Minutes WS Choreography WG conference call 15 March 2005

IRC log: logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-ws-chor-irc


Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/att-0016/Agenda-03152005-0.txt

1. Role Call: 
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	Nick, Charlton, Gary, Tony, Monica, Greg, Jeff, Yves, Steve, Martin

2. Scribe: 
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	Greg

4. Approval of minutes:
-----------------------
        8th March Minutes
        http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2005Mar/att-0003/MeetingMinutes20050308-0.txt
	APPROVED

        F2F Minutes
        http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2005Mar/att-0001/Ws_Chor_f2f__Feb-Mar_2005_-0.txt
	APPROVED

5. Action item review:
----------------------
        1. ACTION: Martin to do UML diagram from scratch for CDL
		IN PROGRESS

        2. ACTION on Gary to follow-up with issuer Kohei on issue 1101
           Gary has followed up and not heard from Koehi just yet -
		IN PROGRESS

        3. ACTION on Gary to follow-up with issuer (Kohei) on issue 1102
           Gary has followed up and not heard from Koehi just yet
		IN PROGRESS

        4. ACTION: Chairs (after previous action and/or in parallel) Check extra
           resourcing from the WG
		DONE

        5. ACTION: SRT Check 1027 for issues pertaining to identity
		IN PROGRESS

        6. ACTION: Add text in primer or spec to clarify participant relationship/role pertaining to issue 1027
		IN PROGRESS

        7. ACTION: Charlton will sanity check issue pertaining to issue 1008 and WSDL bindings (faults)
		IN PROGRESS,  findingd sent to list

        8. ACTION: Log an issue for Nick/Martin to explore relaxing the  requirement for using XPath
           as the sole expression language.
		REMOVED

        9. ACTION: Chairs to talk with the XPath 2.0 WG to determine the direction of three-valued
           logic and existential qualifiers
		IN PROGRESS

        10. ACTION: SRT to create a new issue about accessory pertaining to issue 1128.
		SRT to investigate - IN PROGRESS

        11. ACTION: SRT to rewrite the exit criteria.
		IN PROGRESS

        12. ACTION: Editors to develop schedule to verify whether they can produce doc by end of May.
		IN PROGRESS

        13. ACTION: chairs to respond to issue raiser for closed issues
		STANDING ITEM

        14. ACTION: Steve to ask Anders and Monica to address issue pertaining to 1092
            Anders to take Charlton's text to meeting and to return with proposal
		IN PROGRESS, Charlton submitted proposed change text to list

        15. ACTION: Steve to learn about this issue from Nick for the Primer (issue 1079)
		IN PROGRESS

        16. ACTION: Steve to put together text related to issue 1079 and send to Ander's for approval
		REMOVED

        17. ACTION: Yves will sort out a list of normative references [1]
		IN PROGRESS

        18. ACTION: define what is meant by correctness - see above [2]
		ASSIGNED TO Yves

        19. ACTION: Yves to define the MIME type [3]
		IN PROGRESS

        20. ACTION: Charlton to talk to submitter to provide clarity of isue [4]
		IN PROGRESS

        21. ACTION: WG needs to review email from Kohei: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0005.html Chairs to put on agenda to discuss further
		DONE


6. Issues requiring discussion
------------------------------
These are from Greg R:

        1018    http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1018
        Summary: Information model - Section 2.3.2, 2nd last paragraph
        URL:    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0022.html
        Status: Editorial issue 1020 depends on its resolution

	Bug  1018 discussion
	MChapman: change:
		role type="qname" behavior="list of ncname"? />
	MChapman: to:
		roleType type="qname" behavior="list of ncname"? />
	PROPOSAL ADOPTED

        1035    http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1035
        Summary: Point of clarity - Section 2.5.2.3, 11th paragraph, 3rd bullet
        URL:    http://http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0022.html
        NOTE:
                has to have just a simple sentence pointing back to 2.4.2; not
                more otherwise we have to drag the whole paragraph from 2.4.2 that
                talks about vars + roles.
        Recommendation:
                Either close/not a bug or add:
                        Suggested text: "a variable is associated with a specific role as described
                        in section 2.4.2"
	Bug 1035 discussion
	Monica: referencing back is OK
	Suggested text:
		a variable is associated with a specific role as described in section 2.4.2
	PROPOSAL ADOPTED


        998     http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=998
	Summary: State that sequential lexically ordering is the default for interpretation of CDL
        URL:    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0001.html

	Bug 998 discussion:
	Tony: solution is to state default "up front".
	Nick: why do you want to prescribe order of parsing?
	Tony: if you have no ordering construct I assume the order that they are written.
	Steve: if we do this, does this mean that we have semantics correctly defined in order to "avoid 
		doubt".
	Tony: Make lexical order explicit.
	Steve: what is the problem of putting this in the spec?
	Martin: not normal practice to state this
	Tony; languages like Java must state lexical ordering somewhere
	Monica: better to apply this to those specifc sections of the spec.
	Martin: +1
	charlton: Charlton: +1
	m2: Seeking compromise
	Greg: +1
	ISSUE OPEN, REQUIRING CLARIFACTION FROM ISSUE AUTHOR.

        1000    http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1000
        Summary: CDL 'ROLE' FUNCTIONS
        URL:    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0004.html

	Bug 1000 discussion:
	Gary: in some cases thr role attribute causes confusion.
	Gary: is the role attr. required?
	Gary: time functions have similar problem
	Nick: in some cases the context is not enough
	Nick: in getVariable() the a role is optional
	Nick: role is inferred from the context
	Take same text from getVariable() and apply to other functions.
	From the spec: The fourth parameter is OPTIONAL. When the fourth parameter is used, 
		the Variable information MUST be available at the Role specified by roleName. 
		If this parameter is not used then the Role is inferred from the context that 
		this function is used.
	Applied to RoleName to all functions and making RoleName optional rather than mandatory
	Changing "fourth" to the appropriate number for the function.
	PROPOSAL ABOVE ACCEPTED.
	MARK BUG EDITORIAL

        1002    http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1002
        Summary: RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN RELATIONSHIP TYPES
        URL:    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0005.html

	Bug 1002 discussion.
	Steve: disjoint choregroahies
	Steve: swimlanes examples
	Gary: in chors that share participants, participants are the glue joining discrete chors.
	Gary: 1 perform statements in sequence, in ep projection, one participant knows about 1st 
		perform. 2nd knows about other perform. Neither knows about the sequence.
		1 perform statements...
		2 perform statements ...
	ISSUE OPEN, REQUIRING CLARIFACTION FROM ISSUE AUTHOR.

	09:21PM * RRSAgent records action 2
	MChapman: i think the actual issue is about a common participant

        1006    http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1006
        Summary: RECORD REFERENCE (in Interaction) RESTRICTION
        URL:    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0010.html

        1023    http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1023
        Summary: Question on constraint - Section 2.3.3, 3rd paragraph, last sentence
        URL:    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0022.html

        1074    http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1074`
        Summary: Language Extensibility and Binding - suggested change to an Extensions rule
        URL:    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0037.html

        1075    http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1075
        Summary: Channel Types - attribute "usage" should be made an Element
        URL:    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0037.html

        1092    http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1092
        Summary: State relationship between WS-CDL and ebBP
        URL:    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Jan/0034.html

	Bug 1092 discussion:
	charlton: "Relationship with the ebXML Business Process framework
	charlton: The ebXML Business Process Specification Schema technical specification, the product of ongoing work contributed by OASIS and UN/CEFACT, defines a standardized language by which business systems may be configured to support execution of business collaborations. Such business collaborations consist of business transactions, which are implemented through semantics defined in one of several standard, extensible or trading partner-specific business transa
	charlton: ction patterns. These patterns specify the business message exchange (requests, responses and business signals) applicable to a given business transaction definition.
charlton: As of ebBP v2.0, defined Business Transaction patterns can be mapped to abstract operations. When preferable, these can be combined with CPPA support of concrete WSDL to allow the mapping of business transaction activities and well-defined transaction patterns to WSDL abstract operations in disparate environment, while leveraging the reuse of business transactions in collaborations.
	charlton: In such cases, CDL and ebBP could be used in a loosely coupled, yet complementary manner, where CDL supports the choreography based on endpoint references related to WSDL, while ebBP specifies the operation mapping to the recognized business transaction patterns. This association is beneficial and useful where complex activities occur in the collaboration environment. "
Zakim: -Abbie_Barbir
	monica: ebBp patterns are based on business (scenerios?)
	Martin: then we ned to say something like that in the text.
	Charlton: Martin, what do you want to seein the text?
	Nick: what are we missing?
	Charlton: here we are discussing the convergence points.
	MChapman: good point srt!
	MChapman: +1
	Steve: If I give you example from Primer. Want to see how it fits into ebBP.
	Steve: Need to be able to explain relationship between ebBP and WS-CDL, confidently.
	charlton: one sentence description
	abbie: +1 srt
	charlton: "CDL and ebBP converge on operation mapping and CPPA support of concrete WSDL"
	charlton: (the "how")
	Steve will provide charlton an monica with example by end of week.
	Charlton: acknowledges request for example and descriptive text.
	NEW ACTION: Steve will provide charlton an monica with example by end of week.

7. AOB:
-------
	F2F: Location definitely in the UK
	F2F: Definitely June 13-14
	F2F: Room has been promised to Steve
	F2F: Food/refreshments issue being sorted out
	F2F: WG to prepare food & refreshments? :-D

SUMMARY OF ACTIONS:
-------------------

NEW ACTION: SRT to put Kohei's email on agenda
NEW ACTION: Steve will provide charlton an monica with example by end of week.