IRC log of dawg on 2004-09-16
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 08:11:57 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #dawg
- 08:18:37 [DanC_lap]
- Zakim this is DAWG
- 08:18:41 [DanC_lap]
- Zakim, this is DAWG
- 08:18:41 [Zakim]
- sorry, DanC_lap, I do not see a conference named 'DAWG' in progress or scheduled at this time
- 08:18:48 [DanC_lap]
- q+
- 08:18:50 [DanC_lap]
- q-
- 08:20:05 [kendall]
- In attendance: DanC, EricP, SteveH, Yoshio, Jean-FrancoisB, KendallC, JanneS, JosDeRoo, DaveB, AndyS
- 08:21:25 [kendall]
- Also: Dirk-W.vanGulik, AlbertoR
- 08:22:34 [DanC_lap]
- agenda requests: tests? implementations? should show up in due course...
- 08:24:07 [DanC_lap]
- --- naming, marketing, intro, abstract
- 08:24:14 [DanC_lap]
- DaveB: Data Access for RDF: Query. DARQ
- 08:24:22 [kendall]
- marketing talk
- 08:24:36 [DanC_lap]
- (there are tools that will help if we do...)
- 08:24:36 [kendall]
- abstract needs to be a seller, since it's the only thing many people will ever see
- 08:24:46 [DanC_lap]
- Topic: naming, marketing, intro, abstract
- 08:25:14 [kendall]
- googlemark possible for "DARQ"
- 08:27:09 [kendall]
- dirk worries that not having "ql" means it's a bit harder to market corporately
- 08:27:26 [DanC_lap]
- DaveB: DARQL could work
- 08:27:53 [DaveB]
- pronounced "darkle"@en-uk
- 08:28:15 [kendall]
- too many name changes could be problematic
- 08:30:55 [AndyS]
- Current: DARQ & DARP; DARQL, DAQL
- 08:31:09 [AndyS]
- and RAQL/RAQP, SWQL, BRQL, RQL, BARQ
- 08:31:17 [kendall]
- we're gonna do a naming poll, apparently
- 08:31:24 [DaveB]
- -1 to RQL as too generic for me
- 08:31:40 [DanC_lap]
- ACTION EricP: set up a naming poll
- 08:31:47 [AlbertoR]
- AlbertoR has joined #dawg
- 08:33:56 [DanC_lap]
- DanC: buzzwords: aggregation, distributed systems
- 08:34:12 [DanC_lap]
- Kendall: query language for the Semantic Web. Dirk: yeag
- 08:34:14 [DanC_lap]
- yeah
- 08:36:00 [JFBaget]
- JFBaget has joined #dawg
- 08:37:12 [DanC_lap]
- Kendall: if we could take the intro of the use cases document and turn it around to be positive... that could work
- 08:38:51 [kendall]
- Janne suggests that we ape the way SQL is pitched
- 08:39:06 [JanneS]
- http://www.w3schools.com/sql/sql_intro.asp
- 08:40:07 [DanC_lap]
- DaveB: ... easy access to data... for programmers
- 08:40:26 [DaveB]
- s/to data/to rdf data/
- 08:40:33 [kendall]
- ACTION KendallC: work on an abstract for the spec
- 08:41:55 [kendall]
- Let's talk DAWG services...
- 08:42:11 [kendall]
- +2 from KendallC
- 08:43:24 [kendall]
- DanC shows off some ideas for DAWG-powered services
- 08:43:30 [kendall]
- TAG last call comments thingie
- 08:45:10 [DaveB]
- showing http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004lc/
- 08:47:58 [kendall]
- many interesting data access services won't do arbitrary graph matches in DanC's opinion
- 08:48:08 [ericP]
- GET -H "Accept: application/rdf+xml" http://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/search?keywords=webarch
- 08:48:33 [kendall]
- the protocol design should (eventually -- no, sooner :>) be able to tell clients what sorts of queries it can handle
- 08:48:50 [kendall]
- which gets several +1s from members
- 08:49:30 [dirkx]
- dirkx has joined #dawg
- 08:49:34 [AlbertoR]
- curl --header "Accept: application/rdf+xml" http://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/search?keywords=webarch
- 08:51:18 [ericP]
- for N3, GET -H "Accept: text/x-n3" http://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/search?keywords=webarch
- 08:52:08 [DaveB]
- DanC - annotea, link to blog world somewhat?
- 08:52:16 [kendall]
- more service ideas: get annotea to do trackbacks using dawg queries, powering the media access use case, for example
- 08:52:28 [ericP]
- annotea server http://iggy.w3.org/annotations
- 08:53:46 [ericP]
- one with a DARQ input field: http://192.6.10.139/annotations2~
- 08:53:47 [DaveB]
- kendall we have walking tours of the District of Columbia (USA)
- 08:53:59 [ericP]
- one with a DARQ input field: http://192.6.10.139/annotations
- 08:54:00 [DaveB]
- .. would like to have clients be able to submit queries to that data
- 08:54:25 [kendall]
- creation commons search engine
- 08:55:14 [DaveB]
- RobS arrives
- 08:55:17 [kendall]
- ACTION KendallC: talk to creative commons people about this stuff
- 08:56:07 [DaveB]
- alberto - newsblender demo
- 08:56:13 [DaveB]
- (offline today)
- 08:56:49 [DaveB]
- searching news as calendar
- 08:57:04 [kendall]
- ACTION KendallC: expose our walking tour data to darq querying clients
- 08:57:08 [DaveB]
- multiple stores
- 08:57:09 [AlbertoR]
- http://demo.asemantics.com/rdfstore/rdql/
- 08:57:50 [AndyS]
- http://jena.hpl.hp.com:2020/books?lang=RDQL&query=SELECT%20?x%20WHERE%20(%3Chttp://example.org/book/book2%3E%20?p%20?o)
- 08:57:52 [AlbertoR]
- http://new.asemantics.com/index.pl (offline at the moment can return RDF/XML, iCal, N-Triples)
- 08:58:32 [DaveB]
- braces and brackets
- 08:58:40 [DaveB]
- braces={} brackets=() ?
- 08:59:24 [kendall]
- SteveH has 15M triples of CS (??) stuff that will be darq'able at some point
- 08:59:39 [DaveB]
- I can add brql to http://www.redland.opensource.ac.uk/contexts?command=rdf-query in a few minutes
- 09:00:17 [dirkx]
- DaveB: My worry is to make sure that we also have negative test cases; as otherwise vendors (like us) will essentially do what big customers expect; and make things as close to what their 100.000 ODBC programmers expect. So in not time you'll be forced to accept (' in place of '{' to get the monkeys of your back..
- 09:00:28 [dirkx]
- So do have negative test cases if this is what we really want!
- 09:00:54 [DanC_lap]
- DanC: I'm going to XML 2004. could present "these things are RDF services from DAWG participants... will interoperate soon (if not already)"
- 09:01:20 [SteveH]
- UK computer science data: http://cs.aktivespace.org/rdql/ - and UI: http://triplestore.aktors.org/SemanticWebChallenge/CSAKTiveSpace/
- 09:01:34 [kendall]
- SteveH: thanks
- 09:02:09 [kendall]
- Snarky comment of the day, candidate 1: "H1, learn to use H1"
- 09:06:00 [AndyS]
- http://jena.hpl.hp.com:2020/books?lang=fetch&r=http://example.org/book/book2
- 09:06:10 [AndyS]
- That's a describe-like query
- 09:06:25 [AndyS]
- It gets the object (book) and the author details
- 09:06:37 [kendall]
- DaveB: a part of the foaf world can go up as a public demo
- 09:08:05 [AlbertoR]
- http://www.asemantics.com/rdflets/
- 09:10:01 [AlbertoR]
- RDFLets http://www.asemantics.com/rdflets/rdflets.txt
- 09:11:15 [ericP]
- LiSci demo http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/perl/modules/W3C/Rdf/test/ToxicAssoc0.alg?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
- 09:13:01 [kendall]
- Other presentation venues: ISWC 04, W3 LifeSci workshop, XML 04, publish something on an O'Reilly site
- 09:13:13 [DaveB]
- lifsci http://www.w3.org/2004/07/swls-cfp.html
- 09:13:18 [DaveB]
- deadline for papers, yesterday :)
- 09:13:43 [AlbertoR]
- RDFLets: simple RDF based template system which takes as input a RDQL (BRQL?) query, RDF data source and XSLT - the XSLT is applied over the RDF-for-XML (http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/RDF-XML.html) result of the query over the RDF data.
- 09:15:49 [AlbertoR]
- E.g. http://www.asemantics.com/rdflets/news/ ( which is behind the http://www.asemantics.com/n/news/ page) - see query and template - data is FROM RDF/XML URL
- 09:16:06 [libby]
- libby has joined #dawg
- 09:16:54 [kendall]
- The BRQL spec review portion of our show begins now...
- 09:18:13 [kendall]
- Talking now about structure of test cases
- 09:18:55 [DaveB]
- AndyS shows http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/README.html
- 09:22:19 [ericP]
- andy, is http://www.w3.org/2003/03/rdfqr-tests/recording-query-results.html actively following the changes to the schema?
- 09:22:27 [DaveB]
- see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/
- 09:22:30 [DanC_lap]
- let's look at "A few simple tests" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0426.html
- 09:23:52 [DanC_lap]
- DaveB: ... problem... I had to have uri-scraping knowledge... which is just wrong
- 09:25:03 [AlbertoR]
- http://www.w3.org/2003/03/rdfqr-tests/rdf-query-testcases.html
- 09:25:25 [AlbertoR]
- (see Classes - RDF/XML, N-Triples and so on)
- 09:28:16 [kendall]
- Test stuff needs additional work
- 09:28:54 [Yoshio]
- re:comparison but, it is not that easy when bnodes are involved, I guess
- 09:29:01 [AlbertoR]
- still points out previoud work already done for SquishQL/RDQL testing - http://www.w3.org/2003/03/rdfqr-tests/summary.html (thanks to Libby/DanBri for summarising)
- 09:29:24 [AlbertoR]
- s/previoud/previous/
- 09:33:19 [Yoshio]
- * N3 as vulgar Latin compared to the holy RDF/XML?
- 09:33:21 [AndyS]
- q+
- 09:36:02 [DanC_lap]
- ack andys
- 09:38:01 [JosD]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0426.html
- 09:41:00 [kendall]
- (back on test case stuff: will using the existing xml result set format, which is admittedly not optimized, tie us to the unoptimized version much?)
- 09:47:41 [kendall]
- Conversation about variable prefix choices:
- 09:47:44 [kendall]
- ?foo
- 09:47:45 [kendall]
- $foo
- 09:47:47 [kendall]
- or both?
- 09:48:09 [kendall]
- Main motivation for $foo seems to be to avoid massively installed base of (admittedly) buggy software for stuff like jdbc/odbc (?)
- 09:48:21 [kendall]
- Main motivation for ?foo seems to be momentum
- 09:48:22 [ericP]
- just to be goofy, i added "| 'ñ' Identifier" and it worked
- 09:48:40 [kendall]
- (I hope that's a fair representation, since I sort of care about this.)
- 09:48:49 [DaveB]
- existing rdf query (table, select) results can be and are returned through DBI, *ODBC
- 09:49:05 [Yoshio]
- ericP? I can't read your expression
- 09:49:56 [AlbertoR]
- $foo would allow right the way to ship DAWG/BRQL queries over *existing* DBC interfaces and already deploied software e.g. run DAWG queries inside a M$ Excel spreadsheet
- 09:49:57 [ericP]
- yoshio, you probably need to tell your irc client to use utf-8. i used the ever-popular enya symbol to indicate variables
- 09:50:11 [Yoshio]
- I'm sorry, but I can't
- 09:50:38 [rob]
- rob has joined #dawg
- 09:50:49 [rob_]
- rob_ has joined #dawg
- 10:00:25 [Yoshio]
- I didn't know she has a famous symbol, like Prince. : )
- 10:02:13 [kendall]
- Hmm, it's been pointed out that my summary -- "buggy software" -- isn't particularly accurate. Oh well, ignore at yr leisure.
- 10:27:49 [dirkx]
- AlbertoR: not just DBC; also consider things like IDE's (some of them give you an error when you type somehting which looks like SQL but aint) OR code where the java, c or c++ is pre-prossed by some sql processor - and having both SQL and Java makes it a pain.
- 10:29:17 [dirkx_]
- dirkx_ has joined #dawg
- 10:29:31 [DanC_lap]
- --- resume from break
- 10:29:41 [DanC_lap]
- EricP: I'm ambivalent on ? or $ [or both?]
- 10:30:00 [DanC_lap]
- AndyS: I see some expectation from our semweb audience for ?foo. on the wire syntax matters
- 10:30:12 [kendall]
- Jos agrees re: ?
- 10:30:15 [kendall]
- as do I
- 10:30:22 [rob_]
- Is it worth going for consenus on just having one and not both?
- 10:30:23 [DanC_lap]
- EricP: not both
- 10:31:11 [DaveB]
- DanC let the editor's consider it
- 10:31:25 [DanC_lap]
- ACTION DirkX: provide details about DB interfaces, re ? and $
- 10:31:52 [dirkx_]
- Dirk Will send list with usual suspects which are troublesome; postgress, oracle, dbi, jdbc, odbc and the connections to java, perl, c++ et.al.
- 10:32:20 [DaveB]
- 2.4
- 10:33:41 [Yoshio]
- q+ to ask (re 2.3) if one can join triples with ";" like in N3?
- 10:38:02 [DaveB]
- missing . at end of where { triples . }
- 10:38:09 [DaveB]
- is optional, ISSUE
- 10:38:13 [ericP]
- agenda?
- 10:38:28 [ericP]
- let's just use the agenda for these issues
- 10:38:38 [ericP]
- agenda + missing . at end of where { triples . }
- 10:41:05 [DaveB]
- pls add defn "RDF term"
- 10:42:44 [DaveB]
- 2.2
- 10:43:15 [ericP]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/#intro introduces Propositions and Assertions
- 10:44:04 [DaveB]
- people like accepting RDF term
- 10:44:10 [DaveB]
- defining
- 10:44:17 [ericP]
- kendall, specifically
- 10:45:18 [DaveB]
- JF - why distinction between query variable and rdf variables?
- 10:45:31 [kendall]
- er, i will accept it as written, now. :>
- 10:45:39 [DaveB]
- AndyS - query variables have different range (graph)
- 10:46:50 [DaveB]
- if you want to make mathematical defns, please help out
- 10:46:56 [DaveB]
- by sending some text to the editors
- 10:49:04 [DaveB]
- Yoshio: a query variable is not a name
- 10:49:15 [DaveB]
- DanC: the defn of query variable does not constrain anythihng
- 10:49:33 [kendall]
- AndyS: "An RDF Term is a member of the set formed by the union of U, L, V, and B."
- 10:49:34 [DaveB]
- discussion of definitions standing alone, or with forward referecnes
- 10:50:01 [DaveB]
- for myself, RDF Term is one of (RDF URI Reference, RDF Literal, RDF bnode or Query Variable)
- 10:50:34 [kendall]
- DaveB: yes, that's what my language is supposed to mean. I agree.
- 10:50:46 [dirkx_]
- "A query variable is a name assinged to a graph"
- 10:54:33 [DaveB]
- Alberto - noted B used for bnods and bindings
- 10:54:40 [DaveB]
- andys changed it to BNODES
- 10:54:53 [DaveB]
- AndyS - mapping for bindings includes allowing variables binding to variables
- 10:55:23 [DaveB]
- VAR(b) and VAL(b)
- 10:56:18 [AlbertoR]
- Alberto: noted that the definition of binding B is a function from V to A - but A contains V already - wondered if correct
- 10:57:06 [JFBaget]
- JFBaget has joined #dawg
- 10:58:08 [DaveB]
- AndyS changes RDF Terms to be just Union (RDF URi referneces, literals, bnodes)
- 10:58:39 [DaveB]
- questiion about Var(b) what is b?
- 11:01:03 [DaveB]
- discussion of definition of Binding
- 11:01:48 [DaveB]
- RobS reminds us about binding and binding sets previously discussed
- 11:02:20 [DaveB]
- "set of bindings"
- 11:02:23 [DaveB]
- has precedence
- 11:02:53 [kendall]
- in UC&R 3.2
- 11:03:12 [DaveB]
- AndyS defines 'Binding' as a pair
- 11:03:37 [rob_]
- A binding is a pair x,y where x is a variable and y is an RDF term.
- 11:04:12 [DaveB]
- DanC suggests "A substitution" as the name for a "set of bindings"
- 11:04:51 [kendall]
- Definition: A substitution is a finite set (possibly empty) of pairs of the form Xi=ti, where Xi is a variable and ti is a term, and Xi\neq Xj for every i \neq j, and Xi does not occur in tj, for any i and j.
- 11:05:02 [kendall]
- -- from http://burks.brighton.ac.uk/burks/pcinfo/progdocs/plbook/logic.htm
- 11:06:04 [DaveB]
- DanC - trying to introduce by example and have the math
- 11:06:08 [DaveB]
- nearby
- 11:07:08 [DaveB]
- get sec 2 done tonight & tests for review tomorrow?
- 11:07:26 [kendall]
- ACTION AndyS: fix def'ns in sect 2
- 11:07:44 [DaveB]
- ... up to 2.2
- 11:10:48 [DaveB]
- tests discussion
- 11:10:48 [JanneS]
- Zakim, to ask about binding structure in detail
- 11:10:48 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'to ask about binding structure in detail', JanneS
- 11:10:49 [SteveH]
- q+ to talk about BRQL syntax
- 11:10:54 [DaveB]
- re http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/
- 11:11:00 [DaveB]
- editing data, results, query
- 11:11:08 [DaveB]
- if agreeing to test, agree to all the syntax
- 11:11:16 [JanneS]
- q+ to ask about binding structure
- 11:11:57 [DaveB]
- kendall concerned about the xml result binding
- 11:12:08 [DaveB]
- in the README?
- 11:12:31 [DaveB]
- other document
- 11:12:46 [DanC_lap]
- ack yoshio
- 11:12:46 [Zakim]
- Yoshio, you wanted to ask (re 2.3) if one can join triples with ";" like in N3?
- 11:12:56 [DaveB]
- Yoshio 2.3
- 11:13:16 [DaveB]
- n3 manner lines seperated by .
- 11:13:47 [DaveB]
- would like to see that in there
- 11:13:57 [DaveB]
- notational convienence, less chars to write
- 11:13:59 [DaveB]
- like N3
- 11:14:09 [DaveB]
- q+
- 11:14:13 [kendall]
- (to follow up: the xml language for returning result sets is not part of the test mechanism)
- 11:14:14 [DaveB]
- ... peopel expect that
- 11:15:02 [DaveB]
- Yoshi, wanted to add a ;
- 11:15:07 [DaveB]
- as used in N3
- 11:15:14 [DaveB]
- new syntax
- 11:15:31 [ericP]
- q+ to bring up bnodes
- 11:15:54 [DaveB]
- as well as ,
- 11:16:15 [DaveB]
- Yoshi supports ;, .
- 11:16:49 [DaveB]
- straw poll re ; summary 5ish for, 4ish against
- 11:17:06 [DaveB]
- alberto, don't like the syntax at all
- 11:17:18 [DaveB]
- the n3 bits
- 11:17:49 [DaveB]
- robS doesn't like n3, not an xml syntax
- 11:18:11 [rob_]
- not that i don't like it; i think it sends a very bad message about interoperability
- 11:18:26 [DaveB]
- q?
- 11:18:38 [DaveB]
- EricP - people think it's n3, can do other stuff
- 11:18:43 [DaveB]
- might think that
- 11:18:56 [DaveB]
- bnodes might also be expected
- 11:19:23 [DaveB]
- info - rdql doesn't allow bnodes in queries, sort of
- 11:19:56 [DaveB]
- straw poll on , - 4ish for, 5ish against
- 11:20:49 [DaveB]
- q?
- 11:20:54 [AlbertoR]
- q+
- 11:21:15 [DaveB]
- stay tuned for editor's response
- 11:21:20 [DanC_lap]
- ack steve
- 11:21:20 [Zakim]
- SteveH, you wanted to talk about BRQL syntax
- 11:21:26 [DanC_lap]
- q+ yoshio
- 11:21:33 [DaveB]
- SteveH - round brackets liked
- 11:21:44 [AlbertoR]
- +1
- 11:21:52 [DaveB]
- and don't think the {}s like n3 work well, too much like n3
- 11:22:13 [DaveB]
- parenthese () around each triple - liked
- 11:22:21 [DaveB]
- (s p o ) (s2 p2 o2)
- 11:22:31 [DaveB]
- RobS also agreed
- 11:22:59 [DaveB]
- and no outer braces
- 11:23:11 [DaveB]
- (SteveH) but don't mind them
- 11:23:45 [DaveB]
- dirkx - least surprise works here for the (s p o) form
- 11:23:53 [DaveB]
- SteveH - rdql users use this, familioar
- 11:24:13 [DaveB]
- AlbertoS - existing rdql impls have converged on syntax mostly like this
- 11:24:35 [DaveB]
- AlbertoS supports no n3 syntax, round ()s for nesting and don't use .
- 11:24:42 [DaveB]
- usign AND for constraings
- 11:24:58 [DaveB]
- where (s p o ) AND ... constriants
- 11:25:24 [kendall]
- there's been rather a lot, from my p.o.v.
- 11:25:56 [DaveB]
- AlbertoS - how people mostly write queries today is RDQL, such as on jena lists
- 11:26:04 [DanC_lap]
- (is "the jena mailing list" unambiguous?)
- 11:26:09 [DaveB]
- ... PREFIX
- 11:26:12 [DaveB]
- jena-dev I assume
- 11:26:36 [DanC_lap]
- are there other jena lists?
- 11:26:39 [DaveB]
- AlbertoS - n3 syntax - ; , . {}s and bits
- 11:26:52 [DaveB]
- yes, there's a jena list on sourceforge, mostly for the developers
- 11:27:24 [ericP]
- q?
- 11:27:26 [DaveB]
- JosD - might conflict with some potential list syntax (not presently in the query language)
- 11:27:29 [AlbertoR]
- PREFIX first can be fine - but the syntax should be RDQL like PREFIX foo FOR <http://bar.com/> and PREFIX FOR <http://default/>
- 11:27:31 [DanC_lap]
- alberto, which jena lists did you have in mind?
- 11:27:46 [AlbertoR]
- jena-dev
- 11:28:09 [DaveB]
- AndyS - heard from people that there was no diff between constraints and triple patterns, didn't see why they were separate syntaxes
- 11:28:20 [DaveB]
- ... 2) nesting and applied to diff graphs (see tucana0
- 11:28:28 [DaveB]
- ... 3) seen no complaints on list
- 11:28:42 [Yoshio]
- q+ to propose use of []'s for bnodes... expecting few supports(?)
- 11:29:57 [ericP]
- all those ()s are NOISY
- 11:29:58 [DaveB]
- are we using the queue or should I jump ion?
- 11:30:23 [DanC_lap]
- Zakim, close the queue
- 11:30:23 [Zakim]
- ok, DanC_lap, the speaker queue is closed
- 11:30:26 [DanC_lap]
- ack janne
- 11:30:26 [Zakim]
- JanneS, you wanted to ask about binding structure
- 11:30:37 [DaveB]
- JanneS binding structures
- 11:31:05 [DaveB]
- looking at ?title = "BRQL tutorial"
- 11:31:09 [DaveB]
- data t yping info
- 11:31:13 [DaveB]
- should be in the test cases
- 11:31:16 [DaveB]
- is this an xsd:string
- 11:31:22 [DaveB]
- AndyS - no it's an RDF literal
- 11:31:28 [DaveB]
- would like datatyping info in the client
- 11:31:43 [DanC_lap]
- ack daveb
- 11:31:50 [DaveB]
- should we go to the xml lang issue
- 11:32:00 [DaveB]
- AndyS it's an rdf literal, so has it
- 11:32:03 [AlbertoR]
- ack Alberto
- 11:33:12 [DaveB]
- RoBS suggests adding a test example with an interger result, a decimal example
- 11:33:14 [ericP]
- RobS: adding and example that had a number would make it clear that literals have data types
- 11:33:22 [dirkx_]
- Example; use 2.499,95 or 1,000.00 :-)
- 11:33:36 [DaveB]
- JanneS all the query results seem to have no datatypes
- 11:33:45 [DanC_lap]
- ack daveb
- 11:34:35 [DanC_lap]
- daveb: query syntax should be regular; no abbreviations ala N3 ; nor ,
- 11:34:38 [AlbertoR]
- DaveB: supports the non N3-alike syntax
- 11:34:46 [DanC_lap]
- ack ericp
- 11:34:46 [Zakim]
- ericP, you wanted to bring up bnodes
- 11:34:59 [DanC_lap]
- ack yoshio
- 11:34:59 [Zakim]
- yoshio, you wanted to propose use of []'s for bnodes... expecting few supports(?)
- 11:35:22 [DaveB]
- prep for lunch, dinner
- 11:37:42 [DaveB]
- lunch till 14:00 UK time
- 11:37:45 [DaveB]
- ---
- 12:34:24 [DanC_lap]
- DanC_lap has joined #dawg
- 12:40:01 [Yoshio]
- Yoshio has joined #dawg
- 12:48:07 [kendall]
- kendall has joined #dawg
- 12:48:53 [DanC_lap]
- RRSAgent, pointer?
- 12:48:53 [RRSAgent]
- See http://www.w3.org/2004/09/16-dawg-irc#T12-48-53
- 12:49:00 [DanC_lap]
- RRSAgent, make logs world-access
- 12:57:30 [AndyS]
- AndyS has joined #dawg
- 13:02:04 [rob]
- rob has joined #dawg
- 13:02:04 [rob_]
- rob_ has joined #dawg
- 13:03:16 [AndyS]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf3-brs
- 13:04:07 [AndyS]
- Plan for the evening : WG + anyone else @Chillis (bottom of Park Street) @8pm
- 13:04:54 [DanC_lap]
- scribe: janne
- 13:05:19 [DanC_lap]
- taking another look at the agenda http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf3-brs#agenda
- 13:06:20 [DanC_lap]
- RESOLVE to accept 7Sep telcon minutes, ammended to show Farrukh present
- 13:06:22 [JanneS]
- accepted 7-Sep teleconf minutes with amendments from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0482.html
- 13:06:32 [AlbertoR]
- AlbertoR has joined #dawg
- 13:07:35 [JanneS]
- starting to go through issues in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues
- 13:10:25 [JanneS]
- background: goal to have 1st WD on of design in September 2004
- 13:12:27 [JanneS]
- by last call we should have all issues resolved (last call target on January 2005)
- 13:12:55 [kendall]
- Re: tomorrow's agenda item about 4.6, I wrote an email:
- 13:12:56 [kendall]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0491.html
- 13:13:05 [kendall]
- which I claim satisfies my action:
- 13:13:12 [kendall]
- ACTION Kendall: Pester Aditya about scheme/metascheme query support re: SWOOP
- 13:13:17 [kendall]
- ah, argh :>
- 13:15:16 [JanneS]
- kendall: are we really in a hurry to push this in 1 year instead of 2 years
- 13:15:36 [JanneS]
- DanC: yes, let's try standardize what was already on the market when the group started
- 13:17:53 [JanneS]
- DaveB: w.r.t source feature: implemented it, it works.
- 13:18:37 [JanneS]
- DaveB: still puzzled by bNodes, URIs are ok
- 13:19:04 [AndyS]
- q+
- 13:19:10 [JanneS]
- q+ to how null values are reported
- 13:19:22 [DanC_lap]
- Zakim, open the speaker queue
- 13:19:22 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'open the speaker queue', DanC_lap
- 13:19:46 [JanneS]
- q+ to how null values are reported
- 13:20:16 [kendall]
- relevant section of the spec is the first section 9
- 13:20:29 [kendall]
- "9 Querying the Origin of Statements"
- 13:20:32 [JFBaget]
- JFBaget has joined #dawg
- 13:20:54 [JanneS]
- DaveB: examples 9.1 and 9.2 from the BRQL V1.55 were implemented
- 13:20:55 [DanC_lap]
- Zakim, open the queue
- 13:20:55 [Zakim]
- ok, DanC_lap, the speaker queue is open
- 13:20:55 [Yoshio]
- * Oops, we have two 9s
- 13:21:19 [JanneS]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#source
- 13:21:31 [JanneS]
- q+ to how null values are reported
- 13:21:53 [AndyS]
- q+ to comment on quads
- 13:23:11 [AlbertoR]
- q+
- 13:23:28 [DanC_lap]
- q+ to ask if the definitions cover SOURCE
- 13:23:57 [shellac]
- shellac has joined #dawg
- 13:25:02 [DanC_lap]
- q+ to ask for clarification about two 9s and 9.1
- 13:25:56 [JanneS]
- EricP: remembering Tucana folks need further comparison of the source variable (Steve needs this, too)
- 13:26:04 [dirkx]
- dirkx has joined #dawg
- 13:26:34 [Yoshio]
- q+ to ask what is meant by "SOURCE ?s clause is ignored", the subsequent triple is ignored? or it is processed as if it appears without SOURCE ?s ?
- 13:27:06 [kendall]
- It would help *a lot* if "9 \\\\\\\
- 13:27:08 [kendall]
- argh
- 13:27:09 [kendall]
- sorry
- 13:27:41 [JanneS]
- SteveH: source ?s (?s dc:creator 'Steve') can be managed with bNodes but trickier with URIs
- 13:28:11 [DanC_lap]
- ack jannes
- 13:28:11 [Zakim]
- JanneS, you wanted to how null values are reported
- 13:28:54 [SteveH]
- SELECT ?creator WHERE SOURCE ?s (:a :b :c), (?s, <dc:creator>, ?creator)
- 13:30:06 [AlbertoR]
- SeveH: +1 - we do exactly the same
- 13:30:33 [JanneS]
- JanneS: what about repositories without source support?
- 13:30:48 [JanneS]
- DaveB: return NULL value (V1.55 suggests this instead of leaving binding out completely)
- 13:30:52 [AlbertoR]
- commas should be optionals - at least in last RDQL spec before this WG work
- 13:30:53 [DanC_lap]
- ack andys
- 13:30:53 [Zakim]
- AndyS, you wanted to comment on quads
- 13:31:53 [JanneS]
- AndyS: implementation experience on source
- 13:32:11 [JanneS]
- scribe needs a link to an example (is there one in the dawg archive... will look myself)
- 13:34:00 [JanneS]
- AndyS: non-deterministic retrieval of source from statements due to toolkit implementations (did I record this correctly?)
- 13:34:17 [DanC_lap]
- (test case for pure quads vs. named containers... dirk says it's straighforward to make one)
- 13:34:27 [Yoshio]
- * FROM is in section 8
- 13:34:59 [AlbertoR]
- q?
- 13:35:36 [dirkx]
- q?
- 13:35:44 [kendall]
- Steve: will you scribe here what you guys do with bnodes & the 'system' graph?
- 13:35:51 [JanneS]
- AlbertoR: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0415.html
- 13:35:52 [kendall]
- i'd like that on the record
- 13:35:54 [SteveH]
- kendall, I'l try
- 13:35:57 [kendall]
- thx
- 13:36:22 [dirkx]
- Andy: you can of course ask the system which SOURCES do list a certain triple. But do espect multiple anserws.
- 13:36:39 [SteveH]
- We have a "system graph" that contains the provenance infomation, it holds the bnodes that idetify the graphs
- 13:36:51 [SteveH]
- (should say 'had' the current system uses URIs :)
- 13:37:00 [AndyS]
- dirkx - yes because it is not now an RDF question
- 13:37:16 [dirkx]
- AnndyS: agreed
- 13:37:34 [kendall]
- DanC: hmm?
- 13:38:46 [JanneS]
- AlbertoR: different interpretations of FROM: merged graphs vs. distributed queries
- 13:38:51 [DanC_lap]
- ack danc
- 13:38:51 [Zakim]
- DanC_lap, you wanted to ask if the definitions cover SOURCE and to ask for clarification about two 9s and 9.1
- 13:38:57 [AlbertoR]
- identity mangement UC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0415.html
- 13:39:18 [ericP]
- q+ to propose leaving space for SOURCE in the grammar and punt it to the next version
- 13:39:33 [kendall]
- Alberto: I intend to put a version of that use case into UC&R the next time I update it -- waiting on the UDDI use case
- 13:40:09 [AlbertoR]
- FROM vs. SOURCE - FROM is more for "4.2 Aggregation Graphs", while/and SOURCE might be more for "4.5 Querying Multiple Sources" - see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0327.html
- 13:40:47 [DanC_lap]
- ack AlbertoR
- 13:40:48 [JanneS]
- DanC: SOURCE appears not to be complete
- 13:40:49 [DanC_lap]
- ack Yoshio
- 13:41:10 [ericP]
- q?
- 13:41:13 [ericP]
- odd
- 13:41:19 [DanC_lap]
- DanC: does SOURCE design include extended definition of graph pattern matching? DaveB: no, not yet
- 13:41:24 [ericP]
- q- AlbertoR
- 13:41:30 [ericP]
- ack Yoshio
- 13:41:30 [Zakim]
- Yoshio, you wanted to ask what is meant by "SOURCE ?s clause is ignored", the subsequent triple is ignored? or it is processed as if it appears without SOURCE ?s ?
- 13:41:40 [AlbertoR]
- and more about "why bNodes as graph-names" see one of last threads / emails on RDFIG http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2004Sep/0044.html (Phil is one of the early implementors of BRQL it seems) - I am wondering what he feels like about SOURCE vs. FROM
- 13:42:05 [DanC_lap]
- (did phil implement {} or ()? I wonder)
- 13:42:42 [DanC_lap]
- ack ericp
- 13:42:42 [Zakim]
- ericP, you wanted to propose leaving space for SOURCE in the grammar and punt it to the next version
- 13:42:48 [SteveH]
- DanC_lap, neither - he did an abstract syntax
- 13:43:35 [JanneS]
- EricP: implemented source some time ago: worried how it gets implemented: suggestion to leave it out from the next version but leave space in the grammar
- 13:43:53 [kendall]
- np
- 13:44:38 [JanneS]
- EricP: quads can be implemented as a list of values in the 4th slot - is somewhat heavy way to go
- 13:48:09 [JanneS]
- strawpoll on source indicates yes/no and abstain
- 13:49:13 [JanneS]
- DanC: how about shipping quickly without source and getting source standardized quicker in this way
- 13:49:26 [JanneS]
- Kendall: there are implementations for source already
- 13:49:44 [JanneS]
- DanC: yes but in different ways as it appears, more time would mature the interoperability of implementations
- 13:50:23 [JosD]
- q+ to say that we should do the intersection of different designs
- 13:50:55 [JanneS]
- Kendall: we've been researching the source since the beginning of the WG, how will it get easier in the next 6 months?
- 13:51:18 [JanneS]
- DanC: one technical implementation will dominate over time
- 13:52:03 [JanneS]
- Alberto: let's work more on ~10 test cases for SOURCE and see if interoperability can be reached
- 13:52:31 [JanneS]
- SteveH: interoperability should not be hard to reach
- 13:52:51 [JanneS]
- Jos: let's take the intersection of different approaches
- 13:54:07 [rob_]
- q+
- 13:54:49 [AndyS]
- q+ to explain a test case to test for agreement
- 13:54:56 [JanneS]
- Jos: source is crucial but we don't know the complexities involved w.r.t proofs -> define pragmatic source
- 13:55:32 [JanneS]
- Dirk: thinks technical source different from the 'asserter source' needed in proofs
- 13:56:57 [JanneS]
- EricP: we could reduce the problem space by having a variable for the source which can also be checked for e.g. fixed values (correct me Eric if I got this wrong)
- 13:57:09 [JanneS]
- s/also/only/
- 13:57:15 [DaveB]
- Eric P proposed could be changed to require
- 13:57:15 [DaveB]
- SOURCE ?s (s p o)
- 13:57:15 [DaveB]
- SOURCE <uri> (s p o)
- 13:57:15 [DaveB]
- but forbid any other use of ?s in a constraint
- 13:58:11 [JanneS]
- Kendall: minimalistic solution to managing source in the 1st spec version
- 13:58:43 [JanneS]
- Kendall: implementors will give with feedback on its more robust version
- 13:58:53 [JanneS]
- s/give with/come with/
- 14:00:49 [JanneS]
- Rob: aggregation use case with RDF not a representative scenario for querying
- 14:01:08 [JanneS]
- AndyS: we think it is (many others second this)
- 14:01:21 [Yoshio]
- I'm getting convinced it's still premature to include in the spec...
- 14:01:53 [JanneS]
- DaveB: volunteers to suggest text for a minimal design (in support of Eric's suggestion)
- 14:03:10 [JanneS]
- 1. source can be just 'returning source'
- 14:03:25 [JanneS]
- 2. source can be a) constrained and b) returned
- 14:04:08 [JanneS]
- 9.1 = 1
- 14:05:00 [JanneS]
- 3. source can be fixed but not returned
- 14:05:09 [JanneS]
- 9.1 = 3 in fact
- 14:09:52 [DaveB]
- 4. SOURCE ?s and SELECT ?s only
- 14:10:36 [kendall]
- ACTION SteveH: real test cases re: current SOURCE design
- 14:10:42 [kendall]
- ACTION AlbertoR: real test cases re: current SOURCE design
- 14:12:24 [AlbertoR]
- AndyS: shows some interesting SOURCE UC - which is very much similar to the one proposed in 3) at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0327.html
- 14:14:07 [JanneS]
- ACTION AndyS: make test case available as it distinguishes between two designs of implementing source
- 14:16:07 [kendall]
- AndyS: ask about hardness of getting the src graph in the result set
- 14:16:21 [kendall]
- er, i mean, i want to ask AndyS that question
- 14:16:49 [ericP]
- pictures of quads and formulas --> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/attributions/#quads
- 14:16:55 [AndyS]
- It required no extra machinary
- 14:17:26 [DaveB]
- ACTION DaveB: Update the source section 9, add more formal links, update the examples, try to think about extra constraints as EricP proposed (SOURCE ?s and ?s onlin in SELECT). Look at various ppl's source test cases
- 14:19:46 [JanneS]
- Kendall: has surveyd namespace management in addition to rdf query languages
- 14:20:06 [JanneS]
- Kendall: would prefer declarations of namespace before (strawpoll indicates strong support for before instead of after)
- 14:23:49 [JanneS]
- DanC: almost got into real discussion of issue 2: capability for multiple queries
- 14:24:34 [JanneS]
- SteveH: wants to drop nested optionals
- 14:25:42 [JanneS]
- ACTION SteveH: owns issue 'nested optionals'
- 14:26:59 [JanneS]
- ACTION AlbertoB: owns issue 'DESCRIBE'
- 14:29:34 [JanneS]
- ACTION DanC: add issue 'design of conjunction'
- 14:30:45 [JanneS]
- Kendall: will edit issues list
- 14:32:25 [JanneS]
- Rob: needs more formal description for the result (yes/no) for the ASK feature of V1.55 of BRQL
- 14:32:35 [JanneS]
- Rob: doesn't like the extra keyword AS
- 14:32:39 [JanneS]
- s/AS/ASK/
- 14:34:12 [JanneS]
- SELECT WHERE conditions might look ugly
- 14:35:43 [JanneS]
- AndyS: current design with ASK is related to description logics evaluation where the answer might not be any bindings but really yes/no only
- 14:36:46 [AlbertoR]
- q+
- 14:38:00 [JanneS]
- Kendall: DL-KB (sp?) relevant here
- 14:38:02 [JosD]
- q-
- 14:38:10 [rob_]
- q-
- 14:38:28 [JanneS]
- ACTION DanC: owner of issue 'yes or no questions'
- 14:38:33 [kendall]
- DIG DL inference engine protocol
- 14:42:14 [JanneS]
- Rob: ASK is, however, useful as special case because of yes/no answers are given to queries which involve ground triples only
- 14:42:28 [JanneS]
- worksFor(Rob,NI) -> true
- 14:42:31 [AlbertoR]
- ack AlbertoR
- 14:42:32 [JanneS]
- worksFor(Janne,NI) -> false
- 14:43:50 [AndyS]
- q-
- 14:44:28 [JFBaget]
- JFBaget has joined #dawg
- 14:44:38 [JanneS]
- ACTION DanC: add new issue 'eddie number of bindings vs. number of graphs'
- 14:45:30 [JFBaget]
- The result of a query with an empty SELECT is a list (that can be exponential) of empty bindings.
- 14:45:44 [JFBaget]
- The result of ASK is a boolean.
- 14:45:54 [rob_]
- that's a bad design
- 14:46:25 [JFBaget]
- The difference between them is that ASK stops working after finding a first solution.
- 14:50:06 [ericP]
- that works for me
- 15:06:38 [kendall]
- danbri... who invited him?! :>
- 15:07:46 [ericP]
- ericP takes over scribing
- 15:08:03 [ericP]
- discussing the constraints and capabilities workshop
- 15:08:26 [DaveB]
- http://www.w3.org/2004/06/ws-cc-cfp.html
- 15:11:12 [ericP]
- http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/specification/ws-polfram/
- 15:11:24 [ericP]
- WS-Policy spec (well sort of)
- 15:11:57 [ericP]
- position paper with useful excerps
- 15:12:00 [ericP]
- http://www.w3.org/2004/08/20-ws-pol-pos/
- 15:13:31 [AlbertoR]
- AlbertoR has joined #dawg
- 15:16:10 [ericP]
- ACTION Kendall: investigate overlap between RDF query and web service constraints
- 15:16:18 [DaveB]
- above url seems ACLed
- 15:17:56 [DaveB]
- ericP points to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2004Sep/0030.html
- 15:20:31 [ericP]
- tx
- 15:20:46 [ericP]
- sorry for the above ACL. dunno who made it inaccessible
- 15:20:50 [ericP]
- (or why)
- 15:21:06 [ericP]
- [UDDI use case]
- 15:21:32 [ericP]
- Kendall: i think it's just died.
- 15:21:42 [ericP]
- DanC: will come back if it's important
- 15:22:35 [ericP]
- ACTION Hendler: something related to UDDI
- 15:22:37 [JosD]
- Re previous agendum see rdf topic in WS-desc WG f2f Toronto http://www.w3.org/2004/09/16-ws-desc-irc
- 15:22:39 [ericP]
- -- DROPPED
- 15:22:40 [ericP]
- ACTION DanC: tell semweb coord that the UDDI action was dropped
- 15:22:52 [kendall]
- Hendler took an action to write a UDDI use case.
- 15:23:31 [ericP]
- [DI use case]
- 15:23:50 [ericP]
- ISSUE: collection or container member accessor
- 15:24:04 [DaveB]
- ref to Bags used for the DI case, as noted by andy
- 15:24:10 [DaveB]
- in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0487.html
- 15:24:48 [ericP]
- Dirk: DI use case raises preference expressibility.
- 15:24:59 [ericP]
- DanC: hard to do in closed world?
- 15:25:18 [ericP]
- Dirk: QL can do ordering
- 15:26:10 [ericP]
- Janne: these queries are on the device profile, but should be merged with data on the server.
- 15:26:14 [dirkx]
- Dirk: wanted to say; may be QL - but more likely (like the above wss Policy example) can be done in userland after the query.
- 15:26:52 [ericP]
- tx
- 15:27:12 [dirkx]
- Neet to be cognant that there are very large permutation spaces in those spaces; i.e. having a couple of thousand valid answers baded in the device profile is not uncommon.
- 15:27:40 [ericP]
- cries out for ordering and limiting
- 15:28:39 [DaveB]
- http://signage.ecs.soton.ac.uk/
- 15:28:41 [ericP]
- ACTION Steve: send mail about the signage project
- 15:29:46 [ericP]
- ACTION Kendall: add DI use case
- 15:30:03 [ericP]
- ACTION Kendall: whatever
- 15:30:10 [ericP]
- action -22
- 15:30:13 [kendall]
- heh
- 15:31:31 [ericP]
- [Alberto talks about his query/XSLT service]
- 15:32:06 [ericP]
- Alberto: the query return ResultSet format in Andy's doc
- 15:32:08 [DaveB]
- discussing http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/RDF-XML.html
- 15:32:39 [ericP]
- ... cgi takes query and XSLT
- 15:33:54 [JanneS]
- q+ to check data typing with this structure
- 15:34:16 [ericP]
- ... format is XML so we got to do lots of stuff with XSLT that we couldn't do with the QL
- 15:35:08 [SteveH]
- http://triplestore.aktors.org/rdql/?query=SELECT+%3Fs%2C+%3Fname+WHERE+%28%3Fs%2C+%3Crdfs%3Alabel%3E%2C+%3Fname%29+AND+%3Fname+LIKE+%22stephen+harris%22&xslt=%2Fquery%2Ftable.xslt
- 15:35:16 [AlbertoR]
- http://demo.asemantics.com/rdfstore/rdql/
- 15:35:30 [ericP]
- SteveH: we do something similar. using a different XML result set
- 15:35:33 [kendall]
- Hmm, back on WS constraints and capabilities... Depending on how one represents the state of the world, either in OWL DL or in RDF, you very much could use DAWG to do queries over, for example, service preconditions and effects. It's more likely, as WSDL gets RDFized, that people will be using RDF triple stores to track and represent the states and properties of services, in which case DAWG queries would be very natural to do.
- 15:35:52 [AlbertoR]
- take any query example there and select "RDF Query and Rules Results RDF/XML syntax" output (4th in the radio in the HTML page) - output is XML
- 15:36:05 [kendall]
- And one of our industry partners, Fujitsu Labs of America, which does a lot of this stuff, is itching to use DAWG to support their service composition and planning stuff.
- 15:36:13 [ericP]
- SteveH: our format is terser. that was important.
- 15:36:35 [JanneS]
- agree with Kendall's analysis on the way WS is moving
- 15:37:11 [AlbertoR]
- http://www.asemantics.com/rdflets/ is what I talked about - some very simple preso about this sutff was done at EuroFooCamp in NL last month - and some FOAF demos were shown - see http://www.asemantics.com/presos/foocamp2004-rdfstore/
- 15:37:58 [macdanbri]
- (nice demos :)
- 15:38:00 [AlbertoR]
- to little explain this RDF-for-XML allows a more powerful and flexible Model-View-Controller (MVC) - you give data (RDF), query and XSLT (presentation)
- 15:38:22 [kendall]
- So, it doesn't seem to be the case that it's either simplistic filtering or OWL Full or FOPL.
- 15:38:26 [ericP]
- [discussion of ResultSet and XML datatypes]
- 15:38:26 [AlbertoR]
- btw: we hope to resurrect our main demo machine demo2 soon after disk crash last week)
- 15:38:54 [ericP]
- RobS: most XML processors get their datatypes *only* from schema.
- 15:39:16 [ericP]
- DanC: not xsi:type
- 15:39:55 [ericP]
- [discussion of NULLs]
- 15:40:24 [JanneS]
- http://norman.walsh.name/2004/01/29/trainwreck - '... any design that requires it (xsi:type) is somehow flawed or at least ugly.'
- 15:42:53 [DaveB]
- AndyS says this is used:
- 15:42:53 [DaveB]
- <binding>
- 15:42:53 [DaveB]
- <var>mbox</var>
- 15:42:53 [DaveB]
- <value rdf:datatype="&xsd;decimal">10</uri>
- 15:42:53 [DaveB]
- </binding>
- 15:43:16 [ericP]
- Alberto: can't we call this a table with rows?
- 15:43:38 [ericP]
- exit dirk, stage left
- 15:44:12 [ericP]
- Kendall: the format should help us document the spec (and visa versa)
- 15:44:33 [ericP]
- ... [re SAX-friendly]
- 15:45:35 [ericP]
- ... get rid of solution element. doesn't add anything.
- 15:46:07 [JanneS]
- btw, xsi:type for indicating type information needs QName as value, not URI
- 15:46:27 [ericP]
- AndyS: Steve's doesn't have <binding/> element
- 15:46:59 [ericP]
- DanC: neither uses table structure. could use <td/> and not repeat <th/>s
- 15:49:00 [ericP]
- RobS: i'm interested in defining the results. whether it addresses my XQuery access issue is still unknown;
- 15:49:19 [kendall]
- mine looks like:
- 15:50:14 [ericP]
- ... binding set, binding element, variable
- 15:50:21 [kendall]
- ej. o
- 15:50:23 [kendall]
- erp
- 15:50:24 [kendall]
- i'll mail it
- 15:50:39 [kendall]
- ACTION KendallC: put xml format up somewhere public, mail a pointer
- 15:51:12 [DaveB]
- looking at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0441.html
- 15:55:23 [rob_]
- eric: hoping that testing with xquery will demonstrate that it's not a good fit
- 15:55:35 [ericP]
- [XQuery serialization of BRQL]
- 16:06:38 [ericP]
- [investigation of function declaration]
- 16:06:52 [ericP]
- return types optional.
- 16:07:02 [ericP]
- DanC: what is it if it's not declared.
- 16:07:21 [ericP]
- RobS: i documented [in words] the relevent part of the functions
- 16:07:43 [ericP]
- [defining a type for bnodes]
- 16:08:08 [howardk]
- howardk has joined #dawg
- 16:08:16 [ericP]
- heya howard
- 16:08:22 [howardk]
- hi eric!
- 16:08:45 [howardk]
- lo shellac. sorry we couldn't meet in person.
- 16:08:47 [DaveB]
- in 2.6.3 of http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-datamodel/ we find that item / node / * / user-defined type
- 16:09:02 [DaveB]
- so user-defined items can only be sub-types of attributes|document|element nodes
- 16:09:57 [howardk]
- omigosh, you guys are into discussing deep things for so late in the day. :-)
- 16:10:49 [DaveB]
- ptr http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-datamodel/#types-hierarchy
- 16:12:07 [ericP]
- yeah, it's kinda heavy
- 16:12:36 [Yoshio]
- * too heavy
- 16:13:30 [DaveB]
- looking at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0458.html
- 16:13:39 [DaveB]
- re returning rdg graphics
- 16:13:40 [DaveB]
- graphs
- 16:19:43 [howardk]
- hi macdandri. me too (hey I'm such an irc nubie: how do you do that 'me' thing to make a parenthetical statement??)
- 16:19:59 [shellac]
- /me <some stuff>
- 16:21:26 [howardk]
- is Rob up, trying to convince people of the virtues of XQuery?
- 16:21:37 [ericP]
- RobS: different QLs for every level of the stack will turn people off.
- 16:24:03 [ericP]
- DanC: who is interested in studying XQuery expression?
- 16:24:13 [ericP]
- [straw poll'
- 16:24:15 [ericP]
- ]
- 16:25:02 [ericP]
- RobS, EricP [as path to concensus], andy [interested enough to invest time reading]
- 16:25:28 [ericP]
- /you does
- 16:30:02 [ericP]
- RobS: if this group goes forward with BRQL, i don't know that NI will be able to implement it right away.
- 16:30:19 [ericP]
- Kendall: how about a note?
- 16:30:31 [AndyS]
- Or a member submission
- 16:30:36 [kendall]
- erp :>
- 16:30:53 [ericP]
- RobS: what weight to notes query? who's heard of the OWL XML language?
- 16:31:16 [kendall]
- Kendall: some W3C Notes carry more weight than others. No weight *necessarily*, but no lightness necessarily either.
- 16:31:25 [kendall]
- Depends on what else you and others are willing to put behind it.
- 16:31:33 [kendall]
- and its intrinsic merit
- 16:50:38 [ericP]
- DanC: the note idea has come three or four times. who's interested?
- 16:50:54 [ericP]
- ... not so useful to you [RobS]?
- 16:51:25 [ericP]
- RobS: i think it's more sensible for NI to start from XQuery and work from there.
- 16:52:28 [ericP]
- AndyS: we did not discuss using RDF query in non-XML environments
- 16:52:55 [ericP]
- DaveB: i'm concearned about the schedule [meeting Jan LC]
- 16:54:40 [ericP]
- EricP: hoped to provide RDF query access to XQuery users. a note someday would be nice.
- 16:55:06 [ericP]
- Jos: we can solve our problem with SELECT and WHERE. we don't need a full-blown XQuery.
- 16:56:14 [ericP]
- zakim, please pick a scribe
- 16:56:14 [Zakim]
- sorry, ericP, I don't know what conference this is
- 16:56:20 [ericP]
- zakim, this is DAWG
- 16:56:20 [Zakim]
- sorry, ericP, I do not see a conference named 'DAWG' in progress or scheduled at this time
- 16:56:28 [ericP]
- zakim, go home
- 16:56:28 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'go home', ericP
- 16:56:38 [ericP]
- morning scribe: RobS
- 16:56:42 [ericP]
- [ADJOURN]
- 16:57:00 [AlbertoR]
- AlbertoR has left #dawg
- 16:59:00 [TomAdams]
- TomAdams has joined #dawg
- 16:59:32 [danbri_dna]
- danbri_dna has joined #dawg
- 17:02:43 [DaveB]
- hi Tom, meeting just ended
- 17:43:00 [TomAdams]
- TomAdams has left #dawg
- 19:13:30 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #dawg