IRC log of wai-wcag on 2004-06-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:58:54 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag

13:58:56 [sh1mmer]

Zakim, this is WAI_WCAG

13:58:56 [Zakim]

sh1mmer, I see WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be WAI_WCAG".

13:59:02 [sh1mmer]

Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG

13:59:02 [Zakim]

ok, sh1mmer; I see WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

13:59:10 [MichaelC]

rrsagent, make logs world-visible

13:59:35 [sh1mmer]

Hi Michael

13:59:45 [MichaelC]

hi tom

13:59:51 [MichaelC]

you're meeting with yvette today?

13:59:59 [Zakim]

WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has now started

14:00:02 [Zakim]

+Don_Evans

14:00:06 [Zakim]

+Tim_Boland

14:00:10 [bcaldwell]

bcaldwell has joined #wai-wcag

14:00:17 [Zakim]

+Michael_Cooper

14:00:19 [MichaelC]

zakim, I am Michael_Cooper

14:00:19 [Zakim]

ok, MichaelC, I now associate you with Michael_Cooper

14:00:19 [sh1mmer]

Already did, got back half an hour ago and then spent 30 mins on the phone to an organisation working with kids with LD

14:00:28 [donaldfevans]

donaldfevans has joined #wai-wcag

14:00:44 [sh1mmer]

Now I am bushed ;)

14:01:39 [Zakim]

+??P11

14:01:43 [Zakim]

+??P12

14:01:49 [bcaldwell]

zakim, ??P11 is Ben

14:01:53 [Zakim]

+Ben; got it

14:02:01 [bcaldwell]

zakim, ??P12 is David

14:02:02 [Zakim]

+David; got it

14:02:02 [Zakim]

+Tom_Croucher

14:02:08 [sh1mmer]

Zakim, I am Tom

14:02:08 [Zakim]

ok, sh1mmer, I now associate you with Tom_Croucher

14:02:09 [bcaldwell]

zakim, I am Ben

14:02:09 [Zakim]

ok, bcaldwell, I now associate you with Ben

14:02:11 [Zakim]

+Wendy

14:02:19 [Zakim]

+Jim_Thatcher

14:02:29 [Zakim]

+Becky_Gibson

14:02:40 [Becky]

Becky has joined #wai-wcag

14:02:44 [wendy]

wendy has joined #wai-wcag

14:02:57 [JimT]

JimT has joined #wai-wcag

14:03:09 [wendy]

zakim, who's on the phone?

14:03:09 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Tim_Boland, Don_Evans, Michael_Cooper, Ben, David, Tom_Croucher (muted), Wendy, Jim_Thatcher, Becky_Gibson

14:04:59 [MichaelC]

-- mapping --

14:05:00 [MichaelC]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004AprJun/0591.html

14:06:00 [wendy]

starting with gl-to-html mapping with notes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004AprJun/att-0593/2004-06-07gl-to-htmltech_notes.html

14:07:36 [Zakim]

+??P25

14:08:06 [wendy]

zakim, ??P25 is Lisa_Seeman

14:08:06 [Zakim]

+Lisa_Seeman; got it

14:08:34 [MichaelC]

non-text still needs a label (1.1 SC 2) even if it's accessible

14:10:19 [Zakim]

+Sailesh_Panchang

14:10:19 [wendy]

long descriptions of maps (e.g.,) fall under 1st level 1 criterion.

14:12:09 [wendy]

believe the inention for level 3 criterion was specific for multimedia.

14:13:04 [wendy]

if that's the appropriate interpretation, move everything up to level 1 success criteria? yes.

14:13:41 [wendy]

if interpretation correct, not have anything for level 3 criterion since html doesn't create multimedia?

14:13:48 [wendy]

what does that mean for the checklist?

14:14:03 [MichaelC]

action: Michael approach larger group on interpretation of 1.1.3.1 and request clarified wording if our interpretation is correct

14:14:07 [wendy]

in some cases we have "or" relationships between techniques, in other cases have "and" relationships

14:16:57 [wendy]

is following one technique sufficient for meeting a given criterion?

14:17:04 [wendy]

depends on the context. sometimes need to follow 2.

14:17:41 [wendy]

html techs address if an img has alt, general techniques will say more about making alt text "good"

14:18:59 [wendy]

michael - i think we should move on. try to get through each of these and look for patterns of issues, things to take to WCAG WG.

14:19:05 [sh1mmer]

q+

14:19:20 [MichaelC]

yeah

14:19:32 [sh1mmer]

q-

14:20:19 [wendy]

agenda+ lisa's question about length of text equivalents

14:20:58 [wendy]

1.2 - webcams - think the html technique is a link to another site.

14:22:19 [wendy]

1.3

14:22:20 [wendy]

color

14:22:46 [wendy]

color ratios - general techniques

14:23:00 [wendy]

html: if define foreground, also define background

14:23:13 [wendy]

define in css

14:23:24 [wendy]

how not to use the font element?

14:24:17 [wendy]

a place where good to include css techniques in html techniques

14:24:35 [wendy]

guidelines say structure well, but don't say 'style well'

14:24:42 [wendy]

'style available independently of structure'

14:24:56 [wendy]

isn't that this guideline? yes, but no success criterion.

14:26:36 [wendy]

is "what not to do" fully testable? primary point (of what not to do) is educational.

14:26:39 [sh1mmer]

wendy can we have that as an item to pass on or propose as a SC?

14:26:56 [wendy]

yes, last time michael took an action item...maybe we can put him on the hook again. ;)

14:27:00 [sh1mmer]

heh

14:27:25 [wendy]

human testers could reliably agree when something is meant as a heading or not.

14:27:30 [Zakim]

-Lisa_Seeman

14:27:57 [wendy]

question about foreground: how are we using the term?

14:28:18 [wendy]

is it about importance or style?

14:28:26 [wendy]

text - foreground, anything else as background.

14:28:58 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose SC for separation of structure and presentation

14:29:55 [wendy]

high contrast mode (color), most of those techniques show up under CSS.

14:30:05 [wendy]

generatl technique: colors have adequate contrast

14:30:18 [wendy]

possible general: author-defined colors can replaced by user-defined

14:30:25 [wendy]

html: use css to make it possible

14:30:39 [wendy]

avoid html techs that say "use css" but may need to go that route

14:31:02 [sh1mmer]

q+

14:31:33 [sh1mmer]

ack Tom

14:31:39 [wendy]

ask group to clarify foreground/background

14:31:43 [MichaelC]

action: Michael ask WG for definition of foreground and background

14:31:57 [wendy]

css wg combining backgrounds and borders since people want to have rounded borders

14:32:01 [wendy]

(using images)

14:32:08 [wendy]

1.4

14:32:53 [wendy]

Do we want a technique that says use HTML plus CSS instead of images?

14:34:08 [wendy]

can turn css off. can't do that with an image. w/css can resize the text or change colors.

14:34:38 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose technique to recommend using HTML + CSS instead of text in images (contrast, text equivalents, resizing)

14:35:29 [wendy]

We need a technique about the "background" attribute.

14:35:49 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose technique to strongly recommend against using "background" attribute to put in a background image

14:36:22 [wendy]

related to issue about success criteiron that separates style and structure?

14:37:48 [wendy]

"here are the things you would rather you do in css rather than html (background images, color, ...)

14:37:53 [wendy]

a single technique?

14:38:20 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose techniques for all the things in HTML we'd prefer to see in CSS

14:39:19 [wendy]

way to tie in other documents? e.g., how to choose which techs are needed for 1.1. general define parts of that. how do we use techs in css to define which html techs we're going to require.

14:39:35 [wendy]

use general to determine what is "required" in each tech.

14:39:43 [wendy]

general discussion about how things tie together.

14:40:27 [wendy]

agenda+ to say "how documents tie together"

14:40:40 [wendy]

1.5 - none

14:40:48 [wendy]

2.1

14:41:17 [wendy]

image map: partly keyboard access, partly basic access

14:41:28 [wendy]

appear more than one place?

14:42:23 [wendy]

primary and secondary relationships.

14:42:57 [wendy]

i.e., appears in one place, but then say "by meeting, you also satisfy 1.1"

14:43:59 [wendy]

use client-side b/c operable by keyboard.

14:45:14 [wendy]

alt for area - 3.2 (target of each link is clearly identified)

14:45:17 [wendy]

rather than 1.1

14:45:35 [wendy]

image maps are not non-text elements...clickable areas are links (rather than non-text elements)

14:47:05 [wendy]

but, ends up on level 3 - not good.

14:47:17 [wendy]

requiring redundant links? should we deprecate?

14:47:52 [MichaelC]

action: MIchael propose mark text links for CSIM as deprecated (need to double check with users)

14:48:57 [MichaelC]

action: Michael map image map stuff to multiple SC (text equivalents, functionality available, keyboard access, clear link text)

14:49:23 [wendy]

"functionality of the content" what about javascript? that's included in the content.

14:49:36 [wendy]

placeholder javascript technique

14:49:49 [wendy]

in html spec, have events (onclick, etc.)

14:50:31 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose HTML techniques for event handlers

14:51:48 [wendy]

Difference between level 1 and level 3? If the functionality is so complex that do describe it takes a book chapter, becomes level 3.

14:51:59 [wendy]

s/do/to

14:52:07 [MichaelC]

action: Michael drop 2.1.3.1 CSIM text links mapping

14:52:13 [wendy]

2.2

14:52:39 [wendy]

Level 2 : The user is allowed to turn off content that blinks for more than 3 seconds. - a user agent issue?

14:53:53 [MichaelC]

action: Michael create BLINK and MARQUEE element techniques

14:53:57 [wendy]

html technique for blink - "what *not* to do"

14:54:21 [wendy]

animated gifs - only loop 3 times.

14:54:51 [wendy]

although - if press escape in IE, stops animation

14:55:20 [wendy]

what about flash, javascript, etc. when the user agent doesn't know that the content is blinking.

14:55:23 [wendy]

?

14:55:44 [sh1mmer]

q+

14:56:23 [sh1mmer]

q-

14:56:28 [sh1mmer]

wendy said it all

14:56:28 [sh1mmer]

:)

14:56:32 [wendy]

:)

14:57:22 [wendy]

in some cases, it is a user agent issue if the author has provided semantics (blink). when semantics are not provided (javascript, flash) UA does not know what is blinking/moving.

14:57:24 [wendy]

2.4

14:57:50 [wendy]

2.2 - lots of general techniques?

14:58:19 [wendy]

use headers, if don't like the way they look, style them.

14:58:44 [wendy]

combine 'style headers' with 'user headers, darnnit'

14:59:07 [wendy]

s/darnnit/darn it

14:59:27 [MichaelC]

action: Michael combine 'style headers' with 'user headers, darnnit'

15:01:13 [wendy]

5 minute break

15:01:23 [Zakim]

-David

15:07:17 [Zakim]

+??P38

15:07:33 [MichaelC]

action: Tom propose technique for TOC in a page

15:07:44 [MichaelC]

zakim, ??P38 is David_MacDonald

15:07:44 [Zakim]

+David_MacDonald; got it

15:09:09 [wendy]

many issues w/2.4. skip for now.

15:11:40 [wendy]

technique ought to specify that it is about layout tables, for dta under 1.3

15:11:58 [wendy]

html tech: Linear reading order of tables

15:12:40 [wendy]

if linearizing tables maps here, is it level 3?

15:14:05 [wendy]

criterion about document or one element?

15:14:08 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose that 2.4.3.1 be a Level 1

15:14:24 [wendy]

Level 3 : Diagrams are constructed so that they have structure that users can access.

15:14:26 [wendy]

ascii art?

15:14:48 [wendy]

the only way ascii art meets is not to use it

15:15:33 [wendy]

;)

15:15:44 [wendy]

ascii art can be a sensory experience.

15:15:54 [wendy]

wcag 1.0: level 1 skip, level 3 don't use

15:16:57 [wendy]

don't use ascii art to present information. if using it as art, provide way to skip over and a description.

15:17:32 [MichaelC]

action: Michael edit misuse of pre to talk about presenting important information (tables and ascii art)

15:17:55 [MichaelC]

action: Michael move ASCII art to 2.4.2.3

15:18:15 [wendy]

tab order for links?

15:20:36 [wendy]

agenda+ reopen tabindex as discussion item

15:21:33 [wendy]

the title element clearly maps to this success criterion. But I don't think it should be Level 3 - Level 2 at worst but really Level 1.

15:22:21 [wendy]

action: michael - rewrite notes and send to WCAG WG

15:22:31 [wendy]

drop action 17

15:22:35 [wendy]

RRSAgent, drop action 17

15:23:00 [wendy]

action: michael rewrite notes on level 3 criterion on 2.4 (title) and send to WCAG WG

15:23:16 [wendy]

Level 3 : Structural emphasis is evident on at least the following displays: black and white monitor, low resolution screens (160 x 160 pixels), "mono" audio playback devices.

15:23:22 [wendy]

assume if use structure properly, you conform?

15:23:45 [wendy]

what can an author do?

15:23:58 [wendy]

what would we include in general techniques?

15:24:08 [wendy]

move to user agent?

15:26:32 [wendy]

could authors do things to make it work on a device like that?

15:26:42 [wendy]

how many devices have to test on to ensure you conform?

15:27:09 [wendy]

primary question: other than using structure, what can an author do?

15:27:35 [wendy]

is it talking about style or structure?

15:27:44 [wendy]

if properly structure and remove style, up to UA to present.

15:28:35 [MichaelC]

action: Michael bring questions to WG about 2.4.3.5 (seems like it may be a user agent only issue)

15:30:18 [Zakim]

-Sailesh_Panchang

15:31:07 [wendy]

2.5

15:31:31 [wendy]

related to error detection scripts, highlighting errors in forms, back-end processing of forms

15:32:35 [wendy]

agenda+ 2.5 as it relates to general, server-side scripting, client-side scripting, error handling, marking form elements w/errors (asterisk, color)

15:32:52 [wendy]

look at ATAG for starting point?

15:33:37 [wendy]

3.1

15:33:56 [wendy]

Level 2 : Page titles are informative.

15:33:56 [wendy]

15:33:56 [wendy]

Note that this is a Level 2 item, but the one even requiring the page title above is a Level 3.

15:34:46 [wendy]

title is require in html dtd. thus in 4.1 - it is required.

15:35:34 [MichaelC]

action: Michael provide additional mapping for use TITLE to 3.1.2.1 and 4.1.1.1

15:35:42 [wendy]

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#edef-TITLE - Every HTML document must have a TITLE element in the HEAD section.

15:35:58 [wendy]

Level 2 : The meanings and pronunciations of all words in the content can be programmatically located.

15:36:13 [wendy]

link element

15:36:24 [wendy]

glossary

15:36:25 [wendy]

?

15:36:50 [wendy]

doesn't do all that we've talked about (cascade) but is a good place to start.

15:37:06 [wendy]

value to creating a technique?

15:37:21 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose technique for <link rel="glossary"> for 3.1.2.2

15:37:47 [wendy]

doesn't that open can of worms? what level do you go to give pronunciation of words?

15:38:51 [wendy]

yes. we don't have a good answer.

15:39:02 [wendy]

how to write a good glossary?

15:39:11 [wendy]

related: Level 2 : The meaning of all idioms in the content can be programmatically determined.

15:39:38 [wendy]

programatically located - here are possibilities. "programmatically determined" - much more concrete.

15:40:24 [wendy]

most of 3.1 - what do we do in html?

15:40:38 [wendy]

3.2

15:41:02 [wendy]

(for idiom: use "cite" to reference where the idiom comes from?)

15:41:23 [wendy]

(for idiom: use "title" on span/paragraph?)

15:41:55 [wendy]

(http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#adef-title)

15:43:39 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose technique for use of <span title=""> to meet many of the 3.1 SC

15:44:27 [wendy]

back to 3.2

15:44:52 [wendy]

use target = blank or new instead of javascript.

15:45:01 [wendy]

is there a SC for it? need to propose one?

15:45:58 [MichaelC]

action: Michael remap anchors/targets and frame target to 3.2.2.4

15:46:23 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose technique use target="_blank" instead of JavaScript for new windows, 3.2.1.1

15:47:44 [wendy]

accesskey defined as activate not focus

15:48:07 [wendy]

any UAs implement that way?

15:48:08 [wendy]

yes

15:49:34 [MichaelC]

action: Tom go to PF about accesskeys - HTML spec is that they activate but GL require only focus

15:51:26 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose technique don't use accesskey on HTML-conformant browsers that will activate when key pressed (3.2.2.2) [note we're not happy about needing to do this]

15:52:17 [wendy]

standard use of accesskey? 0 is always X, 1 is always Y

15:53:13 [wendy]

french law?

15:53:19 [MichaelC]

action: Michael technique about accesskey related to browser bugs

15:53:33 [wendy]

27 action items! w00t!

15:54:16 [wendy]

agenda+ "Level 2 : All user interface components should be able to receive focus without causing activation. "

15:54:36 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose technique not to use auto-submit combo boxes

15:54:36 [wendy]

xforms techniques! yes!

15:55:16 [wendy]

similar to using css for some things, recommend using xforms...create demand for xforms and implementations

15:57:01 [wendy]

xforms placeholder best maps to "help avoid errors"

15:57:18 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose technique to use XForms instead of HTML forms (2.5 and others)

15:57:29 [wendy]

create such a compelling argument to use xforms, that author's will create stink and UAs will implement. :)

15:57:55 [wendy]

Level 3 : The target of each link is clearly identified.

15:58:45 [wendy]

level 1: if target is not identified, can't meaningfully navigate.

15:59:52 [wendy]

worry about designer reaction. if one word is link for design, if use title - does that satisfy?

15:59:59 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose that 3.2.3.1 should be a Level 1

16:00:11 [wendy]

if alt for area maps here, then has to be level1

16:01:14 [wendy]

title is total mess - goes back to user agent issue. title is spoken arbitrarily. UAAG 1.0 says that is ok.

16:01:58 [wendy]

ben found interesting interpretation of UAAG based on acronym discussion.

16:02:51 [wendy]

meaningful text or good title? need additional technique for link text itself?

16:02:59 [wendy]

didn't we get rid of one?

16:03:04 [Zakim]

-Tim_Boland

16:03:04 [wendy]

belongs in general?

16:04:23 [wendy]

several that are mapped at level 3 can be mapped to level 1

16:04:23 [MichaelC]

action 30 = Michael raise issues to group around 3.2.3.1

16:05:33 [MichaelC]

action Michael move many of the link text techniques to 1.1

16:10:50 [wendy]

mark table as data or layout explicitly

16:12:43 [wendy]

html wg wants to deprecate use of tables for layout, rely on css. depends on tools implementing css so that don't have to memorize spec to use css.

16:12:50 [wendy]

s/tools/authoring tools

16:13:12 [wendy]

agenda+ discuss concerns about deprecating layout tables. very difficult to create complex effects in css that can easily do in tables

16:13:16 [MichaelC]

action: Michael propose technique that deprecates the use of layout tables

16:13:40 [wendy]

4.1

16:14:04 [wendy]

blockquote map to structure (1.3)?

16:14:10 [wendy]

puts it at level 3

16:15:37 [wendy]

agenda+ 4.1

16:16:20 [wendy]

next week: begin with 4.2. cap discussion at x minutes (15? 20? 30? 5? ;)

16:16:39 [Zakim]

-Becky_Gibson

16:16:40 [Zakim]

-Don_Evans

16:16:41 [Zakim]

-Jim_Thatcher

16:16:42 [Zakim]

-Wendy

16:16:43 [Zakim]

-Ben

16:16:54 [Zakim]

-Tom_Croucher

16:16:59 [sh1mmer]

whew!

16:17:35 [bcaldwell]

what, tired? :)

16:17:42 [sh1mmer]

ya

16:17:51 [sh1mmer]

aren't you?

16:17:55 [bcaldwell]

you've got a gateway doc. to finish up

16:18:09 [bcaldwell]

(begin merciless badgering)

16:18:13 [sh1mmer]

haha

16:18:27 [sh1mmer]

i was gonna say give me a couple of minutes to myself before i start

16:18:28 [sh1mmer]

:P

16:18:34 [sh1mmer]

way to harrass a guy on his 'day off'

16:18:46 [bcaldwell]

:)

16:19:10 [Zakim]

-David_MacDonald

16:19:11 [Zakim]

-Michael_Cooper

16:19:12 [Zakim]

WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended

16:19:13 [Zakim]

Attendees were Don_Evans, Tim_Boland, Michael_Cooper, Ben, David, Tom_Croucher, Wendy, Jim_Thatcher, Becky_Gibson, Lisa_Seeman, Sailesh_Panchang, David_MacDonald

16:19:21 [wendy]

zakim, bye

16:19:21 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #wai-wcag

16:19:26 [wendy]

RRSAgent, make log world

16:19:32 [wendy]

RRSAgent, bye

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

I see 30 open action items:

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael approach larger group on interpretation of 1.1.3.1 and request clarified wording if our interpretation is correct [1]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-14-03

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose SC for separation of structure and presentation [2]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-28-58

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael ask WG for definition of foreground and background [3]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-31-43

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose technique to recommend using HTML + CSS instead of text in images (contrast, text equivalents, resizing) [4]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-34-38

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose technique to strongly recommend against using "background" attribute to put in a background image [5]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-35-49

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose techniques for all the things in HTML we'd prefer to see in CSS [6]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-38-20

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: MIchael propose mark text links for CSIM as deprecated (need to double check with users) [7]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-47-52

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael map image map stuff to multiple SC (text equivalents, functionality available, keyboard access, clear link text) [8]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-48-57

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose HTML techniques for event handlers [9]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-50-31

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael drop 2.1.3.1 CSIM text links mapping [10]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-52-07

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael create BLINK and MARQUEE element techniques [11]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-53-53

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael combine 'style headers' with 'user headers, darnnit' [12]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T14-59-27

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Tom propose technique for TOC in a page [13]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-07-33

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose that 2.4.3.1 be a Level 1 [14]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-14-08

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael edit misuse of pre to talk about presenting important information (tables and ascii art) [15]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-17-32

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael move ASCII art to 2.4.2.3 [16]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-17-55

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: michael rewrite notes on level 3 criterion on 2.4 (title) and send to WCAG WG [18]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-23-00

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael bring questions to WG about 2.4.3.5 (seems like it may be a user agent only issue) [19]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-28-35

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael provide additional mapping for use TITLE to 3.1.2.1 and 4.1.1.1 [20]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-35-34

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose technique for <link rel="glossary"> for 3.1.2.2 [21]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-37-21

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose technique for use of <span title=""> to meet many of the 3.1 SC [22]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-43-39

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael remap anchors/targets and frame target to 3.2.2.4 [23]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-45-58

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose technique use target="_blank" instead of JavaScript for new windows, 3.2.1.1 [24]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-46-23

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Tom go to PF about accesskeys - HTML spec is that they activate but GL require only focus [25]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-49-34

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose technique don't use accesskey on HTML-conformant browsers that will activate when key pressed (3.2.2.2) [note we're not happy about needing to do this] [26]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-51-26

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael technique about accesskey related to browser bugs [27]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-53-19

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose technique not to use auto-submit combo boxes [28]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-54-36

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose technique to use XForms instead of HTML forms (2.5 and others) [29]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-57-18

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael raise issues to group around 3.2.3.1 [30]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T15-59-59

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael propose technique that deprecates the use of layout tables [31]

16:19:32 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/06/09-wai-wcag-irc#T16-13-16