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15:04:16 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone/
15:04:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone/', wendy
15:04:19 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:04:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.512.306.aaaa, [Microsoft], Michael_Cooper, ??P14, Ben, Wendy
15:04:46 <wendy> zakim, +1.512.306.aaaa is Jim_Thatcher
15:04:46 <Zakim> +Jim_Thatcher; got it
15:04:49 <Zakim> +??P21
15:04:56 <wendy> zakim, ??P21 is Tom
15:04:56 <Zakim> +Tom; got it
15:05:03 <sh1mmer> Zakim, I am Tom
15:05:03 <Zakim> ok, sh1mmer, I now associate you with Tom
15:05:25 <wendy> zakim, ??P14 is Chris_Ridpath
15:05:25 <Zakim> +Chris_Ridpath; got it
15:05:29 <ben> zakim, I am Ben
15:05:29 <Zakim> ok, ben, I now associate you with Ben
15:06:39 <wendy> april 28-30 euroaccessibility tf3 is meeting in copenhagen
15:11:02 <wendy> anyone likely to go?
15:11:12 <wendy> tom
15:11:50 <wendy> ===
15:11:52 <wendy> test matrix
15:11:59 <wendy> "consider other platforms and devices"
15:12:07 <wendy> (from notes from f2f, jenae has questiosn)
15:13:29 <wendy> not sure how to approach, but suggestion was to test on at least one mobile and one phone browser.
15:14:08 <wendy> action: ben pull together suggestion for jenae to include in test matrix wrt mobile devices
15:14:26 <wendy> "need to add keyboard interface, spellchecker, etc."
15:15:28 <wendy> think this referred to testing with other assistive technologies.
15:15:42 <wendy> e.g., at least one technology that emulates a keyboard
15:15:52 <wendy> things that sit on top of browser and emulate browser
15:19:49 <wendy> action: wendy talk with DO-IT about what other assistive technologies we ought to test with
15:22:33 <wendy> "issues with running old versions of netscape on macs"
15:23:08 <wendy> single mac machine, multiple versions of netscape, they magically exhibit others behaviors.
15:23:28 <wendy> "tom's checking on apple screen readers"
15:23:42 <wendy> had action to talk with joe, he wrote an article about.
15:24:04 <wendy> apple demonstrated new screen reader at csun, not released yet.
15:24:12 <wendy> tom signing up for beta program.
15:24:21 <wendy> "  "
15:24:33 <wendy> does platform itself have ability to address some things in wcag?
15:24:48 <wendy> "operating systems ability to enlarge text?"
15:24:59 <wendy> a column that we want to have for each os?
15:25:20 <wendy> text enlargement or magnification?
15:25:37 <wendy> should consider both
15:25:47 <wendy> "include os features: windows magnifer, mac speech..."
15:25:52 <wendy> need to know what those features are.
15:26:39 <wendy> screen mag and on-screen keyboard for gnome
15:26:54 <wendy> and KDE
15:27:33 <ben> Operating Systems with built-in Accessibility Features - http://trace.wisc.edu/world/computer_access/compare.html
15:27:53 <wendy> doesn't include latest mac os
15:28:03 <wendy> ask matt about mac os
15:28:31 <Zakim> +??P2
15:28:44 <wendy> zakim, ??P2 is Lisa_Seeman
15:28:44 <Zakim> +Lisa_Seeman; got it
15:29:39 <wendy> are we interested in each of these features?
15:29:55 <wendy> serial keys for keyboard emulation. high contrast.
15:30:18 <wendy> font size
15:31:29 <wendy> mouse keys - p2 or p3?
15:31:59 <wendy> show sounds - browsers don't pick up on do they?
15:32:26 <wendy> does the os respond to any sound being made?
15:32:35 <wendy> e.g., when play multimedia file?
15:33:46 <wendy> action: ben when use show sounds how does it respond to multimedia in browsers
15:34:06 <wendy> "combination of assistive technologies"
15:34:22 <wendy> looking at screen reader combined with a magnifer
15:35:16 <wendy> many companies produce both 
15:35:28 <wendy> action: wendy - also ask do-it about most common combinations
15:35:46 <wendy> supernova - windows (hal and magnifier together)
15:36:41 <wendy> jenae runs through rest of edits
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15:40:47 <wendy> ===
15:40:48 <wendy> gateway
15:41:07 <wendy> tom trying to eliminate references to html. however, difficult to illustrate a concept.
15:41:25 <wendy> e.g., structure of a document. how illustrate that w/out refering to a particular technology.
15:41:47 <wendy> instead of examples, link to the examples in techniques?
15:42:00 <wendy> issue: creates circular "definition"
15:43:38 <wendy> could talk about structural features w/out mentioning specific code
15:44:01 <wendy> a rendered document. don't have to show code.
15:44:16 <wendy> example doesn't talk about code
15:44:28 <wendy> a separate document?
15:44:40 <wendy> a screen shot that deals with that issue?
15:44:44 <wendy> just show part of the screen?
15:44:51 <wendy> could talk about structure of gateway doc itself.
15:45:00 <wendy> headings: show extracted outline
15:47:15 <wendy> language - have techniques for writing language. there are several in the wcag 2.0 guidelines (3.1)
15:47:49 <wendy> will those be moved to gateway or if stay in main document, implications for gateway?
15:48:45 <wendy> editorial note: for now this in guidelines. revisit as this evolves.
15:51:46 <Zakim> +Don_Evans
15:52:09 <wendy> should tom send proposals to list or publish a new draft w/proposed changes included?
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15:54:24 <wendy> good case for getting new draft out. want to be careful wrt process, but enough changes that is almost a "new" draft.
15:54:43 <wendy> people should (and are willing) read top-to-bottom anew.
15:56:01 <wendy> zakim, who's making noise?
15:56:12 <Zakim> wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Lisa_Seeman (9%), Ben (20%), Tom (4%)
15:57:59 <wendy> need to figure out how to acknowledge contributions from people
15:58:26 <wendy> ===
15:58:29 <wendy> submissions form
15:58:42 <wendy> the script was going to depend on the appropriate subcategories.
15:58:54 <wendy> if put the big list in, then that's the degraded state. add script later.
15:59:15 <wendy> talking about 100 or more options
15:59:42 <wendy> make it a suggestion 
16:00:42 <wendy> action: ben have something done w/techniques submission by end of week
16:03:23 <wendy> next steps: WCAG WG review, talk about next week, then send to individuals have talked to last few weeks
16:03:39 <wendy> after that: "call for submissions" perhaps in conjunction w/publishing next html techniques draft.
16:03:47 <wendy> how validate techniques that we receive?
16:03:50 <wendy> we have to vet them.
16:04:02 <wendy> do they fulfill thte guideline they intended to fulfill?
16:04:16 <wendy> what about testability?
16:04:23 <wendy> is it valid? does it make sense? does it look good?
16:04:36 <wendy> 2nd level: does it get into our techniques?
16:04:48 <wendy> the work we have been doing w/test matrix and test files comes into that process.
16:05:00 <wendy> we don't have a formal work plan for pulling the pieces together, but the pieces are happening.
16:05:21 <wendy> time to connect the dots!
16:06:13 <wendy> useful to allow people to attach html files to submissions?
16:06:19 <wendy> test files?
16:06:24 <wendy> that or examples
16:06:45 <wendy> or a uri for "here's my example in real world"
16:07:01 <wendy> references and notes
16:07:19 <wendy> introduction at top of form?
16:07:35 <wendy> submission form for test cases?
16:08:37 <wendy> e.g., here's a site that passes all of the tools but is not accessible.
16:10:41 <wendy> if do something like that, need to be careful how implemented so that don't have list (on w3c site) of list of sites that are slammed for accessibility.
16:10:53 <wendy> however, these test cases are helpful in testing wcag 2.0.
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16:13:25 <wendy> related to EOWG's gallery and our implementation testing.
16:13:43 <wendy> how do point to sites that meet wcag but retain w3c vendor-neutrality.
16:13:46 <wendy> ===
16:13:47 <wendy> next week
16:14:02 <wendy> gateway, techniques submission, process to validate techniques
16:14:07 <wendy> check in on action items
16:16:21 <wendy> action: michael and wendy talk about action items in bugzilla
16:18:06 <wendy> april 21 - publish a techs draft for ben's bday :)
16:18:34 <wendy> (w/out him helping :)
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16:19:03 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:19:05 <Zakim> -Wendy
16:19:06 <Zakim> -Don_Evans
16:19:06 <Zakim> -Ben
16:19:07 <Zakim> -Tom
16:19:07 <Zakim> -Chris_Ridpath
16:19:08 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:19:08 <Zakim> -Jim_Thatcher
16:19:18 <wendy> RRSAgent, make log world-visible
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16:20:16 <ben> ben has left #wai-wcag
16:20:19 <wendy> zakim, bye
16:20:19 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were [Microsoft], Michael_Cooper, Wendy, Ben, Jim_Thatcher, Tom, Chris_Ridpath, Lisa_Seeman, Don_Evans
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17:28:54 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make logs world-visible
17:28:59 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
17:28:59 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items:
17:28:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ben pull together suggestion for jenae to include in test matrix wrt mobile devices [1]
17:28:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/03/31-wai-wcag-irc#T15-14-08
17:28:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: wendy talk with DO-IT about what other assistive technologies we ought to test with [2]
17:28:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/03/31-wai-wcag-irc#T15-19-49
17:28:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ben when use show sounds how does it respond to multimedia in browsers [3]
17:28:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/03/31-wai-wcag-irc#T15-33-46
17:28:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: wendy - also ask do-it about most common combinations [4]
17:28:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/03/31-wai-wcag-irc#T15-35-28
17:28:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ben have something done w/techniques submission by end of week [5]
17:28:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/03/31-wai-wcag-irc#T16-00-42
17:28:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: michael and wendy talk about action items in bugzilla [6]
17:28:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/03/31-wai-wcag-irc#T16-16-21