IRC log of wai-wcag on 2004-08-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:00:36 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
- 14:01:25 [ChrisR]
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- 14:01:34 [wendy]
- zakim, this is WAI_WCAG
- 14:01:34 [Zakim]
- ok, wendy; that matches WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM
- 14:01:41 [wendy]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:01:41 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P0, [Microsoft], Becky_Gibson, Wendy, Alex_Lee
- 14:01:50 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P0 is David_MacDondald
- 14:01:50 [Zakim]
- +David_MacDondald; got it
- 14:01:59 [wendy]
- zakim, [Microsoft] is Jenae
- 14:01:59 [Zakim]
- +Jenae; got it
- 14:02:05 [bcaldwell]
- bcaldwell has joined #wai-wcag
- 14:02:10 [Zakim]
- +Chris_Ridpath
- 14:02:20 [Zakim]
- +Sailesh_Panchang
- 14:02:33 [Zakim]
- +Michael_Cooper
- 14:02:46 [Zakim]
- +??P11
- 14:03:13 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P11 is Ben_Caldwell
- 14:03:13 [Zakim]
- +Ben_Caldwell; got it
- 14:04:49 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 14:06:00 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P12 is Lisa_Seeman
- 14:06:00 [Zakim]
- +Lisa_Seeman; got it
- 14:06:10 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 14:06:10 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see David_MacDondald, Jenae, Becky_Gibson, Wendy, Alex_Lee, Chris_Ridpath, Sailesh_Panchang, Michael_Cooper, Ben_Caldwell, Lisa_Seeman
- 14:07:02 [Zakim]
- +Richard
- 14:07:07 [wendy]
- Meeting: WCAG WG Techniques Task Force
- 14:07:13 [wendy]
- Chair: Michael Cooper
- 14:07:30 [r12a]
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- 14:07:40 [wendy]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004JulSep/0363.html
- 14:08:13 [wendy]
- Topic: test cases
- 14:08:29 [wendy]
- cr i've been working on test cases for checking conformance. talked with jon gunderson.
- 14:08:39 [wendy]
- cr jenae and i are joining the uawg call tomorrow.
- 14:08:49 [wendy]
- cr heard from tim boland about our test cases and how to improve them.
- 14:08:58 [wendy]
- cr after talk with uawg have a clearer idea.
- 14:09:07 [wendy]
- cr next week can publish some closer to finished documents.
- 14:09:22 [wendy]
- cr (the format of the test case)
- 14:09:24 [wendy]
- cr a proposed draft
- 14:09:38 [wendy]
- mc include the xml format as well as all the metadata?
- 14:09:44 [wendy]
- cr yes: html doc and xml format
- 14:10:49 [wendy]
- bg where do we look for test cases? chris' site?
- 14:11:07 [wendy]
- mc could look at uaag site. also at chris'
- 14:12:09 [wendy]
- cr my site is open and anyone can contribute. trying to promote idea of common set of accessibility checks.
- 14:12:45 [wendy]
- cr i looked at a number of w3c test suites. they are all different.
- 14:12:57 [wendy]
- cr the test suites i liked best were uaag, because they are the clearest
- 14:13:07 [Zakim]
- -Richard
- 14:13:34 [wendy]
- sp the old AERT has a few test cases
- 14:14:31 [Zakim]
- +Richard
- 14:15:38 [wendy]
- http://www.w3.org/QA/TheMatrix
- 14:15:44 [r12a]
- i got cut off, so i don't know whether the CSS test guidelines were mentioned
- 14:15:53 [r12a]
- as a good example
- 14:16:18 [wendy]
- do you have a uri? we've looked at some css test suite materials.
- 14:16:22 [David_MacDonald]
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- 14:16:31 [wendy]
- Topic: end-to-end mappings
- 14:17:13 [wendy]
- ja in examples, do short equivalent and short label mean the same thing? if so, use one term?
- 14:17:25 [wendy]
- bc using "alternative" instead of "equivalent" anyway
- 14:19:18 [r12a]
- zakim, mute ishida
- 14:19:18 [Zakim]
- sorry, r12a, I do not see a party named 'ishida'
- 14:19:27 [r12a]
- zakim, mute richard
- 14:19:27 [Zakim]
- Richard should now be muted
- 14:21:20 [wendy]
- action: wendy add issues related to gateway and guidelines to bugzilla
- 14:21:44 [wendy]
- action 1 = jenae add issues related to gateway and guidelines to bugzilla
- 14:21:59 [wendy]
- action: jenae add issues related to html techniques and multimedia to bugzilla
- 14:22:25 [wendy]
- 2.4
- 14:22:36 [wendy]
- sp haven't gotten to test cases, but success criteria and guideline.
- 14:23:01 [wendy]
- sp difficult to have one-to-one mapping between html techniques and success criteria
- 14:23:44 [wendy]
- sp lots of content is read in a chunk and am unsure what the mapping is between tech-indie and html-specific.
- 14:23:56 [wendy]
- bg is there an easier way to have it read to you?
- 14:24:08 [wendy]
- bg even for sighted, hard to follow since it's in a table
- 14:24:16 [wendy]
- bg better way to group the info?
- 14:24:59 [wendy]
- sp the way the guidelines are written (with headings), perhaps nest information
- 14:25:10 [wendy]
- bg if add another column for testing, that will make it even more confusing
- 14:25:20 [wendy]
- dmd headings at each column?
- 14:25:33 [wendy]
- sp yes, but it reads chunks. all techniques are read together.
- 14:25:42 [wendy]
- bg all of those usually go with that success criteria
- 14:26:13 [wendy]
- dmd what if there is a corresponding css techniques?
- 14:26:34 [wendy]
- s/dmd/sp
- 14:29:13 [wendy]
- dmd the mapping is not between css and html it's all of the pieces associated with a success criteria
- 14:29:31 [wendy]
- action: wac and sp look at structure and presentation of the mapping table
- 14:29:47 [wendy]
- sp on what basis are we saying 50,000 words?
- 14:30:13 [wendy]
- sp even a small page, there is hierarchical markup that is helpful.
- 14:30:31 [wendy]
- bc there are 40 open issues with that guideline, including that one.
- 14:30:56 [wendy]
- sp level 2 success criteria, a point about logical tab order, the issue said, "this might not be testable."
- 14:31:22 [wendy]
- sp perhaps move to level 3?
- 14:31:28 [wendy]
- wac level 3 is testable as well
- 14:32:05 [wendy]
- sp move because it is an assertion, similar to the others in level 3
- 14:32:35 [wendy]
- sp at level 3, only mentions paragraphs. doesn't mention lists or data tables
- 14:33:52 [Zakim]
- +Don_Evans
- 14:34:25 [donaldfevans]
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- 14:35:06 [wendy]
- action: sp look at issues in bugzilla and coordinate with yvette on guidelines summary
- 14:36:56 [wendy]
- mc is there a need to discuss existing test suites on this call?
- 14:37:18 [wendy]
- ja do we need to have a formal review process to look at each test case and approve it?
- 14:37:27 [wendy]
- cr yes, think we do need that formal process.
- 14:37:46 [wendy]
- ja best thing, start going through today.
- 14:42:07 [wendy]
- action: ben add product to bugzilla for test suite
- 14:43:01 [wendy]
- http://www.w3.org/2004/02/Process-20040205/policies.html#Policies
- 14:43:23 [wendy]
- action: cr read process doc, if have questions talk w/wendy
- 14:43:58 [wendy]
- action: bc, cr, ja set up bugzilla with components
- 14:44:30 [Zakim]
- -Richard
- 14:44:39 [r12a]
- r12a has left #wai-wcag
- 14:44:43 [wendy]
- dmd the layout of the end-to-ends is pretty well done. only a few that haven't been compelted: 4.1, 4.2, 2.5
- 14:45:06 [wendy]
- dmd would need to get latest draft.
- 14:46:17 [wendy]
- wac latest only has guideline 1.1
- 14:46:40 [wendy]
- dmd biggest problems found were in the gateway
- 14:47:36 [donaldfevans]
- brb
- 14:47:54 [wendy]
- bg i've updated 3.1 but haven't published it yet.
- 14:48:07 [wendy]
- bg took an action item last week to send issues to the mailing list
- 14:48:27 [wendy]
- bg js raised an issue with meaning and pronunciation last week. didn't see bugzilla related to that.
- 14:48:45 [wendy]
- bg someone else was doing 3.2
- 14:49:15 [wendy]
- bg tim was going to add the test cases.
- 14:49:42 [wendy]
- action items from last week: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004JulSep/0320.html
- 14:50:07 [wendy]
- dmd start looking at tables and decide if we are covering guidelines well w/techniques or are there holes?
- 14:50:25 [wendy]
- wac what are we waiting for? test cases?
- 14:50:43 [wendy]
- dmd not sure what the relationship is (of test cases) to the end-to-ends.
- 14:50:54 [wendy]
- mc test cases are an extension to the end-to-ends
- 14:51:15 [wendy]
- mc helping us get a whole picture of the entire chain from principle down to test case
- 14:53:36 [Michael]
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- 14:53:38 [wendy]
- sp diff between example and test case: example conforms to success criteria. test cases may have one that passes and another tha fails.
- 14:53:59 [wendy]
- bg diff between technique and examples?
- 14:54:04 [wendy]
- ja there are examples at all levels.
- 14:56:58 [wendy]
- bg could we attach files to techniques submissions?
- 14:57:12 [wendy]
- bg e.g. javascript techniques
- 14:57:52 [wendy]
- bg would be nice if could have examples can run when looking at techniques
- 14:59:01 [Michael]
- brb
- 14:59:51 [wendy]
- wac can send attachments to w3c mailing lists
- 15:00:02 [wendy]
- bc having problems w/cdata
- 15:00:38 [Zakim]
- -Alex_Lee
- 15:00:40 [wendy]
- bc copy the whole thing
- 15:00:55 [wendy]
- bc best to start w/complete working file than piece of it
- 15:01:42 [wendy]
- bc once the form is filled out, will trigger an issue
- 15:01:51 [wendy]
- bc bugzilla will allow file attachments
- 15:07:08 [wendy]
- bg where are the minutes?
- 15:07:18 [wendy]
- mc i haven't been emailing the links
- 15:08:27 [Zakim]
- -Lisa_Seeman
- 15:08:27 [wendy]
- RRSAgent, make log world
- 15:10:27 [wendy]
- Topic: 1.4 end-to-end
- 15:10:52 [bcaldwell]
- http://www.eramp.com/david/end_to_end/end_to_end_1.4.htm
- 15:13:08 [wendy]
- motion and contrast are different issues.
- 15:13:59 [wendy]
- gateway 1.4.2 discusses why contrast is important.
- 15:14:18 [wendy]
- lots of work needed. phrases are not best way to describe.
- 15:18:00 [wendy]
- couple places where it is a "wendy cut, tom paste" (move from css to gateway)
- 15:18:14 [wendy]
- still need to do that since didn't edit other parts of gateway (other than 1.1)
- 15:18:45 [wendy]
- in gateway, need to cleanup text about "partial disabilities"
- 15:19:42 [wendy]
- a section in html techniques for css techniques (use structural elements, style with css)
- 15:19:47 [wendy]
- either needs expanding or coord w/css
- 15:19:51 [wendy]
- largely a placeholder
- 15:20:30 [wendy]
- dmd any other adjustments that need to be made?
- 15:21:01 [bcaldwell]
- latest mappings - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2004/07/30-sc-techniques-mapping.html
- 15:21:07 [wendy]
- 4 css techniques: # 7 Colors and Backgrounds
- 15:21:07 [wendy]
- * 7.1 Specifying colors by keyword or RGB value
- 15:21:07 [wendy]
- * 7.2 Specifying colors
- 15:21:07 [wendy]
- * 7.3 Creating foreground and background contrast
- 15:21:07 [wendy]
- * 7.4 Specifying background and foreground color
- 15:21:51 [wendy]
- bg sc 1: Any text that is presented over a background is electronically available so that it could be re-presented in a form that allows the text to be distinguished from the background.
- 15:22:00 [wendy]
- saying, "don't put text in images?"
- 15:23:29 [wendy]
- if want to show how to use a specific font and div to create these effects, that be useful?
- 15:27:06 [wendy]
- wac sending css techs to variety of folks for review. don't have FIR or text replacement techniques in this draft, still some accessibility issues. will solicit people to submit techniques.
- 15:28:58 [wendy]
- bc create the techniques, but the asst technologies don't support. need to make clear what is not supported and why.
- 15:29:59 [ChrisR]
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- 15:30:15 [Zakim]
- -Chris_Ridpath
- 15:34:46 [wendy]
- next week: 90 minute call (to discuss test suites, etc) then 30 minutes for bugzilla training
- 15:37:50 [wendy]
- action: editors prep bugzilla for html, css, gateway issues for next draft (3 sept)
- 15:37:55 [Zakim]
- -Don_Evans
- 15:38:03 [donaldfevans]
- donaldfevans has left #wai-wcag
- 15:38:18 [Zakim]
- -Becky_Gibson
- 15:38:35 [Zakim]
- -Wendy
- 15:38:37 [Zakim]
- -Jenae
- 15:38:39 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Cooper
- 15:38:43 [Zakim]
- -David_MacDondald
- 15:41:27 [Zakim]
- -Ben_Caldwell
- 15:41:28 [Zakim]
- -Sailesh_Panchang
- 15:41:29 [Zakim]
- WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended
- 15:41:30 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Becky_Gibson, Wendy, Alex_Lee, David_MacDondald, Jenae, Chris_Ridpath, Sailesh_Panchang, Michael_Cooper, Ben_Caldwell, Lisa_Seeman, Richard, Don_Evans
- 15:41:39 [wendy]
- zakim, bye
- 15:41:39 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #wai-wcag
- 15:41:43 [wendy]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- I see 8 open action items:
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: jenae add issues related to gateway and guidelines to bugzilla [1]
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/11-wai-wcag-irc#T14-21-20
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: jenae add issues related to html techniques and multimedia to bugzilla [2]
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/11-wai-wcag-irc#T14-21-59
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: wac and sp look at structure and presentation of the mapping table [3]
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/11-wai-wcag-irc#T14-29-31
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: sp look at issues in bugzilla and coordinate with yvette on guidelines summary [4]
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/11-wai-wcag-irc#T14-35-06
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: ben add product to bugzilla for test suite [5]
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/11-wai-wcag-irc#T14-42-07
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: cr read process doc, if have questions talk w/wendy [6]
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/11-wai-wcag-irc#T14-43-23
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: bc, cr, ja set up bugzilla with components [7]
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/11-wai-wcag-irc#T14-43-58
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: editors prep bugzilla for html, css, gateway issues for next draft (3 sept) [8]
- 15:41:43 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/08/11-wai-wcag-irc#T15-37-50