IRC log of wai-wcag on 2003-10-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:59:54 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:01 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:00:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero, Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang
20:00:02 [bengt]
bengt has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:09 [wendy]
zakim, who's talking?
20:00:20 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 7 (61%), Wendy (69%)
20:00:27 [Zakim]
+Dave_MacDonald
20:00:28 [Zakim]
+Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:00:35 [rellero]
zakim, mute Roberto_Ellero
20:00:35 [Zakim]
Roberto_Ellero should now be muted
20:00:37 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone/
20:00:37 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's on the phone/', wendy
20:00:39 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:00:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:01:00 [wendy]
zakim, who's talking?
20:01:03 [Zakim]
+??P21
20:01:07 [Zakim]
+??P19
20:01:09 [Zakim]
+??P22
20:01:10 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Dave_MacDonald (13%), Wendy (19%)
20:01:15 [wendy]
zakim, ??P21 may be Bengt
20:01:15 [Zakim]
+Bengt?; got it
20:01:20 [wendy]
zakim, ??P19 may be Tom
20:01:20 [Zakim]
+Tom?; got it
20:01:38 [Zakim]
+Matt
20:01:39 [Zakim]
-??P22
20:01:42 [rscano]
zakim, ??P22 is Roberto_Castaldo
20:01:42 [Zakim]
sorry, rscano, I do not recognize a party named '??P22'
20:01:43 [sh1mmer]
i dropped on purpose
20:01:55 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:01:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt?, Tom?,
20:01:57 [rscano]
zalom, Tom is Roberto_Castaldo
20:01:58 [Zakim]
... Matt
20:02:04 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
20:02:04 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:02:08 [rscano]
zakim, Tom is Roberto_Castaldo
20:02:08 [Zakim]
+Roberto_Castaldo; got it
20:02:17 [bcaldwell]
bcaldwell has joined #wai-wcag
20:02:24 [rscano]
zakim, who is here?
20:02:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink (muted), Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt?,
20:02:27 [Zakim]
... Roberto_Castaldo, Matt
20:02:28 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bcaldwell, bengt, RRSAgent, sh1mmer, rcastaldo, wendy, Yvette, Zakim, rellero, rscano
20:02:30 [Zakim]
+??P2
20:02:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.823.aaaa
20:02:34 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
20:02:34 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
20:02:49 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, Tom is ??p2
20:02:49 [Zakim]
sorry, sh1mmer, I do not recognize a party named 'Tom'
20:02:52 [wendy]
zakim, +1.512.823.aaaa is Andi_Snow-Weaver
20:02:52 [Zakim]
+Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it
20:02:59 [Yvette]
zakim, ??P2 is Tom
20:02:59 [Zakim]
+Tom; got it
20:03:05 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, I am Tom
20:03:05 [Zakim]
ok, sh1mmer, I now associate you with Tom
20:03:07 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:03:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald (muted), Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt?,
20:03:08 [bengt]
got a lot of noise today
20:03:10 [Zakim]
... Roberto_Castaldo, Matt, Tom, Andi_Snow-Weaver
20:03:11 [Zakim]
+JasonWhite
20:03:17 [Yvette]
yep :-(
20:03:19 [wendy]
zakim, who's talking?
20:03:30 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mike_Barta (9%), Yvette_Hoitink (4%), Roberto_Castaldo (27%), Andi_Snow-Weaver (4%), JasonWhite (6%)
20:03:38 [Zakim]
+??P25
20:03:42 [rscano]
zakim, mute Roberto_Castaldo
20:03:42 [Zakim]
Roberto_Castaldo should now be muted
20:03:52 [wendy]
zakim, ??P25 is Doyle_Burnett
20:03:52 [Zakim]
+Doyle_Burnett; got it
20:03:58 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:03:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt?,
20:04:01 [Zakim]
... Roberto_Castaldo (muted), Matt, Tom, Andi_Snow-Weaver, JasonWhite, Doyle_Burnett
20:04:02 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.471.aabb
20:04:11 [wendy]
zakim, +1.512.471.aabb is John_Slatin
20:04:11 [Zakim]
+John_Slatin; got it
20:04:24 [rscano]
zakim, who is here?
20:04:25 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Yvette_Hoitink, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt?,
20:04:29 [Zakim]
... Roberto_Castaldo (muted), Matt, Tom, Andi_Snow-Weaver, JasonWhite, Doyle_Burnett, John_Slatin
20:04:31 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bcaldwell, bengt, RRSAgent, sh1mmer, rcastaldo, wendy, Yvette, Zakim, rellero, rscano
20:04:48 [Zakim]
+??P8
20:04:56 [wendy]
zakim, ??P8 is Cynthia_Shelly
20:04:56 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly; got it
20:05:19 [rellero]
:)
20:05:25 [Zakim]
+??P27
20:05:26 [rcastaldo]
Wonderful, Rob
20:05:45 [wendy]
zakim, ??P27 is Ben-and-Gregg
20:05:45 [Zakim]
+Ben-and-Gregg; got it
20:06:08 [wendy]
zakim, who's making noise?
20:06:21 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Roberto_Scano (65%), Yvette_Hoitink (19%), Doyle_Burnett (4%), John_Slatin (4%), Wendy (22%)
20:06:25 [rscano]
zakim, mute me
20:06:26 [Zakim]
sorry, rscano, I do not see a party named 'rscano'
20:06:28 [bengt]
me too
20:06:32 [rscano]
zakim, I am Roberto_Scano
20:06:32 [Zakim]
ok, rscano, I now associate you with Roberto_Scano
20:06:34 [rscano]
zakim, mute me
20:06:34 [Zakim]
Roberto_Scano should now be muted
20:06:43 [Zakim]
-Yvette_Hoitink
20:06:48 [wendy]
thx yvette.
20:06:52 [sh1mmer]
to make the irc logs cleaner you can message Zakim directly with requests
20:06:56 [sh1mmer]
:)
20:07:06 [rscano]
yep sorry :DF
20:07:07 [rellero]
today my line is excellent, after 2 weeks of noise :)
20:07:17 [wendy]
:) good
20:07:22 [Zakim]
+??P15
20:07:33 [wendy]
zakim, ??P15 is Yvette
20:07:33 [Zakim]
+Yvette; got it
20:07:40 [Yvette]
zakim, I am Yvette
20:07:40 [Zakim]
ok, Yvette, I now associate you with Yvette
20:07:47 [m3mSEA]
m3mSEA has joined #wai-wcag
20:07:50 [wendy]
zakim, mute yvette
20:07:50 [Zakim]
Yvette should now be muted
20:07:58 [m3mSEA]
zakim, who's making noise?
20:08:10 [Zakim]
m3mSEA, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tom (4%), Michael_Cooper (14%), Andi_Snow-Weaver (35%), Doyle_Burnett (21%), Wendy (9%), JasonWhite (17%)
20:08:13 [Zakim]
+??P28
20:08:21 [bengt]
Ill drop and come back
20:08:29 [Zakim]
-Bengt?
20:08:38 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow-Weaver
20:09:01 [Zakim]
+Andi_Snow-Weaver
20:09:14 [wendy]
zakim, who's making noise
20:09:14 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's making noise', wendy
20:09:16 [wendy]
zakim, who's making noise?
20:09:28 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Wendy (69%)
20:09:38 [wendy]
thanks everyone!
20:09:49 [wendy]
:)
20:10:03 [Zakim]
+??P22
20:10:15 [wendy]
zakim, ??P22 is Bengt_Farre
20:10:15 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
20:10:19 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:10:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roberto_Scano (muted), Roberto_Ellero (muted), Mike_Barta, Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh_Panchang, Dave_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Roberto_Castaldo
20:10:22 [Zakim]
... (muted), Matt, Tom (muted), JasonWhite, Doyle_Burnett (muted), John_Slatin, Cynthia_Shelly, Ben-and-Gregg, Yvette (muted), ??P28, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Bengt_Farre
20:10:25 [bengt]
zakim, I am Bengt_Farre
20:10:25 [Zakim]
ok, bengt, I now associate you with Bengt_Farre
20:10:28 [wendy]
who's 28?
20:10:53 [sh1mmer]
q+
20:11:41 [Yvette]
zakim, Yvette is Yvette_Hoitink
20:11:41 [Zakim]
+Yvette_Hoitink; got it
20:11:55 [wendy]
reorg: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2003/10/reorg5.html
20:12:08 [sh1mmer]
ack Tom
20:12:09 [wendy]
glad to me more in sync w/wcag 1.0, but don't want to be too in synch.
20:12:18 [wendy]
q?
20:12:43 [wendy]
"available in non-normative formats" - any reason why non-normative?
20:13:02 [wendy]
haven't got discussion back from wendy's action item about multiple views.
20:13:19 [wendy]
concern about having that up-front. might be interepreted as A being non-normative.
20:13:28 [wendy]
like single-A being highlighted.
20:13:49 [wendy]
like the CKW organization, clear from TOC that there are some things required and some that are are not.
20:14:03 [wendy]
here, have to look at each checkpoint to see what is in the minimum set.
20:14:34 [wendy]
instead of org by guideline, org by minimum requirement, then have 2 or 3 sections.
20:14:41 [Yvette]
q+ to say "I love this new proposal since it feels familiar"
20:14:49 [m3mSEA]
q+
20:15:02 [wendy]
ack yvette
20:15:03 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink, you wanted to say "I love this new proposal since it feels familiar"
20:15:15 [GVAN]
GVAN has joined #wai-wcag
20:15:35 [wendy]
familiar for people who already know WCAG 1.0.
20:15:46 [wendy]
will make transition from 1.0 to 2.0 easier.
20:15:55 [wendy]
ack m3m
20:16:46 [wendy]
doc that goes into /TR should be full set. this reorg doesn't have any of the desriptive part that is needed by people who want to learn about web accessibility.
20:17:00 [rscano]
I agree with Matt
20:17:13 [wendy]
not much value in splitting out. if people want to split, they can.
20:17:21 [bcaldwell]
q+ to ask matt for clarification on full set -- a-aa-aaa.html does not include informative benefits and examples
20:17:25 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
20:17:25 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:17:34 [wendy]
if take single doc as is, people who only adopt A will miss other things (stuff above minimum).
20:18:25 [wendy]
there are success criteria for A and AA, and additional criteria for AAA. However, don't want to see AAA level because HIRR will be low, thus don't want evaluation tools that will create this.
20:18:39 [wendy]
[do other people hear static or is it my line? I'm using VOIP today]
20:18:56 [Yvette]
I hear an echo only, no static
20:19:09 [wendy]
[sorry, yes echo]
20:19:12 [wendy]
ack bcaldwell
20:19:12 [Zakim]
bcaldwell, you wanted to ask matt for clarification on full set -- a-aa-aaa.html does not include informative benefits and examples
20:19:43 [wendy]
matt realizes that you can get all info in sep view
20:19:46 [sh1mmer]
ack Sailesh
20:20:20 [wendy]
in wcag 1.0, A, AA, AAA related to conformance whereas had priorities. do we want to label A, AA, AAA in 2.0 as category 1, 2, 3?
20:20:56 [wendy]
can someone else capture that?
20:21:14 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, who is speaking
20:21:14 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is speaking', sh1mmer
20:21:25 [sh1mmer]
Zakim, who is making noise
20:21:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is making noise', sh1mmer
20:21:55 [wendy]
AAA (the 3rd criteria) shouldn't be there, because what is AAA correspond to best practices. BP are dependent on environment people are looking at web content. what is good for one situation might not be good for another.
20:22:06 [wendy]
therefore, return to earlier proposal where best practices should not be in the document.
20:22:11 [wendy]
an example?
20:22:56 [wendy]
e.g., 4.2 or 4.3 refer to PDF doc. depending on asst. tech, PDF might not be usable at all.
20:23:10 [wendy]
(accessibility of PDF plug-in) might want to plain html instead.