IRC log of wai-wcag on 2004-05-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:55:06 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
19:55:34 [bengt]
we were very happy when we changed from paper terminals to adm terminals ....
19:56:16 [Yvette]
paper terminals? lol
19:56:22 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has now started
19:56:30 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
19:56:36 [bengt]
well paper writing terminals ....
19:56:40 [Yvette]
ah :-)
19:57:11 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
19:57:19 [Zakim]
+??P2
19:57:33 [bengt]
zakim, ??P2 is Bengt_Farre
19:57:33 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
19:57:54 [bengt]
zakim, I am Bengt_Farre
19:57:54 [Zakim]
ok, bengt, I now associate you with Bengt_Farre
19:57:59 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
19:58:04 [Yvette]
zakim, I am Yvette_Hoitink
19:58:04 [Zakim]
sorry, Yvette, I do not see a party named 'Yvette_Hoitink'
19:58:05 [bengt]
zakim, mute me
19:58:05 [Zakim]
Bengt_Farre should now be muted
19:58:16 [Zakim]
+Tom_Croucher
19:58:17 [Zakim]
+??P3
19:58:19 [sh1mmer]
woo!
19:58:27 [tecks]
tecks has joined #wai-wcag
19:58:31 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
19:58:32 [Yvette]
zakim, ??P3 is Yvette_Hoitink
19:58:32 [Zakim]
+Yvette_Hoitink; got it
19:58:38 [Yvette]
zakim, I am Yvette_Hoitink
19:58:38 [Zakim]
ok, Yvette, I now associate you with Yvette_Hoitink
19:58:52 [sh1mmer]
zakim, I am Tom_Croucher
19:58:52 [Zakim]
ok, sh1mmer, I now associate you with Tom_Croucher
19:58:57 [sh1mmer]
zakim, mute me
19:58:57 [Zakim]
Tom_Croucher should now be muted
19:59:09 [Zakim]
+??P6
19:59:12 [sh1mmer]
I can't believe it recognised me :D
19:59:16 [Yvette]
congraz!
19:59:17 [rscano]
zakim, ??P6 is Roberto_Scano
19:59:17 [Zakim]
+Roberto_Scano; got it
19:59:18 [Becky]
Becky has joined #WAI-WCAG
19:59:23 [rscano]
zakim, I am Roberto_Scano
19:59:23 [Zakim]
ok, rscano, I now associate you with Roberto_Scano
19:59:28 [Yvette]
Hi Becky and tecks
19:59:30 [rscano]
zakim, mute me
19:59:30 [Zakim]
Roberto_Scano should now be muted
19:59:36 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, who's on the phone
19:59:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's on the phone', sh1mmer
19:59:38 [rscano]
zakim, who is on the phone?
19:59:38 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], Bengt_Farre (muted), Yvette_Hoitink, Tom_Croucher (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, Roberto_Scano (muted)
19:59:38 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
19:59:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], Bengt_Farre (muted), Yvette_Hoitink, Tom_Croucher (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, Roberto_Scano (muted)
19:59:43 [Becky]
Hello
19:59:47 [sh1mmer]
Hi
19:59:50 [rscano]
Hello becky
19:59:51 [nabe]
nabe has joined #wai-wcag
19:59:59 [Becky]
I have to leave early today - half way thru call at 4:45 EDT
20:00:00 [Yvette]
Hi Takayuki
20:00:06 [Zakim]
+??P7
20:00:11 [Zakim]
+Sailesh_Panchang
20:00:23 [Yvette]
zakim, ??P7 is Doyle
20:00:23 [Zakim]
+Doyle; got it
20:00:39 [Zakim]
+??P9
20:00:41 [Yvette]
zakim, who's on the phone
20:00:41 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's on the phone', Yvette
20:00:43 [bcaldwell]
bcaldwell has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:52 [nabe]
good morining everyone!
20:00:58 [rscano]
good afternoon from Venice :)
20:01:08 [rscano]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:01:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], Bengt_Farre (muted), Yvette_Hoitink, Tom_Croucher (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, Roberto_Scano (muted), Doyle, Sailesh_Panchang, ??P9
20:01:11 [Zakim]
+Matt
20:01:12 [tecks]
hi roberto
20:01:18 [rscano]
hi!
20:01:24 [MattSEA]
MattSEA has joined #wai-wcag
20:01:41 [Zakim]
+??P11
20:01:54 [bcaldwell]
Zakim, ??P11 is Ben_Caldwell
20:01:54 [Zakim]
+Ben_Caldwell; got it
20:02:20 [Yvette]
zakim, ??P9 is nabe
20:02:20 [Zakim]
+nabe; got it
20:02:40 [Yvette]
zakim, who's on the phone
20:02:40 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's on the phone', Yvette
20:02:45 [Yvette]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:02:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], Bengt_Farre (muted), Yvette_Hoitink, Tom_Croucher (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, Roberto_Scano (muted), Doyle, Sailesh_Panchang, nabe, Matt,
20:02:48 [Zakim]
... Ben_Caldwell
20:02:48 [Zakim]
+Wendy
20:02:49 [Zakim]
+JasonWhite
20:03:04 [Zakim]
+John_Slatin
20:03:40 [Yvette]
zakim, [Microsoft] is Mike_Barta
20:03:40 [Zakim]
+Mike_Barta; got it
20:03:45 [Yvette]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:03:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike_Barta, Bengt_Farre (muted), Yvette_Hoitink, Tom_Croucher (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, Roberto_Scano (muted), Doyle, Sailesh_Panchang, nabe, Matt,
20:03:48 [Zakim]
... Ben_Caldwell, Wendy, JasonWhite, John_Slatin
20:03:49 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
20:04:03 [rscano]
zakim, ??[IBM] is Andy
20:04:03 [Zakim]
sorry, rscano, I do not recognize a party named '??[IBM]'
20:04:12 [Yvette]
zakim, [IBM] is Andy
20:04:12 [Zakim]
+Andy; got it
20:04:18 [rscano]
;-)
20:04:22 [bcaldwell]
zakim, Andy is Andi
20:04:22 [Zakim]
+Andi; got it
20:04:27 [bcaldwell]
:)
20:07:24 [GVAN]
GVAN has joined #wai-wcag
20:07:29 [Zakim]
+Becky_Gibson
20:07:31 [sh1mmer]
hey Gregg
20:07:34 [rscano]
hi Gregg
20:07:56 [rscano]
zakim, becky is Becky_Gibson
20:07:56 [Zakim]
+Becky_Gibson; got it
20:08:06 [sh1mmer]
;)
20:08:10 [GVAN]
will be with you soon
20:09:37 [Zakim]
+Avi
20:10:13 [Zakim]
+ +1.613.220.aaaa
20:10:23 [rscano]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004AprJun/0361.html
20:10:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.404.385.aabb
20:10:55 [Yvette]
zakim, +1.404.385.aabb is GVAN
20:10:55 [Zakim]
+GVAN; got it
20:11:04 [bcaldwell]
Zakim, 1.613.220.aaaa is David_MacDonald
20:11:04 [Zakim]
sorry, bcaldwell, I do not recognize a party named '1.613.220.aaaa'
20:11:07 [Yvette]
zakim, GVAG is Gregg_Vanderheijden
20:11:07 [Zakim]
sorry, Yvette, I do not recognize a party named 'GVAG'
20:11:13 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:11:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike_Barta, Bengt_Farre (muted), Yvette_Hoitink, Tom_Croucher (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, Roberto_Scano (muted), Doyle, Sailesh_Panchang, nabe, Matt,
20:11:14 [Yvette]
zakim, GVAN is Gregg_Vanderheijden
20:11:16 [Zakim]
... Ben_Caldwell, Wendy, JasonWhite, John_Slatin, Andi, Becky_Gibson.a, Avi, +1.613.220.aaaa (muted), GVAN
20:11:19 [Zakim]
+Gregg_Vanderheijden; got it
20:11:34 [Yvette]
zakim, Gregg_Vanderheijden is Gregg_Vanderheiden
20:11:34 [Zakim]
+Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it
20:11:43 [wendy]
zakim, +1.613.220.aaaa is David_MacDonald
20:11:43 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald; got it
20:12:54 [rscano]
1. working definition of the criteria for placing items in each of the
20:12:54 [rscano]
three levels:
20:12:54 [rscano]
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004AprJun/0180.html>
20:18:15 [Yvette]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004AprJun/0351.html
20:22:04 [wendy]
q+ yvette
20:22:15 [Yvette]
thx Wendy
20:28:14 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
20:30:06 [GVAN]
The Working Group believes that all success criteria should be testable. Tests can be done by computer programs or by people who understand these guidelines. Tests done by people who understand the guidelines should get the same results testing the same content for the same success criteria.
20:30:08 [Yvette]
q-
20:31:05 [Yvette]
q-
20:31:10 [Yvette]
ack yvette
20:31:14 [Yvette]
ack John_Slatin
20:31:15 [sh1mmer]
ack John
20:31:23 [wendy]
thx yvette
20:31:27 [Yvette]
np
20:32:17 [Yvette]
Discussing agenda item 1
20:32:26 [Yvette]
Define what goes in which level
20:33:57 [Yvette]
Difference between level 1 and 2 is approx. that 1 is minimum, invisible
20:34:18 [Yvette]
ack John_Slatin
20:36:08 [Yvette]
level 1: minimum level that works with AT
20:36:23 [Zakim]
+??P16
20:36:25 [Yvette]
level 2: Further than that + change content and presentation
20:36:48 [wendy]
agenda+ F2F in July
20:37:16 [Yvette]
zakim, ??P16 is DavidMcDonald
20:37:16 [Zakim]
+DavidMcDonald; got it
20:38:18 [Yvette]
all content requires handling by UA
20:38:37 [Yvette]
... should not require intervention by "special functions"
20:38:47 [Yvette]
s/functions/features
20:39:06 [rscano]
content must dialog with UA using API... it is a point in UAAG 1.0
20:39:25 [sh1mmer]
ack John
20:40:29 [Yvette]
problem: don't want to say "special features" because that depends on default configuration
20:40:44 [rscano]
UAAG 1.0 - Guideline 4. Ensure user control of rendering
20:41:41 [rscano]
http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10/guidelines.html#gl-user-control-styles
20:41:56 [Zakim]
-Becky_Gibson.a
20:42:07 [Yvette]
one of the reasons for WCAG is that we want people to use non-default settings
20:42:24 [Yvette]
level 1 might require you to change your configuration to make accessible
20:44:30 [Yvette]
level 2 succes criteria would be so that it is accessible in mainstream media without changing settings
20:44:41 [sh1mmer]
ack Jason
20:44:47 [wendy]
does level 1 #1 1.4 meet this defn? Any text that is presented over a background is electronically available so that it could be re-presented in a form that allows the text to be distinguished from the background.
20:47:26 [Yvette]
Yes, does meet because you can get the information by interacting with user agent (copy-paste for example)
20:50:44 [sh1mmer]
q+
20:50:53 [GVAN]
Increase accessibility both though additional facilitation of user agent based accessibility and through content and/or presentation that provides direct accessibility without requiring the user or user agent to do anything different from users without disabilities.
20:51:10 [GVAN]
Increase accessibility both though additional facilitation of user agent based accessibility and through content and/or presentation that provides direct accessibility without requiring the user or their user agent to do anything different from users without disabilities.
20:51:19 [Yvette]
lol
20:51:22 [rscano]
lol
20:51:23 [Zakim]
-Matt
20:52:59 [Yvette]
Jason: concept of not having to change anything is spurious, for example font shown much smaller on IE than other browsers
20:53:14 [sh1mmer]
twas Tom
20:53:17 [Yvette]
sorry
20:53:20 [sh1mmer]
:)
20:53:36 [Yvette]
s/Jason/Tom
20:53:43 [sh1mmer]
ack Tom
20:55:18 [Yvette]
Mike: likes the wording but 'direct accessibility' not applicable to use of fontsettings
20:55:45 [Yvette]
not a real problem because first half of definition includes facilitation of accessibility features
20:56:43 [Yvette]
level 2 is both AT-accessibility features and direct accessibility in 'default' settings
20:57:00 [rscano]
(phone regrets from Roberto Ellero and Roberto Castaldo)
20:57:07 [MattSEA]
MattSEA has left #wai-wcag
20:57:13 [Yvette]
John: perhaps we should split this one because it is confusing
20:58:18 [sh1mmer]
q?
20:58:22 [sh1mmer]
ack mike
20:58:25 [sh1mmer]
ack john
20:58:46 [GVAN]
1. Increase accessibility both
20:58:46 [GVAN]
a) though additional facilitation of user agent based accessibility and
20:58:46 [GVAN]
b) through content and/or presentation that provides direct accessibility without requiring the user or their user agent to do anything different from users without disabilities.
20:59:26 [Yvette]
John wants to delete everything after "presentation" for b
20:59:32 [wendy]
q+ to say, "what about rest of the agenda?"
21:00:06 [Andi]
Andi has joined #wai-wcag
21:00:21 [GVAN]
1. Increase accessibility either
21:00:22 [GVAN]
a) through additional facilitation of user agent based accessibility or
21:00:22 [GVAN]
b) through content and/or presentation that provides direct accessibility without requiring the user or their user agent to do anything different from users without disabilities.
21:00:22 [GVAN]
c) or both.
21:00:39 [wendy]
ack wendy
21:00:39 [Zakim]
wendy, you wanted to say, "what about rest of the agenda?"
21:01:19 [Yvette]
level 3: Go beyond Level 1 and 2 to increase direct and user agent enhanced
21:01:19 [Yvette]
accessibility
21:02:04 [Yvette]
level 2: s/1. Increase/ Increases
21:02:22 [GVAN]
The Working Group believes that all success criteria should be testable. Tests can be done by computer programs or by people who understand these guidelines. Tests done by people who understand the guidelines should get the same results testing the same content for the same success criteria.
21:02:22 [GVAN]
LEVEL 1 SUCCESS CRITERIA
21:02:22 [GVAN]
21:02:22 [GVAN]
1. Achieve a minimum level of accessibility through markup, scripting, or other technologies that interact with user agents, including assistive technologies;
21:02:25 [GVAN]
2. The working group felt could be reasonably be applied to all Web resources;
21:02:26 [GVAN]
LEVEL 2 SUCCESS CRITERIA
21:02:28 [GVAN]
1. Increases accessibility either
21:02:30 [GVAN]
a) through additional facilitation of user agent based accessibility or
21:02:32 [GVAN]
b) through content and/or presentation that provides direct accessibility without requiring the user or their user agent to do anything different from users without disabilities.
21:02:35 [GVAN]
c) or both.
21:02:37 [GVAN]
21:02:39 [GVAN]
2. The working group felt could be reasonably be applied to all Web resources;
21:02:41 [GVAN]
21:02:43 [GVAN]
LEVEL 3 SUCCESS CRITERIA
21:02:45 [GVAN]
1. Go beyond Level 1 and 2 to increase direct and user agent enhanced accessibility
21:03:54 [Yvette]
s/the working group felt/the working group feels
21:04:06 [sh1mmer]
ack John
21:04:43 [Yvette]
level 1+2 #2: Can reasonably be appied to all web resources
21:04:58 [Yvette]
level 1+2 #2: Can reasonably be applied to all web resources
21:05:07 [doyle]
feels to believe - agree with andi and john
21:05:44 [Yvette]
Level 2: Increases accessibility through either or both of the following: a b
21:05:48 [Zakim]
-DavidMcDonald
21:06:06 [GVAN]
The Working Group believes that all success criteria should be testable. Tests can be done by computer programs or by people who understand these guidelines. Tests done by people who understand the guidelines should get the same results testing the same content for the same success criteria.
21:06:08 [GVAN]
LEVEL 1 SUCCESS CRITERIA
21:06:08 [GVAN]
21:06:08 [GVAN]
1. Achieve a minimum level of accessibility through markup, scripting, or other technologies that interact with user agents, including assistive technologies;
21:06:08 [GVAN]
2. Could be reasonably be applied to all Web resources;
21:06:10 [GVAN]
LEVEL 2 SUCCESS CRITERIA
21:06:12 [GVAN]
1. Increases accessibility either through either or both of the following
21:06:14 [GVAN]
a) additional facilitation of user agent based accessibility
21:06:16 [GVAN]
b) content and/or presentation that provides direct accessibility without requiring the user or their user agent to do anything different from users without disabilities or
21:06:19 [GVAN]
21:06:21 [GVAN]
21:06:23 [GVAN]
2. Could be reasonably be applied to all Web resources;
21:06:25 [GVAN]
21:06:27 [GVAN]
LEVEL 3 SUCCESS CRITERIA
21:06:29 [GVAN]
1. Go beyond Level 1 and 2 to increase direct and user agent enhanced accessibility
21:06:39 [rscano]
no objections
21:06:42 [rscano]
:)
21:07:00 [Yvette]
consensus to adopt the last formulation
21:07:46 [Yvette]
Agenda item: face-to-face meeting in July, Europe
21:08:10 [Yvette]
Wendy ran into problems when arranging meeting in Europe
21:08:24 [Yvette]
possibility to hold F2F in US in July
21:08:26 [Yvette]
q+
21:08:54 [Yvette]
possibly Europe in fall
21:09:09 [Yvette]
if US in summer, def Europe in fall
21:09:22 [wendy]
ack andi
21:09:24 [wendy]
ack yvette
21:10:04 [wendy]
yvette is disappointed. originally told europe in spring, then summer, now fall.
21:10:18 [Yvette]
problem is holiday season in Europe
21:10:55 [wendy]
ack jason
21:11:14 [wendy]
12-15 july
21:11:20 [Yvette]
Jason can't make it
21:11:34 [Yvette]
Westcoast
21:12:54 [bengt]
what about isaac meeting in brazil ?
21:13:32 [bengt]
dont forget linz
21:14:07 [Yvette]
we have been around the world in the last year
21:14:21 [Yvette]
Venice, Japan, US, France
21:14:38 [wendy]
july - italy, september - canada, november - japan, march - france, march - u.s.
21:14:42 [sh1mmer]
q+
21:14:51 [sh1mmer]
ack Tom
21:16:13 [Yvette]
Try to provide teleconferencing possibilities
21:16:37 [rscano]
W3C need to implement teleconference system ;-)
21:16:40 [wendy]
19-23 july instead?
21:16:43 [rscano]
ask to Macromedia ;-)
21:17:10 [Yvette]
John Slatin not sure about either date
21:17:25 [Yvette]
q+
21:18:36 [wendy]
ack yvette
21:18:51 [wendy]
sponsoring people to travel?
21:18:56 [sh1mmer]
agreed
21:19:38 [Zakim]
+??P10
21:19:43 [bengt]
virgin express ? yvette ?
21:19:57 [rscano]
:D
21:20:04 [rscano]
Green Card for all WCAG member :D
21:20:23 [Yvette]
Yvette to check airfares
21:21:12 [wendy]
fyi: it's important for us to get to europe - there is so much going on there to be plugged into. i'm disappointed we were not able to make it work for july.
21:22:10 [Yvette]
Talking about agenda item 2 (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004AprJun/0302.html)
21:23:31 [Yvette]
"Additional meaning" testable?
21:24:41 [sh1mmer]
q+
21:25:55 [doyle]
Yvette, where in Finland are you? Sounds like it's cheaper for you to get from Finland to San Fransisco than for me to get from Alaska to San Fransisco. Our rates out of Alaska are terrible.
21:26:02 [Yvette]
If we did have this rule, you could not have bold text as image because you can't indicate bold in ALT
21:26:19 [Yvette]
Doyle, I'm in the Netherlands
21:26:32 [doyle]
Oh, okay
21:27:43 [Yvette]
Tom: only markup for semantic meaning
21:28:15 [wendy]
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/elements.html
21:28:44 [bcaldwell]
q+
21:28:51 [Yvette]
other markup should be through stylesheets
21:29:29 [Yvette]
should be able to determine whether text is emphasized, not if it's bold
21:29:51 [wendy]
bold is in xhtml 1.0: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd
21:29:55 [Zakim]
-??P10
21:32:46 [Yvette]
Sometimes you want to make something bold without having a semantic tag at your disposal
21:34:17 [Yvette]
CSS3 allows content in stylesheets, so can't say anymore that stylesheets should be presentation only
21:34:48 [wendy]
<!ENTITY % fontstyle "tt | i | b | big | small ">
21:35:05 [wendy]
<!ENTITY % inline "a | %special; | %fontstyle; | %phrase; | %inline.forms;">
21:35:35 [sh1mmer]
ack Tom
21:35:52 [sh1mmer]
ack John
21:35:57 [sh1mmer]
ack Jason
21:36:02 [Yvette]
Gregg thought we didn't need the guideline because you violated them. IN this discussion, several counter-examples have been mentioned so guideline is useful
21:36:34 [bcaldwell]
q- (will post to the list)
21:37:31 [doyle]
still here, actually
21:38:05 [sh1mmer]
this one needs awhole darn call ;)
21:38:09 [doyle]
gotta run, too
21:38:12 [Yvette]
yep
21:38:16 [wendy]
yvette - thank you for taking notes!
21:38:25 [Yvette]
no problem
21:38:30 [doyle]
bye all
21:38:33 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
21:38:34 [Zakim]
-Andi
21:38:34 [bengt]
bye
21:38:35 [Zakim]
-Wendy
21:38:37 [Zakim]
-Mike_Barta
21:38:38 [Zakim]
-Avi
21:38:38 [nabe]
good bye
21:38:39 [Zakim]
-Roberto_Scano
21:38:40 [Zakim]
-Yvette_Hoitink
21:38:40 [Zakim]
-Gregg_Vanderheiden
21:38:41 [Zakim]
-Tom_Croucher
21:38:43 [Zakim]
-John_Slatin
21:38:46 [Zakim]
-Ben_Caldwell
21:38:47 [Zakim]
-Doyle
21:38:48 [sh1mmer]
we need to make rrs publico
21:38:49 [Zakim]
-Sailesh_Panchang
21:38:51 [Zakim]
-nabe
21:38:51 [Yvette]
Tom, we just have our own Face-to-Face in England ;-)
21:38:52 [sh1mmer]
wendy?
21:38:53 [Zakim]
-Bengt_Farre
21:38:55 [Zakim]
-JasonWhite
21:38:57 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
21:38:59 [Zakim]
Attendees were Katie_Haritos-Shea, Bengt_Farre, Tom_Croucher, Yvette_Hoitink, Roberto_Scano, Sailesh_Panchang, Doyle, Matt, Ben_Caldwell, nabe, Wendy, JasonWhite, John_Slatin,
21:39:02 [Zakim]
... Mike_Barta, Andi, Becky_Gibson, Avi, Gregg_Vanderheiden, David_MacDonald, DavidMcDonald
21:39:06 [sh1mmer]
Yvette yeah we don't need those other people ;)
21:39:27 [sh1mmer]
after finish WCAG on our own we can move onto world peace
21:39:38 [nabe]
nabe has left #wai-wcag
21:39:47 [bengt]
hmm I thought I fixed that already ?
21:39:59 [bengt]
goodnight
21:40:20 [Yvette]
Sounds like a plan :-)
21:40:45 [Yvette]
Hmm, the air fare I mentioned was one way
21:41:23 [sh1mmer]
yeah
21:41:28 [sh1mmer]
i thought that was a bit cheap
21:42:10 [Yvette]
It looks like 1100 euros return
21:42:20 [sh1mmer]
plus hotel
21:42:30 [Yvette]
yes, but I would have had that in Europe too
21:42:43 [Yvette]
so that's not really fair
21:43:00 [Yvette]
although if it's in Amsterdam I could stay with friends
21:43:32 [wendyout]
RRSAgent bye
21:43:41 [wendyout]
RRSAgent, bye
21:43:41 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items