IRC log of wai-wcag on 2004-11-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 21:02:04 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:02:23 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 21:02:23 [Zakim]
- sorry, Yvette_Hoitink, I don't know what conference this is
- 21:02:24 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Becky, Yvette_Hoitink, ChrisR, wendy
- 21:02:31 [bengt]
- bengt has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:02:33 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, this is WAI_WCAG()
- 21:02:33 [Zakim]
- ok, Yvette_Hoitink; that matches WAI_WCAG()4:00PM
- 21:02:35 [Zakim]
- +Wendy
- 21:02:42 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 21:02:45 [bcaldwell]
- bcaldwell has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:02:49 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 21:02:53 [Zakim]
- +John_Slatin
- 21:02:56 [wendy]
- zakim, [Microsoft] is Mike
- 21:02:56 [Zakim]
- +Mike; got it
- 21:03:01 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 21:03:03 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P12 is Lisa_Seeman
- 21:03:03 [Zakim]
- +Lisa_Seeman; got it
- 21:03:04 [Zakim]
- +??P13
- 21:03:10 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, [Microsoft] is Mike_Barta
- 21:03:10 [Zakim]
- sorry, Yvette_Hoitink, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft]'
- 21:03:21 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 21:03:21 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P0, +1.267.983.aaaa, ??P4, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Lisa_Seeman, John_Slatin, ??P8, ??P13
- 21:03:31 [bengt]
- muterd
- 21:03:33 [wendy]
- zakim, who's making noise?
- 21:03:44 [Zakim]
- wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P4 (19%), Wendy (14%)
- 21:03:44 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, ??P13 is Bengt_Farre
- 21:03:46 [Zakim]
- +Bengt_Farre; got it
- 21:03:48 [wendy]
- zakim, mute ??P4
- 21:03:48 [Zakim]
- ??P4 should now be muted
- 21:03:55 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, mute bengt
- 21:03:55 [Zakim]
- Bengt_Farre should now be muted
- 21:04:15 [bengt]
- zakim, ??P8 is Bengt_Farre
- 21:04:15 [Zakim]
- +Bengt_Farre; got it
- 21:04:16 [wendy]
- zakim, unmute ??P4
- 21:04:16 [Zakim]
- ??P4 should no longer be muted
- 21:04:23 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 21:04:23 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P0, +1.267.983.aaaa, ??P4, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Lisa_Seeman, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre.a, Bengt_Farre (muted)
- 21:04:25 [bengt]
- zakim, mute me
- 21:04:26 [Zakim]
- 'bengt' is ambiguous, bengt
- 21:04:32 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P0 is David
- 21:04:32 [Zakim]
- +David; got it
- 21:04:35 [bengt]
- zakim, I am bengt_Farre
- 21:04:35 [Zakim]
- ok, bengt, I now associate you with Bengt_Farre
- 21:04:37 [bengt]
- zakim, mute me
- 21:04:37 [Zakim]
- Bengt_Farre was already muted, bengt
- 21:04:51 [wendy]
- zakim, +1.267 may be Neil
- 21:04:51 [Zakim]
- +Neil?; got it
- 21:04:51 [bengt]
- zakim, I am bengt_Farre.a
- 21:04:52 [Zakim]
- ok, bengt, I now associate you with Bengt_Farre.a
- 21:04:55 [bengt]
- zakim, mute me
- 21:04:55 [Zakim]
- Bengt_Farre.a should now be muted
- 21:05:07 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P4 is Kerstin
- 21:05:07 [Zakim]
- +Kerstin; got it
- 21:05:14 [bengt]
- I am p8 !
- 21:05:16 [Zakim]
- +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
- 21:05:25 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 21:05:25 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see David, Neil?, Kerstin, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Lisa_Seeman, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre.a (muted), Bengt_Farre (muted),
- 21:05:28 [Zakim]
- ... Loretta_Guarino_Reid
- 21:05:38 [bcaldwell]
- that's the problem
- 21:05:40 [bcaldwell]
- yes, we're here
- 21:05:53 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 21:05:53 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see David, Neil?, Kerstin, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Lisa_Seeman, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre.a (muted), Bengt_Farre,
- 21:05:56 [Zakim]
- ... Loretta_Guarino_Reid
- 21:05:57 [Zakim]
- -Bengt_Farre
- 21:05:59 [wendy]
- zakim, who's talking?
- 21:06:06 [Zakim]
- +??P13
- 21:06:09 [Zakim]
- wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Loretta_Guarino_Reid (9%), JasonWhite (4%)
- 21:06:15 [Zakim]
- +Matt
- 21:06:16 [David]
- David has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:06:21 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P13 is Michael_Cooper
- 21:06:21 [Zakim]
- +Michael_Cooper; got it
- 21:06:37 [David]
- test
- 21:06:38 [gregg]
- gregg has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:06:43 [wendy]
- zakim, Lisa is Gregg_and_Ben
- 21:06:43 [Zakim]
- +Gregg_and_Ben; got it
- 21:06:48 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 21:06:48 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see David, Neil?, Kerstin, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Gregg_and_Ben, John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre.a (muted), Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
- 21:06:51 [Zakim]
- ... Michael_Cooper, Matt
- 21:06:58 [cgi-irc]
- cgi-irc has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:07:07 [gregg]
- q?
- 21:07:14 [wendy]
- ack lisa
- 21:07:39 [wendy]
- bengt - please press 41# on your phone
- 21:07:44 [bengt]
- I am not onlie
- 21:07:57 [bengt]
- trying to call back
- 21:08:04 [wendy]
- zakim, Bengt is Lisa
- 21:08:04 [Zakim]
- +Lisa; got it
- 21:08:06 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, who's on the phone
- 21:08:06 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who's on the phone', Yvette_Hoitink
- 21:08:09 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 21:08:09 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see David, Neil?, Kerstin, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, Alex_Li, JasonWhite, Wendy, Mike, Gregg_and_Ben, John_Slatin, Lisa (muted), Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
- 21:08:12 [Zakim]
- ... Michael_Cooper, Matt
- 21:08:14 [Zakim]
- +??P15
- 21:08:15 [Michael]
- Michael has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:08:23 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P15 is Bengt
- 21:08:23 [Zakim]
- +Bengt; got it
- 21:08:27 [wendy]
- zakim, mute Bengt
- 21:08:27 [Neil]
- Neil has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:08:29 [Zakim]
- Bengt should now be muted
- 21:08:33 [Michael]
- zakim, I am Michael_Cooper
- 21:08:33 [Zakim]
- ok, Michael, I now associate you with Michael_Cooper
- 21:09:42 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, mute me
- 21:09:42 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
- 21:11:43 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- q+
- 21:11:50 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, unmute me
- 21:11:50 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
- 21:12:14 [gregg]
- ack y
- 21:14:04 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, mute me
- 21:14:04 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
- 21:15:37 [wendy]
- TTF summary ala Michael: approved publication of techniques documents - with changes, discussed test suites/test files.
- 21:17:13 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, unmute me
- 21:17:13 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
- 21:18:59 [Kesh]
- Kesh has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:19:53 [Kesh]
- hello ... is this working?
- 21:20:19 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- hi Kesh
- 21:20:23 [Kesh]
- hey,
- 21:20:24 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- Kesh = Justine?
- 21:20:30 [Kesh]
- "Sheshtin" yes
- 21:20:33 [Kesh]
- :-)
- 21:20:37 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- a, ok
- 21:20:51 [Kesh]
- GV: 1.2 is what we are looking at ...
- 21:21:16 [Kesh]
- GV: we should be able to get feedback this way. we are on to the next item: conformance
- 21:21:29 [Kesh]
- ben: baseline and conformance
- 21:21:38 [Kesh]
- gv: baseline is in conformance section.
- 21:21:58 [Kesh]
- becky: need a link
- 21:22:09 [Kesh]
- gv: shawn's document needs a link
- 21:22:22 [Kesh]
- wendy: provided link, but not incorporated -- will find that ..
- 21:22:48 [Kesh]
- js: EO page is empty for wcag
- 21:22:54 [Kesh]
- wendy: captured that already
- 21:23:01 [Kesh]
- gv: any more commnets
- 21:23:21 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, mute me
- 21:23:21 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
- 21:23:30 [Kesh]
- wendy: the change I made to eo, I left link, and then after that put in note "start with starting resource"
- 21:23:35 [Kesh]
- gv: 2.2, moving on
- 21:23:52 [Kesh]
- dm: 1.4 there is a period missing after one sentence
- 21:24:12 [Kesh]
- 1.4 very first benefit, first sentence last paragraph
- 21:24:23 [Kesh]
- gv: search for "visual representation of information"
- 21:24:27 [Kesh]
- wendy: been caught
- 21:24:33 [Kesh]
- gv: 2.2:
- 21:25:04 [Kesh]
- gv: note that the guideline is time limits, first sc is timeouts, and then moves on to time limits
- 21:25:11 [Kesh]
- js: is that a problem?
- 21:25:19 [Kesh]
- gv: no - just noting it.
- 21:25:34 [Kesh]
- gv: question whether guideline is timeout or not -- answer was no from past.
- 21:25:43 [Kesh]
- gv:just highlighting
- 21:25:54 [Kesh]
- gv: 2.3 any questions?
- 21:26:44 [Kesh]
- gv: by the way, as a warning, pattern has turned out to be an international issue, so we will reflect it in the guidelines
- 21:26:54 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- q+
- 21:27:00 [Kesh]
- gv: in new guidelines, the US flag no longer violates it.
- 21:27:00 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, unmute me
- 21:27:00 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
- 21:27:26 [Kesh]
- folks, who is doing the queue?
- 21:27:52 [Kesh]
- wendy: when you say "pattern" -- spatial pattern
- 21:28:07 [Kesh]
- gv: internation guidelines for spacial pattern -- we can just take it out
- 21:28:45 [Kesh]
- wendy: everything in this definition goes away completely and is replaced by a note?
- 21:28:57 [Kesh]
- gv: yes, all the way down to
- 21:29:41 [Kesh]
- yh: the guidelines 2, level 1, sc 1 (2.3) it says 'is marked in way that the user ...' needs ..
- 21:30:01 [Kesh]
- gv: thanks to proofreaders ... a lot of edits have been caught.
- 21:30:10 [Kesh]
- yh: the text that it links to has the same error
- 21:30:12 [Kesh]
- gv: got
- 21:30:13 [Kesh]
- it
- 21:30:33 [Kesh]
- wendy: is marked in a way that the user ....
- 21:30:35 [Kesh]
- gv: 2.3?
- 21:30:39 [Kesh]
- gv: 2.4?
- 21:30:52 [Kesh]
- gv: all right
- 21:30:58 [Kesh]
- gv: 2.5 -- any questions?
- 21:31:24 [Kesh]
- gv: try and think of something for level 1 for 2.5 for a thanksgiving assignment to everyone -- through markup, or stuff like that?
- 21:31:46 [Kesh]
- gv: we are on to techniques -- sir gallahad
- 21:32:17 [Kesh]
- Michael Cooper you're on.
- 21:32:37 [Kesh]
- are you there, Michael?
- 21:33:01 [bengt]
- micahael !!
- 21:33:17 [bengt]
- if I spell it right :)
- 21:33:29 [bengt]
- first word is name it pings
- 21:33:42 [Kesh]
- Michael
- 21:33:48 [Kesh]
- Michael!!
- 21:34:07 [Kesh]
- gv: does anyone have any problems with current html tech doc?
- 21:34:36 [Kesh]
- kesh -- graceful degradation out?
- 21:36:02 [Kesh]
- wendy: yes, it has been removed. graceful and degrade do not appear in html techniques -- graceful transform ..
- 21:36:11 [Kesh]
- wendy: I can change the task
- 21:36:34 [Kesh]
- gv: what are we changing?
- 21:36:43 [Kesh]
- wendy: that makes sense?
- 21:37:30 [Kesh]
- gv: with the stylesheet
- 21:38:37 [Kesh]
- kesh: just want to add comment that pages working without scripting and/or css is still not ok with me.
- 21:38:51 [Kesh]
- kg: graceful transformation issue -- comment, so we can move on.
- 21:39:10 [Kesh]
- gv: we are kind of operating under the assumption that UA supports scripting ...
- 21:39:18 [Kesh]
- gv: we still have some questions to work out around that.
- 21:39:39 [Kesh]
- gv: scripting -- other than this same issue
- 21:39:45 [Kesh]
- gv: any questions on general techniques?
- 21:39:52 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, unmute me
- 21:39:52 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette_Hoitink
- 21:39:57 [Kesh]
- dm: I filed some bugs, but not for today.
- 21:40:12 [Kesh]
- js: lots of bugs, will need an overhaul.
- 21:40:17 [Kesh]
- yh: not fond of layout
- 21:40:30 [Kesh]
- yh: difficult to navigate -- doesn't make sense. mailed it out today.
- 21:40:46 [Kesh]
- yh: i didn't include ALL problems, 'cause could not be fixed in this draft.
- 21:40:53 [Kesh]
- yh: very redundant.
- 21:41:10 [Kesh]
- yh: is this just a test to see how this works, or is this really the way we want this document to be
- 21:41:38 [Kesh]
- ben: this is first time we have reviewed with wg -- it's an evolving thing; I am working with your comments -- how we use the
- 21:41:47 [Kesh]
- ... markup is still under construction
- 21:42:04 [wendy]
- degrade gracefully is fixed: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-CSS-TECHS-20041119/#absolute-positioning
- 21:42:30 [Kesh]
- js: I would like to see us get to a point where we do not require a user of our guidelines to understand all of our decisions about organization
- 21:42:54 [Kesh]
- js: but we are not quite ready for that design challenge, 'cause content is not there. but I agree with yvette.
- 21:43:07 [Kesh]
- yh: so that's a challenge for us
- 21:43:18 [Kesh]
- ben: that's first time I have gotten feedback -- so that is good.
- 21:43:30 [Kesh]
- yh: I was new to it, first time trhough all together.
- 21:43:34 [Kesh]
- q?
- 21:43:39 [Kesh]
- q- Y
- 21:43:56 [Kesh]
- gv: we have hit the end of the agenda --ready to ship
- 21:43:57 [Zakim]
- +??P2
- 21:44:02 [Kesh]
- gv: anyone have any other topics?
- 21:44:47 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, ??P2 is Gian
- 21:44:47 [Zakim]
- +Gian; got it
- 21:46:22 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- q+
- 21:46:59 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- q+ to say "http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-HTML-TECHS-20041116/Overview.html#WCAG20 is a dead link"
- 21:47:18 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- zakim, unmute me
- 21:47:18 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette_Hoitink
- 21:47:55 [Kesh]
- wendy: as of right now, 1.2 is specifically related to audio and video
- 21:48:20 [Kesh]
- wendy: and we should change the definition to reduce confusion
- 21:48:42 [Kesh]
- wendy" the main question was does anyone on the call has any general concerns or we are heading in the wrong direction, please let us know
- 21:48:52 [Kesh]
- gv: need to say 'as used in this standard
- 21:52:25 [Kesh]
- gv: calling it:
- 21:52:48 [Kesh]
- gv: multimedia for the purpose of this guideline is an audio-visual presentation
- 21:53:06 [Kesh]
- can someone minute for me -- I need to go potty? :-)
- 21:53:08 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- ack john
- 21:53:30 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- sure, I'll do it
- 21:53:39 [Kesh]
- thanks, Yvette. I will be right back.
- 21:53:42 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- ack y
- 21:53:42 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink, you wanted to say "http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-HTML-TECHS-20041116/Overview.html#WCAG20 is a dead link"
- 21:54:39 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- yh: there is a dead link
- 21:54:54 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- wc: that is correct, they are links to documents that will be published tomorrow
- 21:55:07 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- wc: we need to link to the dated URI
- 21:56:57 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- jw: suggestion for editors: give priority to terms that are least well known
- 21:57:21 [David]
- +q
- 21:57:24 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- jw: terms that are specialist terms are more likely to be checked and at least need to exist
- 21:57:30 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- q+ david
- 21:57:41 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- ack jason
- 21:58:02 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- jw: Thanks to Wendy and Gregg for work in last days
- 21:58:07 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- jw: *cheer*
- 21:58:14 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- ack lore
- 21:58:18 [wendy]
- thanks to ben!!!
- 21:58:26 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- s/Gregg/Ben
- 21:58:39 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- lgr: we now hold plugins to higher standards to browsers?
- 21:58:52 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- scribe apologizes to Ben :-)
- 21:59:04 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- ack david
- 21:59:39 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- david: 'information and
- 21:59:50 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- david: 'information' and 'functionality' should be defined
- 21:59:58 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- gv: anything else?
- 22:00:04 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- all: *silence*
- 22:01:03 [Kesh]
- thanks Yvette
- 22:01:08 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- gv: reward: get off 30 minutes early :-)
- 22:01:14 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- np
- 22:01:17 [Kesh]
- gv: anything else to add?
- 22:01:25 [Kesh]
- gv: I would like to thank all those who have reviewed
- 22:01:50 [Kesh]
- gv: thanks to proofreaders, reading ahead, and Ben and Wendy for all of the key-pounding they have been doing
- 22:02:00 [Kesh]
- gv: thanks to Michael for techniques moving forward
- 22:02:07 [Kesh]
- gv: no meeting next week
- 22:02:15 [Kesh]
- gv: it's turkey day in the US
- 22:02:24 [Kesh]
- gv: but week after -- twice as fast
- 22:02:57 [Kesh]
- jason: gv can be something big and difficult on the agenda to get us all thinking.
- 22:03:01 [Zakim]
- -Mike
- 22:03:05 [bengt]
- :)
- 22:03:08 [bengt]
- bye
- 22:03:08 [Zakim]
- -Matt
- 22:03:09 [Zakim]
- -Kerstin
- 22:03:09 [Zakim]
- -Alex_Li
- 22:03:10 [Zakim]
- -Gian
- 22:03:10 [ChrisR]
- multimedia - review of John Water's film 'Polyester', filmed in "odorama" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082926/
- 22:03:11 [Zakim]
- -Gregg_and_Ben
- 22:03:11 [Zakim]
- -Becky_Gibson
- 22:03:11 [Kesh]
- gv: everybody, enjoy, relax, and get to work
- 22:03:12 [Zakim]
- -Wendy
- 22:03:13 [Zakim]
- -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
- 22:03:15 [Zakim]
- -John_Slatin
- 22:03:17 [Zakim]
- -JasonWhite
- 22:03:19 [Zakim]
- -David
- 22:03:19 [Kesh]
- bye all!
- 22:03:21 [Zakim]
- -Neil?
- 22:03:22 [ChrisR]
- ChrisR has left #wai-wcag
- 22:03:23 [Zakim]
- -Yvette_Hoitink
- 22:03:23 [wendy]
- zakim, make log world
- 22:03:24 [Kesh]
- Kesh has left #wai-wcag
- 22:03:25 [Zakim]
- -Bengt
- 22:03:27 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'make log world', wendy
- 22:03:29 [Zakim]
- -Lisa
- 22:03:30 [wendy]
- rrsagent, make log world
- 22:03:47 [Yvette_Hoitink]
- Yvette_Hoitink has left #wai-wcag
- 22:03:49 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Cooper
- 22:03:50 [Zakim]
- WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
- 22:03:51 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +1.267.983.aaaa, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, JasonWhite, Alex_Li, Wendy, John_Slatin, Mike, Lisa_Seeman, Bengt_Farre, David, Neil?, Kerstin, Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
- 22:03:53 [Zakim]
- ... Matt, Michael_Cooper, Gregg_and_Ben, Lisa, Bengt, Gian
- 22:03:55 [wendy]
- zakim, bye
- 22:03:55 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #wai-wcag
- 22:03:59 [wendy]
- RRSAGent, bye
- 22:03:59 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items