IRC log of wai-wcag on 2003-10-16
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 19:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
- 20:00:01 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 20:00:01 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero, Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang
- 20:00:02 [bengt]
- bengt has joined #wai-wcag
- 20:00:09 [wendy]
- zakim, who's talking?
- 20:00:20 [Zakim]
- wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 7 (61%), Wendy (69%)
- 20:00:27 [Zakim]
- +Dave_MacDonald
- 20:00:28 [Zakim]
- +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
- 20:00:35 [rellero]
- zakim, mute Roberto_Ellero
- 20:00:35 [Zakim]
- Roberto_Ellero should now be muted
- 20:00:37 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone/
- 20:00:37 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who's on the phone/', wendy
- 20:00:39 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 20:00:39 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
- 20:01:00 [wendy]
- zakim, who's talking?
- 20:01:03 [Zakim]
- +??P21
- 20:01:07 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 20:01:09 [Zakim]
- +??P22
- 20:01:10 [Zakim]
- wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Dave_MacDonald (13%), Wendy (19%)
- 20:01:15 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P21 may be Bengt
- 20:01:15 [Zakim]
- +Bengt?; got it
- 20:01:20 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P19 may be Tom
- 20:01:20 [Zakim]
- +Tom?; got it
- 20:01:38 [Zakim]
- +Matt
- 20:01:39 [Zakim]
- -??P22
- 20:01:42 [rscano]
- zakim, ??P22 is Roberto_Castaldo
- 20:01:42 [Zakim]
- sorry, rscano, I do not recognize a party named '??P22'
- 20:01:43 [sh1mmer]
- i dropped on purpose
- 20:01:55 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 20:01:55 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt?, Tom?,
- 20:01:57 [rscano]
- zalom, Tom is Roberto_Castaldo
- 20:01:58 [Zakim]
- ... Matt
- 20:02:04 [Yvette]
- zakim, mute me
- 20:02:04 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
- 20:02:08 [rscano]
- zakim, Tom is Roberto_Castaldo
- 20:02:08 [Zakim]
- +Roberto_Castaldo; got it
- 20:02:17 [bcaldwell]
- bcaldwell has joined #wai-wcag
- 20:02:24 [rscano]
- zakim, who is here?
- 20:02:24 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink (muted), Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt?,
- 20:02:27 [Zakim]
- ... Roberto_Castaldo, Matt
- 20:02:28 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see bcaldwell, bengt, RRSAgent, sh1mmer, rcastaldo, wendy, Yvette, Zakim, rellero, rscano
- 20:02:30 [Zakim]
- +??P2
- 20:02:30 [Zakim]
- + +1.512.823.aaaa
- 20:02:34 [Yvette]
- zakim, unmute me
- 20:02:34 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
- 20:02:49 [sh1mmer]
- Zakim, Tom is ??p2
- 20:02:49 [Zakim]
- sorry, sh1mmer, I do not recognize a party named 'Tom'
- 20:02:52 [wendy]
- zakim, +1.512.823.aaaa is Andi_Snow-Weaver
- 20:02:52 [Zakim]
- +Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it
- 20:02:59 [Yvette]
- zakim, ??P2 is Tom
- 20:02:59 [Zakim]
- +Tom; got it
- 20:03:05 [sh1mmer]
- Zakim, I am Tom
- 20:03:05 [Zakim]
- ok, sh1mmer, I now associate you with Tom
- 20:03:07 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 20:03:07 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald (muted), Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt?,
- 20:03:08 [bengt]
- got a lot of noise today
- 20:03:10 [Zakim]
- ... Roberto_Castaldo, Matt, Tom, Andi_Snow-Weaver
- 20:03:11 [Zakim]
- +JasonWhite
- 20:03:17 [Yvette]
- yep :-(
- 20:03:19 [wendy]
- zakim, who's talking?
- 20:03:30 [Zakim]
- wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mike_Barta (9%), Yvette_Hoitink (4%), Roberto_Castaldo (27%), Andi_Snow-Weaver (4%), JasonWhite (6%)
- 20:03:38 [Zakim]
- +??P25
- 20:03:42 [rscano]
- zakim, mute Roberto_Castaldo
- 20:03:42 [Zakim]
- Roberto_Castaldo should now be muted
- 20:03:52 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P25 is Doyle_Burnett
- 20:03:52 [Zakim]
- +Doyle_Burnett; got it
- 20:03:58 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 20:03:58 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt?,
- 20:04:01 [Zakim]
- ... Roberto_Castaldo (muted), Matt, Tom, Andi_Snow-Weaver, JasonWhite, Doyle_Burnett
- 20:04:02 [Zakim]
- + +1.512.471.aabb
- 20:04:11 [wendy]
- zakim, +1.512.471.aabb is John_Slatin
- 20:04:11 [Zakim]
- +John_Slatin; got it
- 20:04:24 [rscano]
- zakim, who is here?
- 20:04:25 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt?,
- 20:04:29 [Zakim]
- ... Roberto_Castaldo (muted), Matt, Tom, Andi_Snow-Weaver, JasonWhite, Doyle_Burnett, John_Slatin
- 20:04:31 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see bcaldwell, bengt, RRSAgent, sh1mmer, rcastaldo, wendy, Yvette, Zakim, rellero, rscano
- 20:04:48 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 20:04:56 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P8 is Cynthia_Shelly
- 20:04:56 [Zakim]
- +Cynthia_Shelly; got it
- 20:05:19 [rellero]
- :)
- 20:05:25 [Zakim]
- +??P27
- 20:05:26 [rcastaldo]
- Wonderful, Rob
- 20:05:45 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P27 is Ben-and-Gregg
- 20:05:45 [Zakim]
- +Ben-and-Gregg; got it
- 20:06:08 [wendy]
- zakim, who's making noise?
- 20:06:21 [Zakim]
- wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Roberto_Scano (65%), Yvette_Hoitink (19%), Doyle_Burnett (4%), John_Slatin (4%), Wendy (22%)
- 20:06:25 [rscano]
- zakim, mute me
- 20:06:26 [Zakim]
- sorry, rscano, I do not see a party named 'rscano'
- 20:06:28 [bengt]
- me too
- 20:06:32 [rscano]
- zakim, I am Roberto_Scano
- 20:06:32 [Zakim]
- ok, rscano, I now associate you with Roberto_Scano
- 20:06:34 [rscano]
- zakim, mute me
- 20:06:34 [Zakim]
- Roberto_Scano should now be muted
- 20:06:43 [Zakim]
- -Yvette_Hoitink
- 20:06:48 [wendy]
- thx yvette.
- 20:06:52 [sh1mmer]
- to make the irc logs cleaner you can message Zakim directly with requests
- 20:06:56 [sh1mmer]
- :)
- 20:07:06 [rscano]
- yep sorry :DF
- 20:07:07 [rellero]
- today my line is excellent, after 2 weeks of noise :)
- 20:07:17 [wendy]
- :) good
- 20:07:22 [Zakim]
- +??P15
- 20:07:33 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P15 is Yvette
- 20:07:33 [Zakim]
- +Yvette; got it
- 20:07:40 [Yvette]
- zakim, I am Yvette
- 20:07:40 [Zakim]
- ok, Yvette, I now associate you with Yvette
- 20:07:47 [m3mSEA]
- m3mSEA has joined #wai-wcag
- 20:07:50 [wendy]
- zakim, mute yvette
- 20:07:50 [Zakim]
- Yvette should now be muted
- 20:07:58 [m3mSEA]
- zakim, who's making noise?
- 20:08:10 [Zakim]
- m3mSEA, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tom (4%), Michael_Cooper (14%), Andi_Snow-Weaver (35%), Doyle_Burnett (21%), Wendy (9%), JasonWhite (17%)
- 20:08:13 [Zakim]
- +??P28
- 20:08:21 [bengt]
- Ill drop and come back
- 20:08:29 [Zakim]
- -Bengt?
- 20:08:38 [Zakim]
- -Andi_Snow-Weaver
- 20:09:01 [Zakim]
- +Andi_Snow-Weaver
- 20:09:14 [wendy]
- zakim, who's making noise
- 20:09:14 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who's making noise', wendy
- 20:09:16 [wendy]
- zakim, who's making noise?
- 20:09:28 [Zakim]
- wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Wendy (69%)
- 20:09:38 [wendy]
- thanks everyone!
- 20:09:49 [wendy]
- :)
- 20:10:03 [Zakim]
- +??P22
- 20:10:15 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P22 is Bengt_Farre
- 20:10:15 [Zakim]
- +Bengt_Farre; got it
- 20:10:19 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 20:10:19 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Roberto_Scano (muted), Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Roberto_Castaldo
- 20:10:22 [Zakim]
- ... (muted), Matt, Tom (muted), JasonWhite, Doyle_Burnett (muted), John_Slatin, Cynthia_Shelly, Ben-and-Gregg, Yvette (muted), ??P28, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Bengt_Farre
- 20:10:25 [bengt]
- zakim, I am Bengt_Farre
- 20:10:25 [Zakim]
- ok, bengt, I now associate you with Bengt_Farre
- 20:10:28 [wendy]
- who's 28?
- 20:10:53 [sh1mmer]
- q+
- 20:11:41 [Yvette]
- zakim, Yvette is Yvette_Hoitink
- 20:11:41 [Zakim]
- +Yvette_Hoitink; got it
- 20:11:55 [wendy]
- reorg: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2003/10/reorg5.html
- 20:12:08 [sh1mmer]
- ack Tom
- 20:12:09 [wendy]
- glad to me more in sync w/wcag 1.0, but don't want to be too in synch.
- 20:12:18 [wendy]
- q?
- 20:12:43 [wendy]
- "available in non-normative formats" - any reason why non-normative?
- 20:13:02 [wendy]
- haven't got discussion back from wendy's action item about multiple views.
- 20:13:19 [wendy]
- concern about having that up-front. might be interepreted as A being non-normative.
- 20:13:28 [wendy]
- like single-A being highlighted.
- 20:13:49 [wendy]
- like the CKW organization, clear from TOC that there are some things required and some that are are not.
- 20:14:03 [wendy]
- here, have to look at each checkpoint to see what is in the minimum set.
- 20:14:34 [wendy]
- instead of org by guideline, org by minimum requirement, then have 2 or 3 sections.
- 20:14:41 [Yvette]
- q+ to say "I love this new proposal since it feels familiar"
- 20:14:49 [m3mSEA]
- q+
- 20:15:02 [wendy]
- ack yvette
- 20:15:03 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink, you wanted to say "I love this new proposal since it feels familiar"
- 20:15:15 [GVAN]
- GVAN has joined #wai-wcag
- 20:15:35 [wendy]
- familiar for people who already know WCAG 1.0.
- 20:15:46 [wendy]
- will make transition from 1.0 to 2.0 easier.
- 20:15:55 [wendy]
- ack m3m
- 20:16:46 [wendy]
- doc that goes into /TR should be full set. this reorg doesn't have any of the desriptive part that is needed by people who want to learn about web accessibility.
- 20:17:00 [rscano]
- I agree with Matt
- 20:17:13 [wendy]
- not much value in splitting out. if people want to split, they can.
- 20:17:21 [bcaldwell]
- q+ to ask matt for clarification on full set -- a-aa-aaa.html does not include informative benefits and examples
- 20:17:25 [Yvette]
- zakim, mute me
- 20:17:25 [Zakim]
- Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
- 20:17:34 [wendy]
- if take single doc as is, people who only adopt A will miss other things (stuff above minimum).
- 20:18:25 [wendy]
- there are success criteria for A and AA, and additional criteria for AAA. However, don't want to see AAA level because HIRR will be low, thus don't want evaluation tools that will create this.
- 20:18:39 [wendy]
- [do other people hear static or is it my line? I'm using VOIP today]
- 20:18:56 [Yvette]
- I hear an echo only, no static
- 20:19:09 [wendy]
- [sorry, yes echo]
- 20:19:12 [wendy]
- ack bcaldwell
- 20:19:12 [Zakim]
- bcaldwell, you wanted to ask matt for clarification on full set -- a-aa-aaa.html does not include informative benefits and examples
- 20:19:43 [wendy]
- matt realizes that you can get all info in sep view
- 20:19:46 [sh1mmer]
- ack Sailesh
- 20:20:20 [wendy]
- in wcag 1.0, A, AA, AAA related to conformance whereas had priorities. do we want to label A, AA, AAA in 2.0 as category 1, 2, 3?
- 20:20:56 [wendy]
- can someone else capture that?
- 20:21:14 [sh1mmer]
- Zakim, who is speaking
- 20:21:14 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is speaking', sh1mmer
- 20:21:25 [sh1mmer]
- Zakim, who is making noise
- 20:21:25 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is making noise', sh1mmer
- 20:21:55 [wendy]
- AAA (the 3rd criteria) shouldn't be there, because what is AAA correspond to best practices. BP are dependent on environment people are looking at web content. what is good for one situation might not be good for another.
- 20:22:06 [wendy]
- therefore, return to earlier proposal where best practices should not be in the document.
- 20:22:11 [wendy]
- an example?
- 20:22:56 [wendy]
- e.g., 4.2 or 4.3 refer to PDF doc. depending on asst. tech, PDF might not be usable at all.
- 20:23:10 [wendy]
- (accessibility of PDF plug-in) might want to plain html instead.