IRC log of ua on 2004-12-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:54:09 [RRSAgent]

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00:54:12 [MattSEA]

rrsagent, make log world

00:54:58 [JRG]

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00:55:39 [MattSEA]

hello

00:57:47 [Zakim]

WAI_UAWG()8:00PM has now started

00:57:53 [Zakim]

+??P0

00:58:00 [JRG]

Hi Matt

00:59:00 [Zakim]

-??P0

00:59:01 [Zakim]

WAI_UAWG()8:00PM has ended

00:59:02 [Zakim]

Attendees were

01:00:35 [JRG]

Matt I am on the phone if you want tot talk

01:01:50 [JRG]

who is here?

01:02:41 [mcmay_]

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01:03:07 [mcmay_]

zakim, this is wai_ua

01:03:07 [Zakim]

ok, mcmay_; that matches WAI_UAWG()8:00PM

01:03:10 [korn]

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01:03:12 [mcmay_]

zakim, who's here?

01:03:12 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P0, ??P1, Matt, DPoehlman, Susan_Crayne, Peter_Korn

01:03:14 [Zakim]

On IRC I see korn, mcmay_, JRG, RRSAgent, Zakim, MattSEA

01:03:23 [Zakim]

-DPoehlman

01:04:33 [Zakim]

+ +1.402.466.aaaa

01:05:22 [Zakim]

+DPoehlman

01:07:53 [mcmay_]

I'll type it into IRC

01:08:18 [mcmay_]

I may be in Japan for the Tuesday of the Tech Plenary, then to Boston Wednesday.

01:09:19 [dpoehlman]

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01:09:20 [mcmay_]

Weds is the Plenary day

01:10:23 [mcmay_]

jg: Weds is when the group gets together to discuss general W3C technology

01:11:24 [kyle]

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01:11:51 [mcmay_]

pk: Not sure of the value or how many people to send

01:12:40 [mcmay_]

jg: Reason to meet with PFWG is to talk about DHTML and navigation to new formats. Might be useful for Sun people to get involved.

01:14:26 [Zakim]

-DPoehlman

01:14:40 [dpoehlman]

I read and commented. I'll be back on the phone shortly.

01:15:19 [Zakim]

+DPoehlman

01:15:55 [mcmay]

pk: item navigation is crucial. perhaps the best way to do that is crucial.

01:16:02 [mcmay]

zakim, who's making noise?

01:16:15 [Zakim]

mcmay, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P1 (31%), Susan_Crayne (66%), Peter_Korn (85%)

01:16:48 [mcmay]

pk: Believe that much of what can be done should be done in JavaScript. Trying to make explicit that navigation is important.

01:16:52 [mcmay]

zakim, mute Susan

01:16:52 [Zakim]

Susan_Crayne should now be muted

01:16:58 [mcmay]

zakim, unmute susan

01:16:58 [Zakim]

Susan_Crayne should no longer be muted

01:17:03 [mcmay]

zakim, mute ??p1

01:17:03 [Zakim]

??P1 should now be muted

01:17:31 [mcmay]

pk: Sun is stating that we are doing certain work in this phase, and the rest of the work should be done by someone in JavaScript layer.

01:17:59 [mcmay]

pk: We have a bug list in Section 12 which notes what aspects of keyboard nav function in Mozilla head, what in Sun branch, what are not functioning.

01:18:25 [mcmay]

pk: We've posted a build of the Sun branch as a source tarball.

01:19:12 [mcmay]

pk: also talking with accessibility contacts at Red Hat.

01:19:20 [mcmay]

zakim, unmute p1

01:19:20 [Zakim]

sorry, mcmay, I do not see a party named 'p1'

01:19:24 [mcmay]

zakim, unmute ??p1

01:19:24 [Zakim]

??P1 should no longer be muted

01:19:26 [dpoehlman]

kyle might be muted.

01:20:22 [mcmay]

kyle: iframe is different from form control.

01:20:35 [mcmay]

jg: What about links in the document rendered in iframe?

01:21:29 [dpoehlman]

kyle is producing an echo.

01:21:35 [JRG]

http://cita.disability.uiuc.edu/mozilla/ts-test-page-iframe.html

01:22:34 [mcmay]

pk: We need to figure out what the behavior is for links within an iframe.

01:24:04 [mcmay]

jg: IE treats iframes as part of the doc. Don't know about Opera.

01:28:40 [mcmay]

pk: Could cause a race condition with a scroll when it moves up into an iframe.

01:29:12 [mcmay]

pk: What guidance is appropriate to UAs on this?

01:29:18 [mcmay]

jg: I think PF wants to discuss this.

01:29:37 [mcmay]

jg: In general, the design criteria would be not to use absolute positioning. But if using float and clear, then doc order would work.

01:32:17 [mcmay]

jg: What does WCAG say about floating content?

01:32:28 [mcmay]

mm: CSS suggests using float and clear.

01:32:37 [mcmay]

jg: What about fixed items along the edge?

01:32:42 [mcmay]

mm: Not sure there's a decision on that.

01:35:02 [mcmay]

jg: So document order may be the best strategy.

01:38:54 [dpoehlman]

q+ to ask about frames vs entire document nav?

01:39:15 [mcmay]

jg: What are you doing with tab?

01:39:32 [mcmay]

pk: We're talking about how to navigate into and out of an applet, for example.

01:40:00 [mcmay]

jl: There are some HTML widgets other than forms

01:40:32 [mcmay]

jl: Example of widget is textarea.

01:42:11 [mcmay]

dp: When you tab through a page and nav to a form control, test says that if you're to the right of an element, you're in the label. So the next tab takes me into the edit box, or I have to right-arrow into it?

01:44:58 [mcmay]

dp: Multiline edits?

01:45:07 [mcmay]

pk: That's a textarea. We don't have that in our example.

01:46:05 [mcmay]

pk: If you're in a form control that's eating the tabs, you have a special character to get out of that.

01:46:21 [mcmay]

jg: In Moz, hitting enter doesn't submit the form. Might in IE, but not in Moz.

01:48:17 [mcmay]

dp: Why does it say space to highlight and enter to activate it? Not sure I want to have to do that.

01:49:10 [mcmay]

pk: In GTK+, space equals click.

01:49:58 [mcmay]

ky: Space should actuate it.

01:51:22 [mcmay]

dp: In the document, Ctrl+Home goes to top of frame, Ctrl+End goes to bottom. I need to go from top-left of document to bottom-right corner of doc. I suggested Shift-Ctrl-Home and End, but Ctrl-PgUp and PgDn could do that.

01:51:32 [mcmay]

dp: If there's reasoning for this, I'm interested.

01:51:46 [mcmay]

pk: General reasoning is that each frame is its own little world and its own complete document.

01:55:20 [mcmay]

dp: I don't want to lose the ability to go all the way to the top/bottom of the document.

01:56:00 [mcmay]

jg: A lot of systems like WebCT and Blackboard have 7-11 frames, sometimes nested.

02:00:27 [mcmay]

pk: I think start and end of frame is very important.

02:00:45 [mcmay]

tr: I'd like to have both frame and master document.

02:01:12 [mcmay]

pk: Can David and Travis propose some keystrokes?

02:01:29 [mcmay]

dp: Every time I think of something, I realize it's used.

02:02:02 [mcmay]

dp: Ctrl-Home to top of frame, and up arrow twice to top of doc?

02:03:44 [mcmay]

jg: Meet Jan 5?

02:04:24 [dpoehlman]

q-

02:05:20 [dpoehlman]

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02:06:48 [Zakim]

-??P0

02:06:50 [Zakim]

-Peter_Korn

02:06:51 [Zakim]

-DPoehlman

02:06:53 [Zakim]

-Susan_Crayne

02:06:57 [Zakim]

-Matt

02:06:58 [Zakim]

- +1.402.466.aaaa

02:06:59 [Zakim]

WAI_UAWG()8:00PM has ended

02:07:00 [Zakim]

Attendees were Matt, DPoehlman, Susan_Crayne, Peter_Korn, +1.402.466.aaaa

02:07:09 [kyle]

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