IRC log of dawg on 2004-09-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:30:40 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:31:06 [AndyS]

Zakim not seeing the phone bridge? Didn't see a ??P when I phoned in

14:31:32 [Zakim]

+??P17

14:31:33 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:31:33 [Zakim]

On the phone I see RobS, Kendall_Clark, ??P4, ??P15, ??P16, EricP, DanC, ??P17

14:31:34 [ericP]

zakim, who is here?

14:31:34 [Zakim]

On the phone I see RobS, Kendall_Clark, ??P4, ??P15, ??P16, EricP, DanC, ??P17

14:31:36 [Zakim]

On IRC I see RRSAgent, AlbertoR, AndyS, kendall, HiroyukiS, Zakim, DanC, SimonR, DaveB, SteveH, ericP, afs

14:31:45 [DanC]

Zakim, ??P17 is DaveB

14:31:45 [Zakim]

+DaveB; got it

14:31:52 [DanC]

Zakim, ??P16 is AndyS

14:31:52 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:32:05 [Zakim]

+AlbertoG

14:32:32 [DanC]

Zakim, ??P4 is SimonR

14:32:32 [Zakim]

+SimonR; got it

14:32:42 [Zakim]

+ +004419aaaa

14:32:43 [DanC]

Zakim, mute SimonR temporarily

14:32:43 [Zakim]

SimonR should now be muted

14:32:58 [Zakim]

SimonR should now be unmuted again

14:33:03 [SteveH]

Zakim, +004419aaaa is SteveH

14:33:03 [Zakim]

+SteveH; got it

14:33:10 [FarrukhNajmi]

FarrukhNajmi has joined #dawg

14:33:16 [DanC]

Zakim, SimonR is Somebody

14:33:16 [Zakim]

+Somebody; got it

14:33:22 [DanC]

Zakim, ??P15 is SimonR

14:33:22 [Zakim]

+SimonR; got it

14:33:28 [DanC]

Zakim, mute SimonR temporarily

14:33:28 [Zakim]

SimonR should now be muted

14:33:32 [HiroyukiS]

I joind just before Kendall

14:33:42 [DanC]

Zakim, Somebody is HiroyukiS

14:33:42 [Zakim]

+HiroyukiS; got it

14:33:43 [FarrukhNajmi]

I am running just a few min late in another meeting. Will dialin shortly. thanks. cu

14:33:43 [Zakim]

SimonR should now be unmuted again

14:33:50 [DanC]

ok, FarrukhNajmi

14:33:54 [Zakim]

+??P20

14:34:03 [DanC]

Zakim, ??P20 is JosD

14:34:03 [Zakim]

+JosD; got it

14:35:29 [DanC]

Zakim, agenda?

14:35:29 [Zakim]

I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:

14:35:30 [Zakim]

1. Convene, take roll, review record (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0408.html), agenda [from DanC]

14:35:33 [Zakim]

2. public comments on date/time (ACTION TomA) [from DanC]

14:35:35 [Zakim]

3. rules, construct (action Simon+Kendall) [from DanC]

14:35:37 [Zakim]

4. 4.6 Additional Semantic Information, rules, construct (action Simon+Kendall) [from DanC]

14:35:39 [Zakim]

5. returning bnodes issue (ACTION SimonR) [from DanC]

14:35:41 [Zakim]

6. 4.5 Querying Multiple Sources (ACTION RobS?) [from DanC]

14:35:43 [Zakim]

7. PREFIX syntax (ACTION KendallC) [from DanC]

14:35:44 [Zakim]

8. XQuery tradeoff (ACTION SimonR) [from DanC]

14:35:45 [Zakim]

9. SOURCE issue (ACTION DaveB) [from DanC]

14:35:46 [Zakim]

10. ftf agenda, issues list http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf3-brs#agenda [from DanC]

14:36:35 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:36:35 [Zakim]

On the phone I see RobS, Kendall_Clark, HiroyukiS, SimonR, AndyS, EricP, DanC, DaveB, AlbertoR, SteveH, JosD

14:36:50 [SimonR]

We have regrets via email from Farrukh, Bryan, Yoshio and Hiroyuki. (Farrukh is present, however!)

14:37:16 [DanC]

ACTION KendallC: PREFIX CONTINUES without discussion

14:37:21 [DanC]

agenda -7

14:37:34 [HiroyukiS]

* I'm on the phone.

14:37:40 [TomAdams]

TomAdams has joined #dawg

14:37:41 [DanC]

agenda -3

14:37:51 [Zakim]

+[Tucana]

14:38:01 [TomAdams]

zakim, tucana is TomAdams

14:38:01 [Zakim]

+TomAdams; got it

14:38:48 [DanC]

ACTION SimonR: returning bnodes issue CONTINUES without discussion

14:38:51 [DanC]

agenda -5

14:39:22 [DanC]

agenda + BRQL r1.55

14:39:57 [DanC]

agenda + tests update

14:40:27 [kendall]

fwiw, a link to the brql spec is always nice in email's announcing an update of it...

14:40:49 [AndyS]

Got it. Will do next time.

14:40:53 [DanC]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

14:41:19 [kendall]

can someone paste brql's uri? it's so unmemorable I can't remember it!

14:41:23 [AndyS]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/

14:41:36 [kendall]

thx

14:42:01 [SimonR]

Resolved to accept the minutes of the 08/31 minutes.

14:42:20 [SimonR]

No teleconference will be held on the 14th, due to the Bristol F2F.

14:42:38 [SimonR]

Kendall offers to scribe at the F2F.

14:42:44 [DanC]

Zakim, close agendum 1

14:42:44 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

14:42:45 [Zakim]

I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:42:46 [Zakim]

2. public comments on date/time (ACTION TomA) [from DanC]

14:42:55 [kendall]

(Andy also offered but I trumped him! :>)

14:42:55 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

14:42:55 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "public comments on date/time (ACTION TomA)" taken up [from DanC]

14:43:18 [DanC]

Tom's proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0454.html

14:43:37 [SimonR]

TomA sent the email message this morning.

14:44:04 [SimonR]

TomA says that Bjoern said that there weren't enough use-cases around datatyping.

14:44:09 [AndyS]

q+

14:44:33 [AlbertoR]

new XPath has some http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#comp.duration.datetime

14:45:01 [AndyS]

q-

14:45:09 [DaveB]

http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-current-dateTime

14:45:20 [DaveB]

fn:current-dateTime() as xs:dateTime

14:45:29 [DanC]

ACTION RobS: see if XQuery has a now() function

14:45:35 [SimonR]

Discussion about adding a function for accessing the current time. (Does XQuery have such a function?)

14:45:38 [AlbertoR]

yep - those actually - txs DaveB

14:46:13 [DaveB]

query has current-dateTime(), current-date() and current-time() as well as comparison functions

14:47:20 [SimonR]

TomA asks: is this question of time beyond our scope?

14:49:01 [Zakim]

+Farrukh_Najmi

14:49:17 [ericP]

welcome Farrukh

14:49:29 [FarrukhNajmi]

Hi ERic and colleagues

14:49:33 [DanC]

I see section 12 Testing Values http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#extendedtests $Revision: 1.55 $ of $Date: 2004/09/07 13:03:48 $

14:49:50 [SimonR]

AndyS is expecting the language to eventually support user-defined functions.

14:49:55 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

14:49:55 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "4.6 Additional Semantic Information, rules, construct (action Simon+Kendall)" taken up [from DanC]

14:51:06 [TomAdams]

SimonR, I will send my reply to Bjoern's comment email to him, copied to comments list, as is basically.

14:51:17 [DanC]

getting more concrete about 4.6 Kendall Clark http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0403.html

14:52:09 [SimonR]

Kendall summarizes http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0403.html

14:52:32 [ericP]

Tom, your mail to Wolper Cc'd public-rdf-dawg-comments-request (vs. the list itself). I've bounced it to the comments list (with a corrected Cc:) and it hwas been archived [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Sep/0001]

14:53:29 [ericP]

-1 on syntactic suger

14:53:43 [ericP]

(-.5, really)

14:54:54 [ericP]

q+ to talk about srql

14:55:00 [TomAdams]

q+

14:55:26 [AndyS]

FYI: Other systems have special predicates: directSubClassOf

14:55:35 [AndyS]

No need for syntax

14:55:48 [DanC]

ack tom

14:56:36 [AndyS]

We such users as well - usually writing editors and the like

14:56:48 [kendall]

I would be happy with special predicates.

14:57:17 [SteveH]

special predicates can give unexpeted results to queries

14:57:19 [AndyS]

Also I agree with RobS - direct/indirect is complicated and subtle

14:57:23 [SteveH]

+1

14:58:48 [DanC]

ack ericp

14:58:48 [Zakim]

ericP, you wanted to talk about srql

14:59:13 [SimonR]

Kendall is worried that we'll be doing with regard to inferencing is an actual mistake rather than a matter of taste.

14:59:28 [SimonR]

Danc exhorts people to submit use-cases for inferencing!

15:00:41 [SimonR]

Kendall points out UCs 2.3 and 2.11 as claiming that they motivate inferencing.

15:01:05 [TomAdams]

EricP, it's user error, not mail client.

15:01:16 [AndyS]

UC: Ontology editors : Are there any other areas?

15:01:52 [SimonR]

ACTION TomAdams: finding a use-case for direct/transitive.

15:03:41 [kendall]

ACTION KendallClark: Pester Aditya about scheme/metascheme query support re: SWOOP

15:04:45 [DanC]

DONE: ACTION Simon on CONSTRUCT

15:04:55 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

15:04:55 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "returning bnodes issue (ACTION SimonR)" taken up [from DanC]

15:05:20 [DanC]

Zakim, close agendum 4

15:05:20 [Zakim]

agendum 4 closed

15:05:21 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:05:22 [Zakim]

5. XQuery tradeoff (ACTION SimonR) [from DanC]

15:05:47 [DanC]

--- 4.5 multiple source ACTION RobS?

15:05:59 [DanC]

DONE: Action Robs.

15:06:26 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

15:06:26 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "XQuery tradeoff (ACTION SimonR)" taken up [from DanC]

15:06:39 [TomAdams]

Kendall, we're doing work with OWL APIs ATM, I may be able to get some input here also...

15:07:38 [SimonR]

SimonR requests RobS to take over this action.

15:07:41 [DaveB]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0441.html

15:07:46 [DanC]

XQuery syntax for BRQL semantics http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0441.html

15:09:39 [kendall]

Tom: Ah, good to know.

15:12:12 [SimonR]

AndyS objects to RobS's quoted proposal based on it not being XQuery.

15:12:18 [DanC]

... http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-datamodel/ ...

15:14:49 [AndyS]

q+

15:17:38 [AndyS]

q-

15:17:53 [SimonR]

q+

15:18:01 [DaveB]

q?

15:18:12 [Zakim]

-AlbertoR

15:18:37 [Zakim]

+[ASemantics]

15:28:54 [SimonR]

q-

15:29:21 [DanC]

ack SimonR

15:32:18 [TomAdams]

q+ To ask about query optimisers with Xquery

15:34:55 [DanC]

ack TomAdams

15:34:55 [Zakim]

TomAdams, you wanted to ask about query optimisers with Xquery

15:36:16 [DanC]

ack danc

15:36:16 [Zakim]

DanC, you wanted to ask andy about other proposals we don't get to hear about

15:38:43 [AndyS]

"Making RDF Data Available for XML processing"

15:39:09 [AlbertoR]

http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/RDF-XML.html

15:39:43 [AlbertoR]

+1 to put the above document on the reading list for F2F

15:40:56 [AndyS]

http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/

15:42:33 [SimonR]

DanC requests that RobS and AndyS's documents will be on the reading list for the F2F.

15:42:40 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

15:42:40 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "SOURCE issue (ACTION DaveB)" taken up [from DanC]

15:43:19 [DaveB]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0447.html

15:45:49 [AlbertoR]

I mentioned some issues about FROM vs. SOURCE - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0327.html

15:46:39 [TomAdams]

(for the record) Sources specified in SOURCE clause are unions currently.

15:49:37 [AlbertoR]

+1

15:50:03 [AlbertoR]

would like to discuss the FROM vs. SOURCE more at f2f or by email -

15:50:06 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

15:50:06 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "ftf agenda, issues list http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf3-brs#agenda" taken up [from DanC]

15:50:10 [AndyS]

FROM <uri1>, <uri2> is merged union

15:50:51 [AndyS]

(For the record!)

15:51:11 [AndyS]

SOURCE isn't union.

15:51:20 [AlbertoR]

also possible discussion about SOURCE as bNode and realed UC "Identity management" - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0415.html

15:51:46 [kendall]

AndyS: hmm, that's kinda hard to scan... any chance for something more like FROM <u1> AND <u2>?

15:51:47 [SimonR]

DanC: Useful to get F2F discussion on several issues. Inviting volunteers to lead discussion on specific issues.

15:52:25 [SimonR]

RobS volunteers to lead the XQuery topic.

15:52:32 [AndyS]

If you want - no difficulties there

15:52:38 [DaveB]

"DI use case?" what's DI?

15:52:52 [AndyS]

Device Independence

15:53:03 [TomAdams]

AndyS, I knew I'd make a fool of myself over not having read it thoroughly... :)

15:53:16 [SimonR]

DanC suggests he'll have to compose an issues list. Would like someone else involved in composing it but suspects it might be hard to do so.

15:53:27 [kendall]

Andy: maybe i just shouldn't ever talk about syntax ;>

15:54:51 [SimonR]

DaveB volunteers to lead a discussion on SOURCE.

15:55:19 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

15:55:19 [Zakim]

agendum 8. "BRQL r1.55" taken up [from DanC]

15:55:56 [SimonR]

AndyS is proposing 1.55 to be the baseline used at the F2F.

15:56:11 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:56:11 [Zakim]

On the phone I see RobS, Kendall_Clark, HiroyukiS, SimonR, AndyS, EricP, DanC, DaveB, SteveH, JosD, TomAdams, Farrukh_Najmi, [ASemantics]

15:57:52 [SimonR]

Unanimous to freeze 1.55.

15:58:03 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

15:58:03 [Zakim]

agendum 9. "tests update" taken up [from DanC]

15:58:34 [DanC]

simple tests http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0426.html

15:58:38 [Zakim]

-RobS

15:59:23 [TomAdams]

My time is up sorry, have to leave. Bye.

15:59:26 [Zakim]

-TomAdams

15:59:41 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

16:01:59 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/

16:03:15 [DanC]

for ftf reading: test README http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/README.html

16:03:21 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

16:03:21 [Zakim]

I do not see any non-closed agenda items, DanC

16:03:42 [Zakim]

-DaveB

16:03:46 [Zakim]

-[ASemantics]

16:03:47 [Zakim]

-DanC

16:03:48 [Zakim]

-JosD

16:03:49 [Zakim]

-SimonR

16:03:49 [Zakim]

-Farrukh_Najmi

16:03:58 [Zakim]

-AndyS

16:04:01 [Zakim]

-SteveH

16:04:02 [Zakim]

-EricP

16:04:02 [SimonR]

Oh, where can I get the IRC log?

16:04:09 [Zakim]

-HiroyukiS

16:04:10 [DaveB]

RRSAgent: pointer?

16:04:10 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T16-04-10

16:04:10 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended

16:04:10 [AlbertoR]

AlbertoR has left #dawg

16:04:11 [Zakim]

Attendees were RobS, Kendall_Clark, EricP, DanC, DaveB, AndyS, SteveH, SimonR, HiroyukiS, AlbertoR, JosD, [Tucana], TomAdams, Farrukh_Najmi, [ASemantics]

16:04:24 [SimonR]

Ah, thanks RRSAgent! :)

16:04:53 [TomAdams]

Simon, Tucana is what zakim thinks Dave & my office is...

16:05:06 [DanC]

RRSAgent, list actions

16:05:06 [RRSAgent]

I see 5 open action items:

16:05:06 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallC to PREFIX CONTINUES without discussion [1]

16:05:06 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T14-37-16

16:05:06 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: SimonR to returning bnodes issue CONTINUES without discussion [2]

16:05:06 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T14-38-48

16:05:06 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: RobS to see if XQuery has a now() function [3]

16:05:06 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T14-45-29

16:05:06 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: TomAdams to finding a use-case for direct/transitive. [4]

16:05:06 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T15-01-52

16:05:06 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallClark to Pester Aditya about scheme/metascheme query support re: SWOOP [5]

16:05:06 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/09/07-dawg-irc#T15-03-41

16:05:14 [SimonR]

Sharing the phone for the SWBP, I presume.

16:06:24 [HiroyukiS]

bye

18:08:26 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #dawg