IRC log of dawg on 2004-06-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:31:57 [RRSAgent]

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14:31:58 [Zakim]

On IRC I see DanC_jam, TomAdams, Zakim, rob, kendall, Yoshio, DaveB, howardk, KevinW, SimonR, AndyS, AndyS_logger, ericP

14:31:58 [Zakim]

+HowardK

14:32:11 [Zakim]

+Tayeb|JeffB

14:32:36 [alberto]

alberto has joined #dawg

14:33:09 [SteveH]

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14:34:16 [Zakim]

+ +39.063.7.aaaa

14:34:31 [TomAdams]

zakim, ??P31 is TomAdams

14:34:31 [Zakim]

+TomAdams; got it

14:34:32 [Yoshio]

The URI of my TriQL evaluation is http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-Yoshio/TriQLevaluation.html

14:34:41 [ericP]

zakim, +39.063.7.aaaa is Alberto

14:34:41 [Zakim]

+Alberto; got it

14:34:58 [ericP]

zakim, who is here?

14:34:58 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, Kevin, EricP, Natasha, RobS, AndyS, DavidWood, TomAdams, HowardK, TayebJeffB, Alberto

14:35:00 [Zakim]

On IRC I see SteveH, alberto, RRSAgent, DanC_jam, TomAdams, Zakim, rob, kendall, Yoshio, DaveB, howardk, KevinW, SimonR, AndyS, AndyS_logger, ericP

14:35:44 [Zakim]

+??P35

14:35:51 [DaveB]

Zakim, ??P35 is DaveB

14:35:51 [Zakim]

+DaveB; got it

14:35:52 [Zakim]

+JosD

14:36:06 [JosD]

JosD has joined #dawg

14:36:17 [Zakim]

+Farrukh

14:36:52 [Zakim]

+[UMD]

14:37:29 [jhendler]

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14:37:32 [Yoshio]

who is the scribe?

14:37:40 [AndyS]

I am

14:37:41 [Zakim]

+ +1.603.837.aabb

14:37:42 [jhendler]

zakim, [umd] is jimH

14:37:42 [Zakim]

+jimH; got it

14:37:51 [ericP]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0779.html

14:37:58 [AndyS]

agenda item 1:

14:38:27 [DanC_jam]

Zakim, list attendees

14:38:27 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, Kevin, EricP, Natasha, RobS, AndyS, DavidWood, HowardK, Tayeb|JeffB, TomAdams, Alberto, DaveB, JosD, Farrukh,

14:38:27 [AndyS]

zakim who is here

14:38:30 [Zakim]

... +1.603.837.aabb, jimH, DanC

14:38:49 [jfbaget]

jfbaget has joined #dawg

14:38:58 [FarrukhNajmi]

FarrukhNajmi has joined #dawg

14:39:06 [AndyS]

Minutes approved

14:39:38 [kendall]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/DesignEvaluations

14:39:42 [AndyS]

Scribe next time (6 July): SimonR

14:40:00 [kendall]

-- I moved the design evals page to a web doc

14:40:10 [AndyS]

Action/kendall done (remove 3.6 variant)

14:40:24 [AndyS]

Item 2: F2F update

14:40:45 [AndyS]

Agenda in progress

14:41:05 [AndyS]

Phone set up not finalized but looking OK

14:41:57 [AndyS]

F2F end

14:42:02 [ericP]

Rob, can you get the phone number for us?

14:42:12 [AndyS]

Item 3: requirement 3.6 optional match

14:43:07 [kendall]

alberto: sure

14:43:49 [AndyS]

SimonR: use case of people with people and properties

14:44:17 [DaveB]

lol

14:44:23 [AndyS]

Tom: current subquery mechanism not enough

14:44:31 [kendall]

WE ARE ALL TUCANA, suddenly :>

14:44:32 [AndyS]

Commercial need

14:45:04 [AndyS]

Jim+Bjian finds needed for UDDI/service match (e.g. contract number if present)

14:45:20 [AndyS]

UC For UDDI -> JimH offers after F2F

14:45:30 [alberto]

same here - optional matches is very important requirement for us and our customers too

14:45:48 [AndyS]

Farrukh offers ebXML registry UC

14:46:23 [AndyS]

ACTION Farrukh write up ebXML registry UC

14:46:45 [jhendler]

ACTION: JimH to work with Bijan to do some sort of UDDI/Web services use case

14:46:48 [AndyS]

ACTION Jimh, write UC For UDDI (after F2F)

14:47:16 [AndyS]

ACTION: Farrukh write up ebXML registry UC

14:47:27 [AndyS]

rssagent, list actions

14:48:25 [AndyS]

This is one of the most common requests we get.

14:48:43 [DaveB]

outer join? I don't have a database

14:48:59 [AndyS]

Simon wants req but not outer joins please

14:49:01 [kendall]

+1 daveb

14:49:24 [AndyS]

Simon: See Date Ch 19

14:49:46 [alberto]

sometimes when a property (or graph branch) is optional the query hand-writer (user/developer) might not know how it is structured - so have some kind of '*' (wildcard) might be useful - it is never practical to spell out all the bnodes/properties for optionals

14:50:44 [TomAdams]

Jim, get in touch with me if you need a hand with UDDI use case, we have a customer that is interested in this, who I can get requirements from.

14:50:50 [alberto]

+1 AndyS - semi-structure data is a big application area for RDF we think

14:51:45 [alberto]

s/semi-structure/semi-structured/

14:52:50 [AndyS]

EricP: implementation experience in Algae2

14:53:15 [AndyS]

Rob: Sceptical as to be a requirement

14:53:58 [DaveB]

C.J. Date, Introduction to Database Systems, Chapter 19, Missing Information, ISBN: 0-321-19784-4 http://www.aw-bc.com/catalog/academic/product/0,4096,0321197844,00.html

14:54:32 [AndyS]

JimH: asks if it is hard

14:54:41 [ericP]

RobS: Algae optional join code snipet: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0597.html

14:55:05 [alberto]

S. Abiteboul "Querying Semi-Structured Data" 1997 http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/abiteboul97querying.html

14:55:32 [AndyS]

Rob: unbound / nulls are a big thing

14:55:57 [jhendler]

q+ to discuss how Parka-DB did optional joins

14:56:48 [AndyS]

BRQL does it as nested queries but can optimize to outer joins as the result is flattened

14:57:14 [AndyS]

kendall - will do

14:57:19 [kendall]

andys: thx

14:58:59 [AndyS]

Rob: but is it a requirement? What about a objective?

14:59:00 [TomAdams]

+1

14:59:22 [AndyS]

Objective-ization: Jos, Rob

14:59:24 [TomAdams]

+1 for requirement... sorry

14:59:32 [jhendler]

ack jhendler

14:59:32 [Zakim]

jhendler, you wanted to discuss how Parka-DB did optional joins

15:00:08 [DanC_jam]

ok to skip you, jim?

15:00:29 [kendall]

+1 for simon to write about the *other* solutions

15:00:44 [AndyS]

ACTION: SimonR, advocate this requirememtn

15:00:59 [AndyS]

s/requirememtn/requirement/

15:01:43 [TomAdams]

Simon, we'll head over the the bookshop and pick up a copy. I left mine in Oz.

15:01:53 [AndyS]

Item 4: Streaming

15:02:11 [AndyS]

Rob: Possibility against

15:02:49 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

15:02:49 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

15:03:18 [AndyS]

Rob: wording is client driven and it is a server feature

15:03:33 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

15:03:33 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

15:04:05 [AndyS]

DanC: Web does use progressive display

15:05:09 [ericP]

lots of otherwise lazy web designers use img elements wiht vsize and hsize

15:05:27 [KevinW]

q+

15:05:41 [AndyS]

seconded Tom

15:05:49 [AndyS]

Abstain rob

15:06:15 [KevinW]

is there some interaction between streaming and result limit?

15:06:19 [AndyS]

RESOLVED to accept "streamability" with one abstain

15:06:27 [AndyS]

Item 5: testing

15:06:38 [AndyS]

Steve's action done

15:06:49 [DaveB]

SteveH?

15:06:53 [AndyS]

(Steve - partial regrets)

15:07:16 [SteveH]

yes, i believe its done

15:07:27 [AndyS]

DanC: Please Steve catch test cases as it goes

15:07:48 [AndyS]

Should move to W3C web site sometime

15:07:57 [AndyS]

Item 6: Design evals and poll

15:08:07 [AndyS]

DaveB did action on Algae

15:08:12 [AndyS]

EricP responded

15:08:47 [AndyS]

Issues: subgraph results ??

15:09:00 [kendall]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/DesignEvaluations

15:09:16 [Zakim]

-RobS

15:09:27 [AndyS]

Kendall has consolidated - keep in F2F reading as primary copy

15:09:53 [rob]

got cut off; redialiing

15:10:34 [AndyS]

ACTION: Kendall, edit to remove in-the-face URLs

15:10:48 [AndyS]

ACTION: Kendall, make a table in the doc

15:11:09 [AndyS]

Howard emailed XsRQL

15:11:16 [Zakim]

+RobS

15:11:55 [AndyS]

ACTION: AndyS, Evaluation of XsRQL for next Tuesday

15:12:11 [AndyS]

ACTION: Howard, send AndyS a draft main requirements

15:12:33 [AndyS]

DanC: No surprises at F2F => strawpoll before hand

15:12:46 [DaveB]

DanC: I've answered the poll

15:12:59 [DaveB]

it's at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/initdn/

15:13:15 [alberto]

daveb: txs

15:13:28 [AndyS]

UnAction: Pause Kendall to do a summary table

15:13:52 [AndyS]

Howard: Q about F2F process

15:14:05 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

15:14:05 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

15:14:24 [AndyS]

DanC: Need more data before decision on structure

15:14:36 [JosD]

q+

15:14:46 [JosD]

q+

15:14:47 [kendall]

andys: have i missed an eval of brql?

15:15:17 [AndyS]

DanC: If we miss the F2F we slip schedule but may be necessary

15:15:31 [AndyS]

Kendall - its in the BRQL.html doc

15:15:38 [AndyS]

And ref'ed in email I sent

15:16:14 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

15:16:14 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

15:16:16 [AndyS]

Poll answers can be revised - end is currently 5 July

15:16:21 [kendall]

+q to ask question about poll

15:16:31 [kendall]

q+ to ask question about poll

15:16:49 [AndyS]

Jos: is there code for each of the systems?

15:17:43 [AndyS]

XsRQL : path language mainly impl'ed , not triple constructors

15:17:55 [kendall]

q

15:17:56 [AndyS]

BRQL prototype

15:18:00 [kendall]

q?

15:19:19 [JosD]

q-

15:19:55 [FarrukhNajmi]

Is there a query language comparison matrix that we should develope?

15:20:02 [AndyS]

Kendall: How can we have a rank of protocol and QL?

15:20:08 [DaveB]

it's more, which one woudl you most like to start with?

15:20:26 [kendall]

Farr: I think that's sorta what I'm gonna do with the table, eventually

15:20:52 [AndyS]

DanC: Path is not new language from clean sheet - instead pick one and refine by an issues driven process

15:21:18 [AndyS]

"Borrow" other design features

15:22:10 [AndyS]

Kendall: Remove Joseki from list

15:22:20 [AndyS]

DanC: Two votes - protocol and QLs

15:22:38 [AndyS]

SimonR: BEEP in theory

15:23:02 [TomAdams]

BEEP in prototype :)

15:23:31 [AndyS]

DanC: Does Alberto want asemantics variant removed? Yes

15:24:25 [AndyS]

AOB?

15:24:42 [AndyS]

JimH: Public comments - who manages the process?

15:25:20 [AndyS]

JimH: e.g. Graham Klyne comments

15:25:34 [AndyS]

Editor responsibility at the moment

15:26:30 [alberto]

RDQL++ = BRQL almost - I will post short comments about BRQL to the list later

15:26:34 [AndyS]

JimH: Should be responsive - are we really listening to comments?

15:27:05 [AndyS]

Jimh: Useful to manage the comments and see where there is a match

15:28:01 [DaveB]

massimo's comments start http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Jun/0010.html

15:28:39 [DanC_jam]

RRSAgent, make logs public

15:28:49 [DanC_jam]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

15:29:02 [AndyS]

ACTION: DanC, restructure poll

15:29:19 [AndyS]

Meeting ends

15:29:22 [Zakim]

-Natasha

15:29:22 [DaveB]

bye

15:29:23 [Zakim]

-JosD

15:29:24 [Zakim]

-RobS

15:29:25 [Zakim]

-TomAdams

15:29:26 [Zakim]

-Alberto

15:29:26 [KevinW]

KevinW has left #dawg

15:29:27 [Zakim]

-DaveB

15:29:28 [Zakim]

-DanC

15:29:29 [Zakim]

-TayebJeffB

15:29:30 [Zakim]

-jimH

15:29:31 [Zakim]

-HowardK

15:29:34 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

15:29:35 [Zakim]

-Kevin

15:29:36 [TomAdams]

bye

15:29:37 [Zakim]

-Yoshio

15:29:40 [TomAdams]

TomAdams has left #dawg

15:29:46 [Zakim]

-Farrukh

15:29:55 [Yoshio]

bye

15:29:57 [FarrukhNajmi]

FarrukhNajmi has left #dawg

15:30:03 [Yoshio]

Yoshio has left #dawg

15:33:40 [ericP]

http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/perl/modules/W3C/Rdf/test/Optional2-alg.sh?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup

15:33:42 [Zakim]

-DavidWood

15:38:27 [AndyS]

rssagent, list actions

15:38:46 [AndyS]

rssagent, show actions

15:40:00 [AndyS]

rssagent, show action items

15:40:16 [ericP]

rrssagent?

15:40:24 [AndyS]

rrsagent, show action items

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

I see 8 open action items:

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JimH to work with Bijan to do some sort of UDDI/Web services use case [1]

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T14-46-45

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Farrukh write up ebXML registry UC [2]

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T14-47-16

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: SimonR, advocate this requirememtn [3]

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-00-44

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Kendall, edit to remove in-the-face URLs [4]

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-10-34

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Kendall, make a table in the doc [5]

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-10-48

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS, Evaluation of XsRQL for next Tuesday [6]

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-11-55

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Howard, send AndyS a draft main requirements [7]

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-12-11

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DanC, restructure poll [8]

15:40:24 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-dawg-irc#T15-29-02

15:57:47 [SteveH]

SteveH has left #dawg

15:58:01 [AndyS]

http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/BRQL/

16:06:07 [AndyS]

http://jena.sourceforge.net/javadoc/jena/rdfcompare.html

16:07:26 [Zakim]

-AndyS

16:12:34 [Zakim]

-EricP

16:12:35 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended

16:12:36 [Zakim]

Attendees were Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, Kevin, EricP, Natasha, RobS, AndyS, DavidWood, HowardK, Tayeb|JeffB, TomAdams, Alberto, DaveB, JosD, Farrukh, +1.603.837.aabb, jimH, DanC

19:00:23 [Zakim]

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