w3.org/TR/AERT
17:01:40 [wendy]: mc: closest thing is AERT
17:01:45 [wendy]: mc: no test files
17:07:34 [David_]: '
17:07:37 [David_]: '
17:07:39 [David_]: ''''''"/
17:07:40 [David_]: '
17:07:48 [Zakim]: -Jenae
17:10:38 [wendy]: mc: arranging batches about 6-12
17:10:54 [wendy]: js: requests small batch under input]
17:10:55 [Zakim]: -John_Slatin
17:13:15 [Zakim]: -Tim_Boland
17:13:17 [Zakim]: -Michael_Cooper
17:13:18 [Zakim]: -Alex_Li
17:13:19 [Zakim]: -Wendy
17:13:20 [Zakim]: -Ben
17:13:20 [Zakim]: -Alistair
17:13:22 [Zakim]: -David_MacDonald
17:13:24 [Zakim]: WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended
17:13:25 [Zakim]: Attendees were Michael_Cooper, David_MacDonald, Wendy, John_Slatin, Jenae, Ben, [IPcaller], Alistair, Jeremy_Carroll, Lisa, Alex_Li, [Microsoft], Tim_Boland
17:13:26 [wendy]: alistair - yes, send it! :)
17:13:34 [wendy]: sounds good. happy to hear only 10 tasks that don't map.
17:14:00 [wendy]: Present: Michael_Cooper, David_MacDonald, Wendy, John_Slatin, Jenae, Ben, Alistair, Lisa, Alex_Li, Tim_Boland
17:14:08 [wendy]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:46:11 [wendy]: zakim, bye
17:46:11 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #wai-wcag
17:46:14 [wendy]: RRSAgent, bye
17:46:14 [RRSAgent]: I see 3 open action items:
17:46:14 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: john and michael - incorporate changes to gen techs requirements and incorporate those into requirements for WCAG 2.0 Checklists, Techniques, and Test Files [1]
17:46:14 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/26-wai-wcag-irc#T15-45-16
17:46:14 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: michael write definitions for testable statement, test file, and test case. update draft based on. include other edits as discussed. [2]
17:46:14 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/26-wai-wcag-irc#T16-09-58
17:46:14 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: wac add applicability condition element after task to dtd (make it optional not required) [3]
17:46:14 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/01/26-wai-wcag-irc#T16-35-58