W3C XML Protocol teleconference, 24th Jan, 2001

See also:

 PRESENT 46/35
Active Data Exchange     Richard Martin  principal
Akamai Technologies Mark Nottingham      principal
Allaire   Glen Daniels   principal
AT&T Mark Jones     principal
AT&T Michah Lerner  alternate
Bowstreet Alex Ceponkus  alternate
Canon     Jean-Jacques Moreau principal
Compaq    Yin-Leng Husband    principal
Compaq    Kevin Perkins  alternate
DaimlerChrysler R. & Tech     Mario Jeckle    principal
Data Research Associates Mark Needleman  principal
DataChannel    Brian Eisenberg     alternate
Engenia Software    Jeffrey Kay    principal
Epicentric     Bjoern Heckel  principal
Ericsson Research Canada Nilo Mitra      principal
Hewlett Packard     David Ezell    principal
Hewlett Packard     Stuart Williams      alternate
IBM  David Fallside chair
IBM  John Ibbotson  principal
IONA Technologies   Oisin Hurley   principal
Library of Congress Ray Denenberg  principal
Lotus Development   Noah Mendelsohn      principal
Matsushita Electric Ryuji Inoue    principal
Microsoft Corporation    Henrik Nielsen  principal
Microsoft Corporation    Paul Cotton     alternate
Mitre     Marwan Sabbouh principal
Mitre     Paul Denning   alternate
Netscape  Vidur Apparao  principal
Oracle    David Clay     principal
Oracle    Jim Trezzo     alternate
Philips Research    Yasser alSafadi      principal
Progress Software   Andrew Eisenberg     principal
Rogue Wave     Murali Janakiraman  principal
SAP AG    Volker Wiechers     principal
SAP AG    Gerd Hoelzing  alternate
Software AG    Michael Champion    principal
Sun Microsystems    Ed Mooney principal
Sun Microsystems    Mark Baker     alternate
Tibco     Frank DeRose   principal
Unisys    Lynne Thompson principal
Unisys    Nick Smilonich alternate
Vitria Technology Inc.   Waqar Sadiq     principal
W3C  Yves Lafon     team contact
W3C  Hugo Haas alt team contact
WebMethods     Randy Waldrop  principal
Xerox     Tom Breuel     primary
XMLSolutions   Kevin Mitchell principal

Active Data Exchange     Eric Fedok      alternate
Allaire   Simeon Simeonov     alternate
Bowstreet James Tauber   principal
Canon     Herve Ruellan  alternate
DaimlerChrysler R. & Tech     Andreas Riegg   alternate
DataChannel    Mike Dierken   primary
Engenia Software    Eric Jenkins   alternate
Epicentric     Dean Moses     alternate
IBM  Fransisco Cubera    alternate
IONA Technologies   Eric Newcomer  alternate
Library of Congress Rich Greenfield      alternate
Netscape  Ray Whitmer    alternate
Philips Research    Amr Yassin     alternate
Progress Software   Peter Lecuyer  alternate
Rogue Wave     Patrick Thompson    alternate
Software AG    Dietmar Gaertner    alternate
Vitria Technology Inc.   Richard Koo     alternate
XMLSolutions   John Evdemon   alternate

Calico Commerce     Rekha Nagarajan      principal
Cisco     Krishna Sankar principal
Fujitsu Software Corporation  Kazunori Iwasa  principal
Fujitsu Software Corporation  Masahiko Narita      alternate
Group 8760     Dick Brooks    ebXML contact
Informix Software   Soumitro Tagore      alternate
Intel     Randy Hall     principal
Jamcracker     David Orchard  principal
Novell    Scott Isaacson principal
OMG  Henry Lowe     principal

Commerce One   David Burdett  principal
Commerce One   Murray Maloney alternate
DevelopMentor  Martin Gudgin  principal
DevelopMentor  Don Box   alternate
Informix Software   Charles Campbell     principal
NCR  Vilhelm Rosenqvist  principal
NCR  Lew Shannon    alternate


1. Roll call

   Minutes: Kevin Perkins (& Yin Leng Husband)
   Action items: Henrik Nielsen

2. Agenda review, call for AOB:

   David Fallside: majority of the meeting time will be spent going through
   the usage scenarios.
   Ed Mooney: request for the format of envelope to be discussed.

3. Approval of minutes from Jan 17 telcon

   Approved with 1 amendment.

4. Review action items.

   Glen Daniels:     Send use-cases to xml-dist
               waiting for discussions, otherwise, complete.
   David Fallside:   done
   Henrik:           Introductory text
               done, incorporated Bill's revised introductory text
   Hugo:        Minutes published
   Henrik:           done, updated editors' version of requirements doc.
   Stuart:           done, timeline for Strawman not needed.  Public can
               and join in discussions.
   Hugo:        pending as it is an agenda item.
   Req section leads:     pending
   Hugo:        done, checked hits on Requirements doc, around 2100 between
               day of release to January 17th.
   Henrik:           done, 305
   Henrik:           done, 309
   Glen Daniels:     done, reworded DS5
   Glen Daniels:     done, reworded DS6
   John Ibbotson:    pending, to clarify DS7 by end of week
   John Ibbotson:    done, expanded DS8

5. Report from Abstract Model Group

   Stuart Williams:  reported that he has posted names of subgroup members,
   timeline, and exposed draft of model.  No dissent received.  There will
   be an AMG (John Ibbotson, Martin Gudgin, Stuart Williams) f2f meeting on
   29 Jan, 10 am to 5 pm.  Two conference call sessions (10.30 am ? 12
   noon, 3 ? 4.30 pm GMT) will be made available.
   StuartW will send out conference call dial-in details and minutes of
   meeting ( when over) to dist-app.

6. Report from Reqs Doc Section leads on mapping reqs to SOAP 1.1

4.1  General Reqs, John Ibbotson:
     Nothing done yet, but has allocated time for it to be done by end of
     the week.  Format of report is to lodge each issue with an issue
     number against spec.
4.2  Simplicity & Stability, David Ezell
     R300 ? SOAP 1.1 lack of explicit architecture model is an issue.  Will
     report by end of week.
4.3  Data Encapsulation, Oisin Hurley
     701a.  Requirement for encapsulation ? SOAP partially satisfies.
     701b.  Requirement for encapsulation ? Envelope to produce fault
     information, SOAP partially satisfies.  Processing will extend
     700b.  Requirement for extensibility ? SOAP partially satisfies, may
     need to extend the must-understand attribute.
     Requirement for evolution ? SOAP partially satisfies
     Requirement for encapsulation of status ? not satisfied.
     Will write up report after concall by next working day.
4.4  Intermediaries, Mark Nottingham
     No firm concept of transport binding, this needs to be clarified.
     803. Not a problem
806-808.  Processing model not well enough defined.
802. Not a problem.
     Will report by early next week before next concall.
4.5  Data Representation, Paul Cotton
     Nothing done yet, but will have something before next concall.
4.6  Protocol Bindings, Oisin Hurley
     Small amount of text available. Not specifically addressed by SOAP.
     Will report with 4.3
4.7  RPC, Vidur Apparao
     Will report by early next week before next concall.

David Fallside:  Requested the WG to look at encoding.  It will be on
agenda for next concall.

7. Report on status of XP Spec document.

   Hugo:   Started sanitization.  Will send to editorial team tomorrow.

8. Usage Scenarios

   Report from Nilo Mitra on collecting new usage scenarios
   Nilo:   Reported that there were 9 overlooked use cases listed in
   emails.  Will flesh out variants of similar use cases, annotate them
   with comments, make proposal for all, and send them to Henrik who will
   dispose of them as per existing set of use cases, i.e. will remain as
   draft scenarios.  The text should consist of extracted intent, but
   should retain pointers to original text.
   Will be done by Monday for review at next concall.
   John Ibbotson:    Re-written as a result of concall.  Is revision
   consistent with issues raised?  Only David Clay's issue outstanding.
   David sees no issue.  So revised text acceptable to group and will be
   added to Editor's draft copy. It is proposed to label the scenario "S3"
   ? Henrick and Nilo to verify naming

   There is a comment from Mark Baker that the wording seems to specify a
   solution ? current text emphasizes programmatic RPC.  Action is to
   re-word.  Discussion on proposed wording:
   "The sender invokes the service by passing parameters that are
   into a message for transmission to the receiving server."
   Frank will send a proposed re-wording.
   Another discussion on whether there should be additional separate use
   cases for 1-way vs. request-response.  Nilo pointed out that DS19, DS22
   deal with these.  Action is to wait for revised text of DS4, then check
   out DS19 and DS22 to see if it is necessary to create a new DS.

   No comments received yet.
   Marwan queried the significance of positive acknowledgment (as opposed
   to negative acknowledgment?)
   A discussion on meaning of acknowledgement followed.  Acknowledgment is
   at a lower level than user semantics; but not low enough to be at
   transport level's use of ACK and NACK.  Question is what level scenarios
   should be kept at.  This question is related to the Abstract Model work.
   Data is sent from the Application Layer down to XP.  The XP should
   report on the success or failure of delivery of data to recipient.  The
   issue is definition of "success" and how one reports "successful"
   transmission.  In ebXML, there are varying degrees of reliable
   transmission, so it is possible to have different scenarios for
   different degrees of reliability.
   Proposals included removing mention of 'positive', and add some
   indication of degree of success in transmission:
-    "Message is returned indicating the disposition of transfer."
   John Ibbotson will take results of discussion and post proposals and
   co-ordinate re-wording.

   There was another query on whether multiple responses to a single
   request are permitted (see DS20).   Need to look at whether more
   scenarios are required to cover the variations in single/multiple

9. AOB


New action items

Stuart W
Send out details about meeting of the AMG.
Send a write-up of the DS to be included in the editor's requirement document so that they are easier to discuss and refer to. Deadline EOB Monday.
Include output from Nilo in the requirements document
John I
Write up discussion of DS5 - people to write up proposals to the list.