IRC log of swbp on 2004-09-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:57:04 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swbp
17:57:16 [Ralph]
Meeting: SemWeb Best Practices and Deployment WG
17:57:28 [Ralph]
17:57:32 [Zakim]
SW_BPD()2:00PM has now started
17:57:40 [Zakim]
17:57:45 [Ralph]
Chair: Guus
17:57:58 [Ralph]
Previous: 2004-09-02
17:58:35 [Zakim]
17:58:50 [Zakim]
+Andreas_Harth (was ??P5)
17:59:36 [Zakim]
18:00:02 [guus]
guus has joined #swbp
18:00:18 [Zakim]
18:00:24 [TomAdams]
zakim, Tucana is TomAdams
18:00:24 [Zakim]
+TomAdams; got it
18:00:25 [Tbaker]
Tbaker has joined #swbp
18:00:32 [Zakim]
+ +49.308.1.aaaa
18:00:32 [Zakim]
18:00:48 [Zakim]
+Tom_Baker (was +49.308.1.aaaa)
18:01:20 [Fabien]
Fabien has joined #swbp
18:02:10 [aharth]
aharth has joined #swbp
18:02:22 [aharth]
Zakim, help
18:02:22 [Zakim]
Please refer to for more detailed help.
18:02:24 [Zakim]
Some of the commands I know are:
18:02:25 [Zakim]
xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
18:02:27 [Zakim]
if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
18:02:29 [Zakim]
xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
18:02:31 [Zakim]
I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
18:02:33 [Zakim]
xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
18:02:35 [Zakim]
xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
18:02:37 [Zakim]
who's here? - lists the participants on the phone
18:02:39 [Zakim]
who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted
18:02:41 [Zakim]
mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
18:02:43 [Zakim]
unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
18:02:45 [Zakim]
is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
18:02:47 [Zakim]
list conferences - reports the active conferences
18:02:48 [Zakim]
this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx
18:02:49 [Zakim]
excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel
18:02:50 [Zakim]
I last learned something new on $Date: 2004/08/19 13:48:08 $
18:02:51 [Zakim]
18:02:56 [Fabien]
zakim, [Sophia] is Fabien
18:02:56 [Zakim]
+Fabien; got it
18:03:58 [Ralph]
Regrets: Natasha, Brian, Jos, Alistair, Deb, David, Gary, Libby, Jeremy
18:04:08 [guus]
zakim, who is here?
18:04:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, Andreas_Harth, Ralph, TomAdams, Tom_Baker, Evan_Wallace, Fabien (muted)
18:04:10 [Zakim]
On IRC I see aharth, Fabien, Tbaker, guus, RRSAgent, Zakim, Ralph, TomAdams
18:05:05 [Ralph]
Scribe: Ralph
18:05:14 [Ralph]
zakim, next agendum
18:05:14 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Administrivia" taken up [from Ralph]
18:05:47 [Ralph]
PROPOSED: accept as record of previous meeting
18:06:10 [Ralph]
18:06:31 [Ralph]
PROPOSED next telecon 30 Sep 1400 UTC
18:06:48 [Ralph]
ACTION: Guus send e-mail about telecon attendance, as it's getting low
18:06:59 [Ralph]
TomA: regrets for 30 Sep
18:08:04 [Ralph]
ACTION: Ralph post his attendance analysis ('good standing' record) to the list
18:08:27 [Ralph]
RESOLVED next telecon 30 Sep 1400 UTC
18:09:10 [Ralph]
ACTION: Guus send email to Brian and Jeremy to create a local information page for FtF
18:09:21 [Ralph]
ACTION: Ralph create a WBS registration page for the FtF
18:09:51 [Ralph]
zakim, next agendum
18:09:51 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Action Item Review" taken up [from Ralph]
18:09:56 [Ralph]
ACTION David Contact Ben in regard to coordinating RDF in XHTML TF
18:10:03 [Ralph]
18:10:14 [Ralph]
ACTION Gary look at DAWG's request and post comments to mailing list
18:10:18 [Ralph]
18:10:31 [Ralph]
ACTION Jeremy to review XSD FNO and SCD documents.
18:10:37 [Ralph]
18:10:40 [Ralph]
ACTION Jeremy to add XSD FNO and SCD documents to TF reference list.
18:10:41 [Ralph]
18:10:45 [Ralph]
ACTION Jeremy to check semantics on DAWG use of XSD in abstract query model.
18:11:00 [Ralph]
ACTION Guus: ping Jeremy about XSD actions
18:11:13 [Ralph]
zakim, next agendum
18:11:13 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Community Feedback" taken up [from Ralph]
18:11:20 [BenBooth]
BenBooth has joined #swbp
18:11:38 [Ralph]
-> SWBP Community Feedback [David 2004-09-13]
18:11:56 [Ralph]
Guus: David distilled some comments from (outside) meetings he recently attended
18:12:34 [Ralph]
Evan: partOf was on our list of patterns at one time
18:12:40 [Zakim]
18:13:29 [Ralph]
Guus: yes, Chris Welty wanted to do partOf, though perhaps to a greater detail than is suggested by David's item 2
18:13:53 [Ralph]
... I would like OEP to take this up
18:13:58 [Ralph]
Evan: agree
18:14:33 [BenBooth]
yes - Ben here
18:14:53 [TomAdams]
This was one of the conferences Dave was making comments after:
18:14:59 [Ralph]
zakim, [webMethods] is Ben_Booth
18:14:59 [Zakim]
+Ben_Booth; got it
18:15:49 [BenBooth]
Second actually - but may as well be the first.
18:16:12 [Ralph]
Guus: doing something more concrete for lat/lon might be welcomed
18:18:03 [Ralph]
Ralph: might also be done in APP TF if there is something existing that we could simply cite
18:18:20 [Ralph]
Evan: thought we talked about this and decided not to go that route specifically for units & measures
18:19:08 [Ralph]
Evan: point 4 from David's mail sounds like exactly where examples are what's needed
18:19:50 [Ralph]
Guus: Usability is another request for more examples
18:20:46 [Ralph]
Evan: what does the 'geeky' comment mean?
18:22:17 [Ralph]
Ralph: my sense was that this was a request for more basic materials; the problems addressed by our current notes are perhaps things that new adoptees of RDF&OWL are not yet facing
18:22:53 [Ralph]
Guus: I also hear community feedback requesting help on linking metdata to multimedia
18:24:06 [Ralph]
Ralph, TomA: tutorial page can serve to cite basic how-to materials also
18:24:21 [Ralph]
TomA: also talked with some folk putting satellite data into RDF
18:25:11 [Ralph]
... they might be a source for more information and examples
18:25:18 [Ralph]
... particularly for non-textual metadata
18:25:28 [Ralph]
... may be a generic use case
18:26:33 [Ralph]
zakim, next agendum
18:26:33 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Web Architecture Draft" taken up [from Ralph]
18:27:09 [Ralph]
-> Comments to Web Arch WD due 17 Sep [David 2004-09-10]
18:30:41 [Ralph]
Ralph: perhaps Pat or Jos would like to craft a WG comment
18:30:51 [Ralph]
ACTION: Guus contact Pat and Jos about Web Arch comments
18:30:55 [Ralph]
zakim, next agendum
18:30:55 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "ODM/UML Ontology Profile" taken up [from Ralph]
18:31:39 [Ralph]
[Ralph: as the Web Arch comment deadline is tomorrow, the polite way to proceed if we were to ask for an extension is to send mail before the deadline saying we expect to comment soon]
18:32:20 [Ralph]
-> more on the status of the OMG ontology specification [Evan 2004-09-13]
18:32:40 [Ralph]
Evan: the document that several e-mails have cited is a combined set of comments on the UML draft
18:33:12 [Ralph]
... no mapping has actually been produced yet
18:33:37 [Ralph]
... at least 3 submitter groups are working on mappings; "MOF Query Views and Transformations"
18:34:44 [Ralph]
... next OMG meeting is in November [same week as our FtF]; would be useful to have input from SWBP
18:35:58 [Ralph]
Guus: I want to study ODM in more depth, but my impression is that it would be useful for SWBP to comment on it
18:37:14 [Zakim]
18:37:18 [Ralph]
Evan: it may be that this group's concern might be more in the mappings but we should look at the metamodel too
18:37:54 [Ralph]
Guus: I am willing to be one reviewer
18:38:11 [BenBooth]
I would be willing to assist (UML experience)
18:38:13 [Ralph]
ACTION Guus: ask the WG for a second reviewer for ODM
18:38:22 [Ralph]
thanks, Ben
18:38:43 [Ralph]
Guus: Ben's offer accepted
18:38:58 [Ralph]
Evan: ask Gary Ng too
18:39:45 [Ralph]
Evan: I looked over the models in June and was quite happy with them
18:39:45 [Zakim]
18:40:13 [Ralph]
zakim, [webMethods] is Ben_Booth
18:40:13 [Zakim]
+Ben_Booth; got it
18:40:24 [Ralph]
BenB: happy to work with someone in an assistance role
18:41:17 [Ralph]
ACTION: BenB read ODM documents
18:41:40 [Ralph]
[Ralph notes the nice symmetry between Tom[AB] and Ben[AB]
18:41:51 [Ralph]
zakim, next agendum
18:41:51 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "RDF/TopicMaps" taken up [from Ralph]
18:42:05 [Ralph]
Guus: it would be nice to start this work in the next month
18:42:12 [Ralph]
zakim, close this agendum
18:42:12 [Zakim]
agendum 6 closed
18:42:13 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
18:42:14 [Zakim]
7. TF Updates [from Ralph]
18:42:14 [Ralph]
zakim, next agendum
18:42:14 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "TF Updates" taken up [from Ralph]
18:42:25 [Ralph]
Topic: OEP
18:42:31 [Ralph]
[no one present]
18:42:36 [Ralph]
Topic: Port
18:42:51 [Ralph]
Guus: comments requested on Alistair's update
18:43:11 [Ralph]
-> [PORT] ftf goals [Alistair 2004-09-13]
18:43:30 [Ralph]
Tpic: WordNet
18:43:34 [Ralph]
[Aldo not present]
18:43:47 [Ralph]
Topic: Vocab Management
18:44:30 [Ralph]
TomB: telecon scheduled for tomorrow, 17-Sep 1400 UTC
18:44:51 [Ralph]
... sent a questionnaire to TF; need more responses
18:45:24 [Ralph]
... have been concerned about the scope of the TF; don't want to take on more than we can accomplish
18:45:57 [Ralph]
-> [VM] Scoping Draft with questions to TF members [TomB 2004-09-02]
18:46:22 [Ralph]
TomB: I would like to recommend using Dublin Core practice to focus discussion
18:46:46 [Zakim]
18:46:54 [Ralph]
... e.g. Andy Powell just posted [to Dublin Core] a set of guidelines for assigning identifiers
18:47:02 [Tbaker]
18:47:19 [Ralph]
-> [VM] Guidelines for assigning identifiers to terms [TomB 2004-09-16]
18:47:22 [Zakim]
18:47:37 [Ralph]
TomB: Andy Powell's document covers many of the issues I'd like the VM TF to address
18:47:55 [Ralph]
zakim, webMethods is Ben_Booth
18:47:55 [Zakim]
+Ben_Booth; got it
18:48:37 [Ralph]
TomB: I'm concerned about the size of the task and the current volume of the [TF] response
18:51:16 [Ralph]
Guus: the chairs' guide, The Art of Consensus, turns out not to be a 'document' but a page with lots of links. This turns out to be very useful and a model that could be emulated.
18:51:56 [Ralph]
TomB: having something recognized in a Best Practice note from W3C would be useful
18:52:42 [Ralph]
... for example, the Dublin Core namespace policy is very accessible and could be endorsed by SWBPD
18:52:53 [Ralph]
... I want to break out topics that the WG could own
18:54:15 [Ralph]
... selecting a range of practices, describing those practices w/advantages and disadvantages
18:55:40 [Ralph]
Guus: I agree with Tom's approach -- focus on things that are out there
18:57:18 [Ralph]
TomB: my approach was to break out a few topics for the TF members to comment on
18:57:32 [Ralph]
... my bias is to write short things that are understandable by non-experts
18:57:44 [Ralph]
... need some commitment from the TF participants
18:58:24 [Ralph]
... may reduce the scope even more in order to get comments from the TF
19:00:53 [Ralph]
Ralph: good to use the issues identified by deployment groups such as Dublin Core to drive our priorities
19:01:56 [Ralph]
Guus: nudge people on the list to provide feedback
19:03:59 [Ralph]
ACTION TomB: nudge VM TF participants to provide feedback
19:04:25 [Ralph]
Topic: HTML TF
19:08:59 [TomAdams]
19:09:19 [Tbaker]
Tom clarifies for the record that "endorsement" of things like DCMI Namespace Policy is not sought - rather recognition as one instance of good practice
19:12:08 [Ralph]
ACTION Ralph: ask WG for feedback on requirement to embed RDF/XML markup in an XHTML document
19:12:41 [Ralph]
[Ralph summarized Tuesday 7-Sep HTML TF telecon]
19:12:44 [TomAdams]
19:12:53 [Ralph]
Topic: Tutorial Page
19:13:13 [Ralph]
TomA: received some suggested additions [0071.html]
19:13:29 [Ralph]
... we had agreed to use www-archive
19:14:09 [Ralph]
... is it bad form to repost something sent privately to me to that archive?
19:14:23 [Ralph]
Ralph: yes, bad form; better to ask the sender to repost
19:14:32 [Ralph]
Topic: ADTF
19:14:34 [Fabien]
The blog on applications and demos is slowly growing:
19:14:36 [Fabien]
19:14:36 [Ralph]
[no representative present]
19:16:58 [Ralph]
Guus: Task Forces should be able to use the Thursday WG telecon slot [on alternate weeks]
19:18:02 [Ralph]
19:18:05 [Zakim]
19:18:06 [Zakim]
19:18:07 [Zakim]
19:18:09 [Zakim]
19:18:10 [Zakim]
19:18:10 [Zakim]
19:18:11 [Zakim]
19:18:15 [Zakim]
19:18:27 [Zakim]
SW_BPD()2:00PM has ended
19:18:28 [Zakim]
Attendees were Guus_Schreiber, Andreas_Harth, Ralph, [Tucana], TomAdams, Evan_Wallace, Tom_Baker, Fabien, Ben_Booth, [webMethods]
19:18:36 [Ralph]
rrsagent, bye
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
I see 10 open action items:
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus send e-mail about telecon attendance, as it's getting low [1]
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph post his attendance analysis ('good standing' record) to the list [2]
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus send email to Brian and Jeremy to create a local information page for FtF [3]
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph create a WBS registration page for the FtF [4]
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to ping Jeremy about XSD actions [5]
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus contact Pat and Jos about Web Arch comments [6]
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to ask the WG for a second reviewer for ODM [7]
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: BenB read ODM documents [8]
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: TomB to nudge VM TF participants to provide feedback [9]
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph to ask WG for feedback on requirement to embed RDF/XML markup in an XHTML document [10]
19:18:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in