Minutes for the W3C XML Protocol Working Group Wednesday, 17 January, 2001, noon PST, duration 90 minutes.

Roll call, scribes for minutes/action items (5 mins)

Present 40/33
Active Data Exchange     Richard Martin  principal
Allaire   Glen Daniels   principal
AT&T Mark Jones     principal
Bowstreet Alex Ceponkus  alternate
Canon     Herve Ruellan  alternate
Cisco     Krishna Sankar principal
DaimlerChrysler R. & Tech     Mario Jeckle    principal
Data Research Associates Mark Needleman  principal
DataChannel    Brian Eisenberg     primary
DevelopMentor  Martin Gudgin  principal
Engenia Software    Eric Jenkins   alternate
Ericsson Research Canada Nilo Mitra      principal
Fujitsu Software Corporation  Kazunori Iwasa  principal
Hewlett Packard     David Ezell    principal
Hewlett Packard     Stuart Williams      alternate
IBM  David Fallside chair
IBM  John Ibbotson  principal
Informix Software   Soumitro Tagore      alternate
IONA Technologies   Oisin Hurley   principal
Library of Congress Ray Denenberg  principal
Microsoft Corporation    Henrik Nielsen  principal
Mitre     Marwan Sabbouh principal
Mitre     Paul Denning   alternate
Netscape  Vidur Apparao  principal
Netscape  Ray Whitmer    alternate
Novell    Scott Isaacson principal
OMG  Henry Lowe     principal
Oracle    David Clay     principal
Philips Research    Amr Yassin     alternate
Rogue Wave     Murali Janakiraman  principal
SAP AG    Volker Wiechers     principal
SAP AG    Gerd Hoelzing  alternate
Software AG    Michael Champion    principal
Tibco     Frank DeRose   principal
Unisys    Lynne Thompson principal
Unisys    Nick Smilonich alternate
Vitria Technology Inc.   Waqar Sadiq     principal
W3C  Yves Lafon     team contact
W3C  Hugo Haas alt team contact
WebMethods     Randy Waldrop  principal

Active Data Exchange     Eric Fedok      alternate
Allaire   Simeon Simeonov     alternate
AT&T Michah Lerner  alternate
Bowstreet James Tauber   principal
Canon     Jean-Jacques Moreau principal
DaimlerChrysler R. & Tech     Andreas Riegg   alternate
DevelopMentor  Don Box   alternate
Engenia Software    Jeffrey Kay    principal
Fujitsu Software Corporation  Masahiko Narita      alternate
IBM  Fransisco Cubera    alternate
Informix Software   Charles Campbell     principal
IONA Technologies   Eric Newcomer  alternate
Library of Congress Rich Greenfield      alternate
Microsoft Corporation    Paul Cotton     alternate
Oracle    Jim Trezzo     alternate
Philips Research    Yasser alSafadi      principal
Rogue Wave     Patrick Thompson    alternate
Software AG    Dietmar Gaertner    alternate
Vitria Technology Inc.   Richard Koo     alternate

Akamai Technologies Mark Nottingham      principal
Commerce One   David Burdett  principal
Calico Commerce     Rekha Nagarajan      principal
Compaq    Yin-Leng Husband    principal
Compaq    Kevin Perkins  alternate
Group 8760     Dick Brooks    ebXML contact
Intel     Randy Hall     principal
Lotus Development   Noah Mendelsohn      principal
Progress Software   Andrew Eisenberg     principal
Sun Microsystems    Ed Mooney principal
Sun Microsystems    Mark Baker     alternate
Xerox     Bill Anderson  principal
XMLSolutions   Kevin Mitchell principal

Absent Without Explanation
Commerce One   Murray Maloney alternate
Epicentric     Bjoern Heckel  principal
Epicentric     Dean Moses     alternate
Jamcracker     David Orchard  principal
NCR  Vilhelm Rosenqvist  principal
NCR  Lew Shannon    alternate
Progress Software   Peter Lecuyer  alternate
Xerox     Tom Breuel     alternate
XMLSolutions   John Evdemon   alternate


1. Roll call

Minutes: David Clay
Action items: Henrik Nielsen

2. Agenda review, call for AOB No other business.

3. Approval of minutes from Jan 10 telecon Approved as submitted.

4. Review action items

  1. Glen Daniels - Usage scenarios for former DR 805,
  807, 809, 810 (QOS, routing, tracking).  Sent first draft to WG, few
  responses. Received QOS response from Yves Lafon and Paul Denning. Will
  post complete draft scenarios by end of week.

  3. done

  4. done

  5. Henrik Nielsen - Preamble to usage scenarios.  Wrote and sent out to WG
  for review, by end of week will decide what wording to include in editor's
  copy of usage scenarios.

  6. done

5. Abstract model work, status report from Stuart Williams

twelve WG members volunteered to be in subgroup.  Also
coordinating with Hugo.
Here is list of members of this subgroup:
Proposed timeline allows for 2 drafts before Boston f2f, the last to be
distributed one week before the f2f: 1/22-26, subgroup discussion
1/29-2/9, subgroup work on draft 2
2/9, draft 2 to wider group for discussion
2/19, 3rd draft completed, one week before Boston f2fTo speed up process
will announce activities to dist-app with agreement of chair, rather than
entire WG.

Hope to have subgroup f2f since several members geographically close.

6. Moving ahead with XP Spec

Volunteer editorial team:  Martin Gudgin, Henrik
Nielsen, Stuart Williams, Kevin Mitchell, Brian Eisenberg, Hugo Haas
Will meet separately with David Fallside to organize activities.

Mission of group is to produce the actual spec.  Will start with a
sanitized version of the SOAP 1.1 Note which Hugo will produce.
First step will be for requirements doc section leads to map requirements
to SOAP 1.1 note and document issues that arise where the mapping fails.
All req doc section leads signed up to do this.  Henrik Nielsen noted that
his Redmond f2f presentation covered some of the mapping.  The issues which
arise will continue to be tracked in the specification.

The goal for the first generation of the specification is 2/7/2001.

Nilo Mitra has agreed to be responsible for tracking use cases.  Dist-app
must be examined for use cases which may have been submitted which are not
covered by existing use cases.

7. Requirements Document

Requirements doc section leads reported that few comments have been
received, and none have been received which resulted in changes to

David Ezell - little discussion, no new issues.  Oisin Hurley reported on a
short discussion regarding extensibility and the "must understand" SOAP
attribute, but no additional requirements uncovered.  Mark Nottingham not
present.  Paul Cotton - no new comments.   Vidur Aparao - no new comments.

Some members expressed concern about the lack of public comment.  Hugo will
attempt to obtain web statistics on requirements doc.

David Ezell's modified preamble text to R305 was accepted.  David Ezell
also will submit minor editorial change to R309 concerning memory
constrained devices.

David Fallside noted that section 4 now contains only accepted
requirements, no draft requirements.

8. Usage scenarios

  John Ibbotson led a discussion on some of the usage scenarios which were
repackaged from the ebXML use cases submitted by Dick Brooks.

DS3 and DS4
  These DS's were discussed together.  John described the difference as
document  transmission vs.  RPC .   It was noted by several members that
these two usage scenarios might be different from the application
perspective, but not necessarily from the underlying XP perspective. Henrik
stated that the preamble to the the usage scenarios should make clear that
XP supports but does not define programming paradigms (such as RPC).

There was general agreement that DS3 and DS4 were useful, but needed
clarification.  John Ibbotson will rewrite by 1/18/2001.

  Discussion about whether the transport layer should be mentioned since
XP is transport independent and this might imply a solution particular to a
protocol.  Discussion about the difference between an acknowledgment of
receipt and a service response.  It was noted that without the mention of
transport, this DS might become part of DS3/4.  Glen Daniels will post
proposed clarification by end of day 1/18/2001.

  John Ibbotson described this usage scenario as an example of the
requirement for XP to move application payloads unchanged.  David Fallside
added that XP processors need not look inside the payload.  General
consensus was that wording could be simplified and implementation
suggestions (e.g., mime/multipart) should be omitted.    Glen Daniels will
send edits to dist-app.

  A third party service bureau operating as a proxy for one or more trading
partners (multihop/multinode). It was felt that this usage scenario was
unclear.  John Ibbotson will talk to Dick Brooks to expand upon the
wording.  David Ezell stated that this DS also suggested an implementation
(multihop/multinode)  and that such mention should be avoided.
  Long running conversational message exchanges.  John thought that this
did not impose requirement for globally unique id, only a conversation id
unique among trading partners.  General consensus that this usage scenario
would test the extensibility mechanisms of XP.  It was suggested by David
Fallside that this DS be fleshed out into more of a story.  John Ibbotson
will rewrite.

9. Any Other Business None.