IRC log of dawg on 2004-06-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:30:30 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:30:31 [Zakim]: +EricP
14:30:37 [DanC]: agenda + Convene, take roll, review record, agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0625.html
14:30:38 [ericP]: zakim, who is here?
14:30:41 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +1.781.942.aaaa, Kevin, NickG, Yoshio, ??P5, EricP
14:30:51 [Zakim]: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ericP, JanneS, DanC, alberto, KevinW, SteveH, AndyS, DaveB, Yoshio, FarrukhNajmi, SimonR
14:30:52 [FarrukhNajmi]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0625.html
14:30:53 [DanC]: agenda + ftf update http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/DAWGf2f2/
14:31:00 [Zakim]: + +1.703.871.aabb
14:31:02 [DanC]: agenda + Use Cases and Requirements Doc
14:31:06 [Zakim]: +??P7
14:31:16 [DanC]: agenda + Review test materials http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~swh/TestSketchCases/
14:31:19 [SteveH]: I think I'm masqarading as NickG
14:31:20 [rob_]: rob_ has joined #dawg
14:31:25 [DanC]: agenda + Requirements
14:31:30 [Zakim]: +??P8
14:31:30 [ericP]: zaiim, ??P7 is Tom
14:31:34 [Zakim]: +RobS
14:31:38 [DanC]: agenda -4
14:31:39 [DanC]: agenda -5
14:31:49 [AndyS]: zakim, ??P8 is AndyS
14:31:49 [Zakim]: +[ASemantics]
14:31:50 [Zakim]: +AndyS; got it
14:31:52 [SteveH]: Zakim, NickG is SteveH
14:31:52 [Zakim]: +SteveH; got it
14:31:52 [ericP]: zakim, ??P8 is andy
14:31:53 [Zakim]: I already had ??P8 as AndyS, ericP
14:32:08 [tom]: tom has joined #dawg
14:32:10 [kendall]: kendall has joined #dawg
14:32:11 [DanC]: agenda + Review test materials http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~swh/TestSketchCases/
14:32:17 [ericP]: zakim, who is here?
14:32:17 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +1.781.942.aaaa, Kevin, SteveH, Yoshio, ??P5, EricP, +1.703.871.aabb, ??P7, AndyS, RobS, [ASemantics]
14:32:19 [Zakim]: On IRC I see kendall, tom, rob_, RRSAgent, Zakim, ericP, JanneS, DanC, alberto, KevinW, SteveH, AndyS, DaveB, Yoshio, FarrukhNajmi, SimonR
14:32:26 [DanC]: agenda -4
14:32:35 [DanC]: agenda + Requirements
14:32:39 [Zakim]: + +1.714.539.aacc
14:32:42 [Zakim]: +Kendall_Clark
14:32:48 [Zakim]: +DanC
14:32:58 [JosD]: JosD has joined #dawg
14:33:03 [ericP]: zakim, 1.781.942.aaaa is farrukh
14:33:04 [Zakim]: sorry, ericP, I do not recognize a party named '1.781.942.aaaa'
14:33:06 [Zakim]: -DanC
14:33:08 [Zakim]: +??P13
14:33:12 [Zakim]: +DanC
14:33:38 [JosD]: Zakim, ??P13 is JosD
14:33:38 [Zakim]: +JosD; got it
14:33:45 [ericP]: tx Jos
14:34:27 [FarrukhNajmi]: 1. Convene, take roll, review record, agenda
14:34:46 [DanC]: Zakim, take up agendum 1
14:34:46 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review record, agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0625.html" taken up [from DanC]
14:35:39 [Zakim]: +JimH
14:36:05 [DanC]: Dirk Colaert
14:37:11 [ericP]: U Maryland: Kendall, Jim
14:37:17 [ericP]: Panosonic: Yohsio
14:37:20 [kendall]: zakim, mute me
14:37:20 [Zakim]: Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:37:20 [ericP]: Net inf: Rob
14:37:26 [FarrukhNajmi]: JoshD, Dirk, Albert, AndyS, KevinW, Kendal, JimH, Yoshio, RobS, Farrukh
14:37:31 [ericP]: Janne
14:37:47 [ericP]: Tom Adams
14:38:02 [ericP]: DaveB
14:38:06 [ericP]: Steve Harris
14:38:10 [FarrukhNajmi]: Thx. Eric
14:38:11 [ericP]: -Pat Hayes
14:38:14 [ericP]: np
14:38:21 [ericP]: -Howard (excused)
14:38:26 [DanC]: regrets
14:38:31 [ericP]: tx
14:38:40 [ericP]: W3C: DanC, EricP
14:39:13 [FarrukhNajmi]: Accepted Minutes of RDF DAWG telecon Tuesday 2004-06-08 for review
14:39:13 [FarrukhNajmi]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0547.html
14:39:13 [FarrukhNajmi]: as ammended Wed, 09 Jun 2004 08:14:00 -0500 by Connolly
14:39:33 [DanC]: Zakim, agenda?
14:39:33 [Zakim]: I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
14:39:34 [Zakim]: 1. Convene, take roll, review record, agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0625.html [from DanC]
14:39:37 [Zakim]: 2. ftf update http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/DAWGf2f2/ [from DanC]
14:39:38 [Zakim]: 3. Use Cases and Requirements Doc [from DanC]
14:39:39 [Zakim]: 4. Review test materials http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~swh/TestSketchCases/ [from DanC]
14:39:40 [Zakim]: 5. Requirements [from DanC]
14:40:28 [FarrukhNajmi]: Dan: Any additional agenda items?
14:40:33 [DanC]: Zakim, next agendum
14:40:33 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "ftf update http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/DAWGf2f2/" taken up [from DanC]
14:40:44 [FarrukhNajmi]: Ken: Need to review additional new use cases
14:41:14 [FarrukhNajmi]: ?: Have a new registration form mechanism
14:41:34 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS: 7 people have replied so far
14:41:41 [kendall]: paste the registration doodad into IRC?
14:41:47 [kendall]: uri, i mean
14:41:50 [Yoshio]: I have a credibility problem
14:42:02 [Yoshio]: EricP knows
14:42:07 [ericP]: lol
14:42:07 [FarrukhNajmi]: 2. ftf update
14:42:07 [FarrukhNajmi]: ALL F2F2 registration at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/DAWGf2f2/
14:42:23 [DanC]: Zakim, next agendum
14:42:23 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Use Cases and Requirements Doc" taken up [from DanC]
14:42:37 [DanC]: DONE: ACTION EricP to send announcement of UC&R to rdfs-rules list
14:42:51 [kendall]: zakim, unmute me
14:42:51 [Zakim]: Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:42:56 [DaveB]: I claim my action done
14:43:08 [DanC]: ACTION: Kendall: consider the larger comments from Brian and Yoshio post-publication
14:43:11 [DanC]: (continues)
14:43:23 [ericP]: zakim, who is speaking?
14:43:34 [Zakim]: ericP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.781.942.aaaa (66%), RobS (4%), JimH (23%), DanC (94%)
14:43:55 [DanC]: DONE ACTION Kendall to dispose of "3.3a Extensible Value Testing" variant
14:44:00 [ericP]: pointer to the -commnts list: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Jun/thread.html
14:44:12 [ericP]: (plus one from last month on previous archive page)
14:44:35 [ericP]: (plus one from last month on previous archive page)
14:44:55 [DanC]: DONE ACTION Kendall effect "RESOLVED to adopt 3.9 as an objective"
14:44:55 [DanC]: (not recorded)
14:45:15 [DaveB]: it's in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0628.html
14:46:02 [FarrukhNajmi]: DONE ACTION DaveB: write up this educational metadata UC
14:46:10 [kendall]: q+ to say +1
14:46:35 [FarrukhNajmi]: ? free text sreach would be useful addition
14:46:39 [kendall]: zakim, mute me
14:46:39 [Zakim]: Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:47:01 [FarrukhNajmi]: s/sreach/search/
14:47:05 [kendall]: zakim, unmute me
14:47:05 [Zakim]: Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:47:27 [FarrukhNajmi]: ?: Should we include this new use case
14:47:35 [tom]: +1
14:47:39 [kendall]: zakim, mute me
14:47:39 [Zakim]: Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:47:43 [FarrukhNajmi]: Lots of comments in favour of inclusion
14:47:46 [kendall]: q-
14:47:57 [FarrukhNajmi]: None against inclusion.
14:48:09 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Editor has been advised to include
14:48:15 [DaveB]: yay
14:48:59 [kendall]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0529.html
14:49:35 [FarrukhNajmi]: Whose speaking?
14:49:40 [AndyS]: Rob is
14:49:50 [kendall]: Rob Shearer
14:50:43 [FarrukhNajmi]: Can someone summarize the discussion. I am losing the thread
14:52:31 [tom]: tom has joined #dawg
14:52:39 [kendall]: zakim, unmute me
14:52:39 [Zakim]: Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:55:37 [Yoshio]: q+ to ask what is the relatinship to the "tell me about" query issue at the end of the day?
14:56:58 [AndyS]: One thing is that came out in email was getting RDFList structures is hard without that, Yoshio..
14:57:01 [Yoshio]: * I think short summary is needed on IRC
14:57:26 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC can you verbally summarize the record worthy points of this discussion to help scribe.
14:57:39 [DanC]: ok, I'll try to summarize
14:58:00 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Sumary of thread
14:58:18 [DanC]: ack yoshio
14:58:18 [Zakim]: Yoshio, you wanted to ask what is the relatinship to the "tell me about" query issue at the end of the day?
14:58:28 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS has some concerns on the new use case RDFS/OWL related
14:59:18 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Understand that the use case deals with Vanilla Graph queries and not "Tell Me About" queries
14:59:32 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS: Agreed with DanC
14:59:48 [DanC]: s/RobS/AndyS/ I think
15:00:07 [FarrukhNajmi]: Robs speaking?
15:00:08 [AndyS]: Yes - AndyS
15:00:23 [AndyS]: always agrees with the chair :-) Well..
15:00:32 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS: Concerned about any mention of OWL in specific
15:00:52 [FarrukhNajmi]: ACtion: JIH elaborate use case in stopry form
15:00:59 [FarrukhNajmi]: s/JIH/JimH/
15:01:06 [rob_]: my concern was about endorsing approach to OWL that doesn't work in general
15:01:19 [kendall]: Action: JimH elaborate his proposed use case in story form
15:01:26 [kendall]: zakim, unmute me
15:01:26 [Zakim]: Kendall_Clark was not muted, kendall
15:01:35 [DanC]: How Many comment http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Jun/0004.html
15:01:35 [ericP]: incoming comments: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Jun/thread.html
15:01:42 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Anyone read incoming comments on UC&R?
15:01:56 [Yoshio]: * speaking?
15:01:58 [kendall]: same as it's always been
15:01:59 [DanC]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases
15:02:11 [Yoshio]: * or sleeping?
15:02:23 [alberto]: it seems Jim use-cased relates to DaveB about "give me useful stuff about X" and the RDF/S and/or thesaurus API - see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0063.html
15:02:44 [SteveH]: kendall: it not linked from the forntpage anymore (AFAICT)
15:03:00 [DaveB]: Thinking about my new UC, I think it also motivates (at least allowing) RDFS inferncing
15:03:00 [kendall]: Steve: ouch. Hmm, complain to DanC 'bout that, I think
15:03:16 [kendall]: DaveB: I'll make note of that
15:03:28 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Swedish name writes how about how many requirements. This one scares me.
15:03:45 [tom]: I think a "count" is very important. Simon: Can you comment?
15:03:45 [kendall]: daveb: do you mean 4.6?
15:03:46 [FarrukhNajmi]: b) How do u know the documents are different
15:03:51 [FarrukhNajmi]: Whats was a?
15:04:14 [alberto]: DaveB - ok
15:04:41 [SimonR]: tom: I agree, but I'm listening to other people for a moment about it....
15:04:45 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Start with list of triples (input doc, take its deductive closure) and query over it
15:05:02 [FarrukhNajmi]: Whose speaking. RobS?
15:05:16 [SteveH]: FarrukhNajmi: yes
15:05:17 [kendall]: Farr: yes
15:05:52 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Inclined to say NO
15:06:10 [ericP]: zakim, q+ to show how to get on the speaker queue
15:06:11 [AndyS]: q+ to talk about count in select and count in pattern
15:06:11 [Zakim]: I see ericP on the speaker queue
15:06:23 [ericP]: q-
15:06:36 [FarrukhNajmi]: SimonR: One thing we could do is support aggregate functions that are functions of a result \
15:06:40 [DanC]: ack andy
15:06:40 [Zakim]: AndyS, you wanted to talk about count in select and count in pattern
15:07:03 [tom]: Yes, I think we're talking about counts over the result sets.
15:07:16 [ericP]: +1
15:07:16 [KevinW]: q
15:07:32 [SimonR]: Typical aggregate functions: count(), average(), minimum(), etc.
15:07:34 [kendall]: kevin: "q+"
15:07:38 [SteveH]: +1
15:07:39 [ericP]: Kevin, asking for the queue is "q?"
15:07:45 [KevinW]: q+
15:07:48 [SteveH]: +1 to AndyS that is
15:07:49 [DanC]: ack kevin
15:08:04 [kendall]: zakim, mute me
15:08:04 [Zakim]: Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:08:11 [FarrukhNajmi]: Kevin: This is related to limits. If we did limits then not a big extension to do count
15:08:15 [kendall]: +1 on danc's type/token distinction
15:08:31 [JosD]: q+ to mention the case of list elements
15:08:41 [DanC]: ack jos
15:08:41 [Zakim]: JosD, you wanted to mention the case of list elements
15:08:50 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Next step is for someone to propose what to do about this
15:09:00 [tom]: Can we not bind the value of a count to a variable, feed this back into a query? We certainly use this feature a lot.
15:09:18 [FarrukhNajmi]: JosD: You cannot avoid the cases where count is useful
15:09:33 [Yoshio]: average() ? then variance()... I think count () is enough
15:09:44 [SteveH]: Yoshio: i agree
15:09:53 [tom]: DanC, Yes, I'm willing to write back...
15:09:55 [afs]: afs has joined #dawg
15:09:56 [kendall]: zakim, unmute me
15:09:56 [Zakim]: Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
15:09:59 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Can someone write back to sender that this is interesting point
15:10:08 [FarrukhNajmi]: Tom: WIlling to do so
15:10:11 [FarrukhNajmi]: Who was second?
15:10:17 [SimonR]: Yoshio: The question of which aggregate functions we support is a separate issue, but there should be some generic method of including them.
15:10:28 [ericP]: I was, but ducked out in favor of Tom
15:10:32 [Yoshio]: I agree
15:10:39 [Yoshio]: to SimonR
15:10:42 [FarrukhNajmi]: ACTION: Tom to folloowup
15:11:02 [afs]: :AndyS sameAs :afs
15:11:02 [FarrukhNajmi]: on posting response to sender and make no comittements on behalf of WG
15:11:14 [Yoshio]: yea
15:11:41 [FarrukhNajmi]: Where are we in agenda?
15:11:58 [DaveB]: sec 3 use cases
15:12:03 [SimonR]: DanC: Is this content selection for mobile devices draft based on CC/PP?
15:12:18 [kendall]: zakim, mute me
15:12:18 [Zakim]: Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:12:30 [FarrukhNajmi]: Whose speaking?
15:12:31 [DaveB]: SteveH
15:13:03 [kendall]: zakim, unmute me
15:13:03 [Zakim]: Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
15:13:04 [FarrukhNajmi]: SteveH: Maybe we can get them to write what the query might look like
15:13:19 [FarrukhNajmi]: Speaker?
15:13:32 [tom]: tom has joined #dawg
15:13:32 [kendall]: +1 RobS's point
15:13:45 [DanC]: kendall, if you agree with rob's point, it would help to write it down
15:13:54 [DanC]: I and the scribe are struggling to follow
15:13:59 [FarrukhNajmi]: Sorry I lost it
15:14:12 [DanC]: no apology necessary
15:14:19 [Yoshio]: * Let's make more use of IRC!
15:14:35 [FarrukhNajmi]: Trying... New to scribe and WG.
15:14:36 [kendall]: DanC: huh?
15:14:43 [kendall]: in IRC or in document?
15:15:45 [FarrukhNajmi]: ?: WOuld be nice to have a liason
15:15:51 [ericP]: DanC: acceptable to not liason with DI, but it would be nice to do so.
15:16:03 [SimonR]: (That was from me Farrukh, the "liaison" comment)
15:16:25 [rob_]: boolean or "grounded" queries
15:16:34 [ericP]: count(*) > 0 is a true or false answer
15:16:35 [FarrukhNajmi]: ? Want to be able to form a query that return boolean values
15:17:13 [afs]: Or "LIMIT 1" - allows the query to stop as soon as one thing found.
15:17:27 [FarrukhNajmi]: ?: Special case of zero variables returning boolean value is a special case of varaible bindings
15:17:39 [FarrukhNajmi]: What was teh ACTION?
15:17:41 [DanC]: ACTION Simon: write to the WG about boolean queries
15:17:53 [SimonR]: ACTION: I'll write to the list and explain how a variable bind with zero variables is equivalent to boolean queries.
15:18:02 [ericP]: ACTION Simon: explain how reporting 0 veriable bindings is equivilent to boolean response.
15:18:32 [ericP]: hmm, i shouldn't have tried to clarify cause i can't remember how to get rid of 4
15:18:37 [DanC]: Zakim, next agendum
15:18:37 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "Review test materials http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~swh/TestSketchCases/" taken up [from DanC]
15:18:38 [ericP]: sorry simon
15:18:50 [Zakim]: -JimH
15:19:29 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Had discussion of datatype queries, somewhat tangential but did uncover some intersting impl experience
15:19:33 [SimonR]: ericP: NP. We're just all so redundantly helpful. :)
15:20:05 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: EricP has written up a couple of tests
15:20:25 [FarrukhNajmi]: Where are they: http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~swh/TestSketchCases/ ?
15:20:27 [DaveB]: ericp disjunction http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0615.html
15:20:27 [ericP]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0598.html
15:20:37 [DanC]: disjunction implementation http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0630.html
15:20:53 [Yoshio]: Zakim, mute Yoshio
15:20:53 [Zakim]: Yoshio should now be muted
15:21:46 [FarrukhNajmi]: Whats teh Action?
15:22:17 [ericP]: start with "ACTION Steve:"
15:22:34 [SteveH]: ACTION: SteveH to add ericP's disjunctions tests to test cases doc
15:22:41 [kendall]: is there a way to have the bot tell us which actions it knows about?
15:22:54 [DanC]: RRSAgent, list actions
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: I see 6 open action items:
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Kendall: consider the larger comments from Brian and Yoshio post-publication [1]
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/15-dawg-irc#T14-43-08
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Tom to folloowup [2]
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/15-dawg-irc#T15-10-42
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Simon to write to the WG about boolean queries [3]
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/15-dawg-irc#T15-17-41
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: I'll write to the list and explain how a variable bind with zero variables is equivalent to boolean queries. [4]
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/15-dawg-irc#T15-17-53
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Simon to explain how reporting 0 veriable bindings is equivilent to boolean response. [5]
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/15-dawg-irc#T15-18-02
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: SteveH to add ericP's disjunctions tests to test cases doc [6]
15:22:54 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/15-dawg-irc#T15-22-34
15:23:29 [DanC]: Zakim, next agendum
15:23:29 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Requirements" taken up [from DanC]
15:23:49 [FarrukhNajmi]: -- 3.4 Subgraph Results
15:24:23 [kendall]: i believe jimh's action item is missing from the bot...fwiw
15:24:37 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Robs had said ...?. Eric gave an example of subgraph results
15:24:46 [Yoshio]: I wonder if we can live without the "sub" but just "graph results"
15:24:54 [kendall]: ACTION: JimH to elaborate his use case.
15:25:02 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS: Does not explain how it matches either
15:26:10 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS: Comes down to last 4 words of sub-graph results.
15:26:23 [FarrukhNajmi]: Kendal: Already stricken.
15:26:38 [DanC]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases#r3.4
15:27:37 [Zakim]: +PatH
15:27:39 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Anyone object to adopting r3.4
15:27:51 [FarrukhNajmi]: ?
15:27:58 [DaveB]: Simon speaking
15:28:04 [FarrukhNajmi]: Simon and Ronb abstain
15:28:05 [patH]: patH has joined #dawg
15:28:08 [Yoshio]: abstain
15:28:14 [FarrukhNajmi]: s/Ronb/RobS/
15:28:41 [FarrukhNajmi]: AndyS: Does that mean we are striking 3.4a
15:28:45 [FarrukhNajmi]: Kendal: Kill it
15:29:06 [FarrukhNajmi]: Whats teh decision?
15:29:14 [kendall]: ACTION: Strike 3.4a from doc
15:29:26 [kendall]: ACTION: Move 3.4's status to ACCEPTED.
15:29:47 [FarrukhNajmi]: -- 3.6 Optional Match
15:30:05 [FarrukhNajmi]: ?: How to format
15:30:16 [jhendler]: jhendler has joined #dawg
15:30:29 [FarrukhNajmi]: Kendall: Prefer ASCII format
15:31:04 [FarrukhNajmi]: Several people prefer ASCII
15:31:10 [FarrukhNajmi]: What is the format for?
15:31:33 [Zakim]: +[UMD]
15:31:35 [SimonR]: It's for displaying sample results in tabular form.
15:31:40 [jhendler]: zakim, [umd] is jimH
15:31:40 [Zakim]: +jimH; got it
15:31:58 [FarrukhNajmi]: 3.8 Bookmarkable Queries
15:32:12 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: No update. ACTION continues
15:32:55 [FarrukhNajmi]: Discuss timing of f2f first day....
15:33:44 [FarrukhNajmi]: How long a drive from LAX to venue. 90 Miles
15:34:05 [tom]: tom has joined #dawg
15:34:06 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Chair nervous about people traveling day of meeting
15:34:22 [FarrukhNajmi]: EricP: wants 30 min delay on first day of f2f
15:35:53 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Use reg form for ride coordination instead of WG list
15:36:10 [FarrukhNajmi]: Not many people coming day of meeting
15:37:34 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: Start 9AM on day 1 of f2f
15:37:43 [FarrukhNajmi]: Decision
15:38:05 [DanC]: round streamable doodad http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0566.html
15:38:12 [DaveB]: my reply http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0569.html
15:38:30 [DaveB]: oops grammar
15:39:05 [FarrukhNajmi]: AndyS: WOuld rather not have optional addition
15:39:53 [DaveB]: "When returning multiple results there must be a form of the protocol
15:39:53 [DaveB]: that allows streaming of results. In this form, the results must be
15:39:53 [DaveB]: returned to the client so that all the data in one result are
15:39:53 [DaveB]: available before all the data for the next result."
15:40:08 [DaveB]: +"This does not require an ordering of results"
15:41:06 [FarrukhNajmi]: Several people for adding this requirements.
15:41:13 [FarrukhNajmi]: Whose rasing conecrn?
15:41:16 [DaveB]: RobS
15:41:16 [kendall]: RobS
15:41:39 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS: Not in favor of adding this
15:41:41 [kendall]: it's not more or less detailed than many other reqs
15:42:01 [kendall]: danc: it seems to be someone in Boston. 781 area code.
15:42:05 [kendall]: the breather, i mean
15:42:07 [FarrukhNajmi]: Not me
15:42:11 [FarrukhNajmi]: Im on mute
15:42:16 [FarrukhNajmi]: and not breating much
15:42:19 [kendall]: Farr: :>
15:42:25 [Yoshio]: '^_^)
15:42:48 [patH]: when the chair asks everyone to stop breathing, we rebel, OK?
15:43:01 [kendall]: hehe
15:44:13 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS: Not worded in terms that client is asking for streaming of results
15:44:36 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS: When return multiple results is irrelevant
15:44:54 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS: The fact that such a protocol exists does not mean the server is using it
15:45:12 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC: DO you have a technical reason for not supporting this?
15:45:56 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS: The words in teh requirement are not requiring that server stream results
15:46:20 [FarrukhNajmi]: Simon speaking?
15:46:24 [kendall]: JanneS.
15:46:35 [jhendler]: q+ re: some query protocols and how they did this
15:46:36 [SimonR]: Farrukh: No, I'm nor speaking.
15:46:41 [SimonR]: nor/not
15:46:47 [jhendler]: q+ to mention some query protocols and how they did this
15:46:52 [FarrukhNajmi]: ACTION: Andy will write email clarifying this
15:47:16 [DanC]: ack jhendler
15:47:16 [Zakim]: jhendler, you wanted to mention some query protocols and how they did this
15:48:32 [FarrukhNajmi]: JimH: A lot of things that do remote SQL server designed for knowl;edge base queries instead of db queries often assume that you have a lot of results
15:48:41 [kendall]: JimH points out that many remote KB query protocols don't return results but, rather, a number and a pointer, so that client could "control" the returning of results.
15:48:49 [DanC]: ack ericp
15:48:52 [kendall]: JimH mentions OKBC, Parka, SQL, other stuff
15:48:52 [DanC]: ack kendall
15:49:35 [FarrukhNajmi]: Kendal: We need to ack that there is significant support to add this use case
15:49:49 [kendall]: ACTION: JimH to send mail desribing the history of remote KB query, including any mention of Denial of Service problems that may be relevant.
15:50:20 [kendall]: can i edit an action?
15:50:33 [Yoshio]: * breathman again
15:50:55 [kendall]: Return of BreathMan
15:51:04 [FarrukhNajmi]: Its not me
15:51:18 [afs]: I'm muted locally
15:51:32 [SimonR]: Does anyone know the web architecture principles recommendation well enough to know whether there's a principle against stateful services?
15:51:53 [kendall]: Simon: there isn't really anything explicitly, as I recall.
15:52:28 [FarrukhNajmi]: RobS: Who is interested in adding requirement on disjunction?
15:52:43 [Yoshio]: yoshio
15:53:06 [FarrukhNajmi]: Its not me. Please believe me :->
15:53:17 [kendall]: Farrukh: I do. :>
15:53:53 [tom]: Yes, I'm on mute also...
15:54:03 [kendall]: who's in boston area?
15:54:10 [FarrukhNajmi]: Me. But its not me
15:54:13 [kendall]: it seems to be from an un-zakim-identified caller. :>
15:54:22 [tom]: tom has joined #dawg
15:54:46 [FarrukhNajmi]: ACTION: EricP to chair in DanC absence. DanC traveling next week.
15:55:09 [Zakim]: -[ASemantics]
15:55:11 [Zakim]: -??P5
15:55:12 [Zakim]: -RobS
15:55:15 [Zakim]: -Kevin
15:55:17 [DanC]: RRSAgent, make logs world
15:55:18 [Zakim]: -??P7
15:55:21 [KevinW]: KevinW has left #dawg
15:55:23 [FarrukhNajmi]: Thanks for all the help every one.
15:55:26 [Zakim]: -JosD
15:55:30 [DaveB]: looks like I was ??P7, heyho
15:55:30 [Zakim]: - +1.781.942.aaaa
15:55:38 [Yoshio]: Good bye Breathman
15:55:39 [Zakim]: -jimH
15:55:40 [Zakim]: -Kendall_Clark
15:55:40 [DaveB]: DaveB has left #dawg
15:55:45 [kendall]: Death to Breathman!
15:55:48 [kendall]: :>
15:55:50 [Zakim]: -SteveH
15:55:52 [FarrukhNajmi]: Did I say it was not me :-;
15:55:54 [ericP]: yoshio?
15:55:55 [FarrukhNajmi]: :-;
15:55:59 [Yoshio]: yes?
15:56:00 [kendall]: Farrukh: really?! :>
15:56:09 [tom]: Bye all.
15:56:10 [ericP]: could you apply for another account?
15:56:11 [FarrukhNajmi]: FarrukhNajmi has left #dawg
15:56:19 [Zakim]: - +1.703.871.aabb
15:56:20 [Yoshio]: what do you mean?
15:56:26 [Zakim]: -PatH
15:56:33 [Zakim]: - +1.714.539.aacc
15:56:37 [Zakim]: -DanC
15:56:48 [Yoshio]: Did they give me another account?
15:56:48 [Zakim]: -AndyS
15:56:49 [ericP]: yoship, are you still dialed in?
15:56:56 [ericP]: yoshio?
15:57:03 [afs]: afs has left #dawg
15:57:11 [ericP]: zakim, who's here?
15:57:11 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Yoshio (muted), EricP
15:57:12 [Zakim]: On IRC I see jhendler, patH, kendall, RRSAgent, Zakim, ericP, DanC, SteveH, Yoshio
15:57:12 [Yoshio]: no, hanged up
15:57:18 [Yoshio]: ?
15:57:22 [ericP]: zakim missed it
15:57:24 [Zakim]: -Yoshio
15:57:31 [Zakim]: -EricP
15:57:32 [Zakim]: SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
15:57:33 [Zakim]: Attendees were +1.781.942.aaaa, Kevin, Yoshio, EricP, +1.703.871.aabb, RobS, [ASemantics], AndyS, SteveH, +1.714.539.aacc, Kendall_Clark, DanC, JosD, JimH, PatH
16:11:54 [DanC]: kendall, yes, you can edit an action
16:12:07 [DanC]: ala: action 7 = ...replacement text...
16:19:18 [SteveH]: SteveH has left #dawg
17:04:44 [FarrukhNajmi]: FarrukhNajmi has joined #DAWG
17:07:25 [FarrukhNajmi]: DanC where can I find the IRC log? I accidently closed the window. If not available online could you mail it to me? Thanks for all the help today.
17:08:29 [FarrukhNajmi]: ericP in case DanC is out, would you be able to help with above?
17:31:35 [DanC]: RRSAgent, pointer?
17:31:35 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2004/06/15-dawg-irc#T17-31-35
17:31:47 [DanC]: there, FarrukhNajmi
17:31:53 [FarrukhNajmi]: Thanks
17:32:02 [FarrukhNajmi]: looking
17:32:16 [DanC]: you can take the #T... part off
17:32:17 [FarrukhNajmi]: Thx. cu
17:32:25 [DanC]: welcome
18:56:30 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #dawg
20:39:25 [FarrukhNajmi]: FarrukhNajmi has left #DAWG