IRC log of wai-wcag on 2004-02-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:01:43 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:01:52 [wendy]
- zakim, this is WCAG
- 15:01:52 [Zakim]
- ok, wendy; that matches WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM
- 15:01:58 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:01:58 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see [Microsoft], Don_Evans, Dave_MacDonald
- 15:02:01 [Zakim]
- +Chris_Ridpath
- 15:02:23 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 15:02:27 [Zakim]
- +Wendy
- 15:02:31 [ChrisR]
- ChrisR has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:02:43 [ben]
- zakim, ??P19 is Ben
- 15:02:43 [Zakim]
- +Ben; got it
- 15:03:03 [ben]
- zakim, I am ben
- 15:03:03 [Zakim]
- ok, ben, I now associate you with Ben
- 15:03:52 [wendy]
- === data tables
- 15:04:03 [wendy]
- data tables vs layout tables
- 15:04:23 [wendy]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004JanMar/0230.html
- 15:05:06 [wendy]
- if the cell meaning changes, then you have to use headers. don't make the distinction between data and layout.
- 15:06:17 [wendy]
- ack Microsoft
- 15:06:24 [wendy]
- zakim, who's making noise?
- 15:06:35 [Zakim]
- wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 6 (38%), [Microsoft] (81%), Ben (4%)
- 15:06:44 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:06:44 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see [Microsoft], Don_Evans, Dave_MacDonald, Chris_Ridpath, Ben, Wendy
- 15:06:50 [wendy]
- 6?
- 15:07:05 [wendy]
- need diff to explain diff between headers
- 15:07:10 [wendy]
- ack Microsoft
- 15:07:14 [ben]
- q+
- 15:07:28 [wendy]
- ack [Microsoft]
- 15:07:43 [wendy]
- instead, there are some tables that require headers and some that don't.
- 15:08:02 [wendy]
- ack Dave
- 15:08:17 [wendy]
- no advantage to leave out the concepts data and layout
- 15:09:03 [wendy]
- ack Ben
- 15:09:31 [wendy]
- author decision tree: multiple techniques for diff types of table
- 15:09:36 [wendy]
- q+ to say "linearization"
- 15:10:26 [donaldfevans]
- donaldfevans has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:10:34 [wendy]
- ack wendy
- 15:10:34 [Zakim]
- wendy, you wanted to say "linearization"
- 15:11:17 [wendy]
- perhaps not so much that cells can exist on its own, but they can exist in a linear order that makes sense. can apply to some data tables as well.
- 15:11:25 [wendy]
- keeping concept of data and layout good idaes.
- 15:12:01 [wendy]
- create specific techniques/examples to help clarify gray area
- 15:13:31 [wendy]
- action items: develop techniques to explain. find real-world examples.
- 15:14:26 [wendy]
- action: chris look for real-world examples that use structural markup in tables and other examples that blur line between data and layout.
- 15:14:33 [wendy]
- action: wendy ask joe about his list of tables
- 15:14:44 [Zakim]
- +??P31
- 15:14:51 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P31
- 15:14:51 [Zakim]
- I don't understand '??P31', wendy
- 15:15:00 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P31 is Lisa_Seeman
- 15:15:00 [Zakim]
- +Lisa_Seeman; got it
- 15:15:50 [wendy]
- question about how jaws handles tables
- 15:16:45 [wendy]
- === RDF Techniques
- 15:16:47 [wendy]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004JanMar/0192.html
- 15:18:18 [wendy]
- seems that many of the examples could be techniques that could be developed further.
- 15:22:11 [wendy]
- current 2.1 and 2.2 are more introductory (user scenarios) rather than techniques
- 15:22:36 [wendy]
- break up 3.1 into 10 separate techniques/tasks rather than all examples for 3.1
- 15:26:19 [wendy]
- action jenae: look at RDF TEchniques with testability in mind
- 15:27:41 [wendy]
- like the introductions to each major section. think we should use that in other documents.
- 15:30:45 [wendy]
- are people happy with the top level categories?
- 15:32:38 [wendy]
- How much detail to include in the document (are we going to assume
- 15:32:38 [wendy]
- understand gateway techniques before read RDF techniques? Do we assume
- 15:32:38 [wendy]
- they understand RDF, do we write it in such away that knowledge of RDF
- 15:32:38 [wendy]
- is not necessary?
- 15:32:48 [wendy]
- paragraph about what RDF is, is useful
- 15:33:11 [wendy]
- don't expect to teach people RDF, but intro level, point them to resources to learn more. then return here to find out how to do accessibly
- 15:34:10 [wendy]
- are there things you can do in rdf that would make content inaccessible?
- 15:36:10 [wendy]
- since describing relationships between things, probably nothing that would create accessibility barrier
- 15:38:46 [wendy]
- 4.2 - would like example that shows what to do for a business web site. this example seems limited to educational setting.
- 15:38:57 [wendy]
- annotate every word?
- 15:39:56 [wendy]
- there are a couple of technologies and approaches to annotating. should we create a task force to make an ontology?
- 15:43:25 [wendy]
- not in scope for wcag wg charter http://www.w3.org/2003/08/wcag-charter.html
- 15:43:33 [wendy]
- wwaac more appropriate venue?
- 15:44:17 [wendy]
- action: lisa and wendy talk more about process issues related to developing an ontology
- 15:44:39 [wendy]
- it is a nice idea, good example. good for people to know about.
- 15:47:37 [wendy]
- next steps: develop introduction, use cases
- 15:51:33 [wendy]
- general feeling: good to see the document taking shape.
- 15:52:15 [wendy]
- action: wendy send lisa markpu suggestions
- 15:52:18 [wendy]
- ===
- 15:55:26 [wendy]
- http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=732
- 15:56:22 [wendy]
- anyone want to take an action to help create or find example? take screen shtos?
- 15:56:57 [wendy]
- http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=733
- 15:57:00 [wendy]
- assigned to editors
- 15:59:30 [wendy]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2002JanMar/0082.html
- 16:00:04 [wendy]
- are all of those names implemented?
- 16:00:17 [wendy]
- orange is missing
- 16:00:29 [wendy]
- don't imply use the 16 names and limit self to that
- 16:04:21 [wendy]
- web safe colors?
- 16:04:48 [wendy]
- these are about how many colors can monitor display (i.e., 256 or millions). as monitors get better, less of an issue
- 16:06:34 [wendy]
- action wendy: find out list of color names (is it only the 16 from css specs, e.g., orange?) propose technique for css techs
- 16:07:39 [wendy]
- http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=735
- 16:11:21 [wendy]
- action ben: research 735 - suggestions written based on older techs. newer better ways to do. research and propose technique.
- 16:12:36 [Zakim]
- -Lisa_Seeman
- 16:12:42 [Zakim]
- -Chris_Ridpath
- 16:12:45 [ChrisR]
- ChrisR has left #wai-wcag
- 16:15:32 [wendy]
- ben fix typos
- 16:15:55 [wendy]
- http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=738
- 16:18:34 [wendy]
- need to research about how this issue has evolved
- 16:20:27 [wendy]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2001JanMar/0495.html
- 16:22:34 [wendy]
- support for other issue
- 16:22:35 [wendy]
- http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=740
- 16:30:18 [wendy]
- action dave: take example, make work, convert to xhtml, gather info from css compatibility charts for these properties
- 16:32:16 [Zakim]
- -Don_Evans
- 16:37:46 [ben]
- zakim, who is here?
- 16:37:46 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see [Microsoft], Dave_MacDonald, Ben, Wendy
- 16:37:47 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ben
- 16:37:48 [wendy]
- wendy has joined #wai-wcag
- 16:41:07 [Zakim]
- -Ben
- 16:41:08 [Zakim]
- -Wendy
- 16:41:09 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 16:41:10 [Zakim]
- WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended
- 16:41:11 [Zakim]
- Attendees were [Microsoft], Don_Evans, Dave_MacDonald, Chris_Ridpath, Wendy, Ben, Lisa_Seeman
- 16:41:16 [ben]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- I see 9 open action items:
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: items to develop techniques to explain. find real-world examples. [1]
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/02/11-wai-wcag-irc#T15-13-31
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: chris look for real-world examples that use structural markup in tables and other examples that blur line between data and layout. [2]
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/02/11-wai-wcag-irc#T15-14-26
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: wendy ask joe about his list of tables [3]
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/02/11-wai-wcag-irc#T15-14-33
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: jenae to look at RDF TEchniques with testability in mind [4]
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/02/11-wai-wcag-irc#T15-26-19
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: lisa and wendy talk more about process issues related to developing an ontology [5]
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/02/11-wai-wcag-irc#T15-44-17
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: wendy send lisa markpu suggestions [6]
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/02/11-wai-wcag-irc#T15-52-15
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: wendy to find out list of color names (is it only the 16 from css specs, e.g., orange?) propose technique for css techs [7]
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/02/11-wai-wcag-irc#T16-06-34
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: ben to research 735 - suggestions written based on older techs. newer better ways to do. research and propose technique. [8]
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/02/11-wai-wcag-irc#T16-11-21
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: dave to take example, make work, convert to xhtml, gather info from css compatibility charts for these properties [9]
- 16:41:16 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/02/11-wai-wcag-irc#T16-30-18