- From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
- Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:11:15 -0700
- To: www-style@w3.org
Summary:
- Reviewed last call comments from PF WG
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0065.html
RESOLVED: that their first comment is out-of-scope for Selectors
fantasai to respond and answer their other questions.
- RESOLVED: Remove "Namespaces and down-level clients" (Chapter 11)
from Selectors
- Minor Selectors issues: remove :indeterminate tests from test
suite,
split References section into normative and informative subsections
- Plan to review state of Selectors implementation reports at TPAC:
if we have enough implementation reports, we can move to PR
directly.
- RESOLVED: Yves' comments on the Media Queries and CSS2.1 grammars
result in no change.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Oct/0095.html
- Briefly discussed targetting filters issue: further discussion
deferred
to TPAC and beyond.
====== Full minutes below ======
Present:
César Acebal
Tab Atkins
David Baron
Bert Bos
Elika Etemad
Sylvain Galineau
Daniel Glazman
Chris Lilley
Peter Linss
David Singer
Steve Zilles
<RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-CSS-irc
Selectors LC Issues
-------------------
<fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009OctDec/0035.html
<fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/selectors3/issues-lc-2009
<fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0065.html
* fantasai who is minuting?
ScribeNick: fantasai
<fantasai> dbaron: I don't think this should be done for ARIA
dbaron: I think ARIA should remain descriptive
[discussing :checked pseudo-class and ARIA]
<fantasai> My answer is that it's out-of-scope for Selectors
<fantasai> Whether a node is checked is defined by the document
language
<fantasai> whether that's defined by the HTML4 spec
<fantasai> or HTML5+DOM+SVG+ARIA+something-else
People seem to agree with this
Chris: We asked them a question about ::before and ::after, they
don't seem
to have responded.
fantasai: so who should respond?
Daniel: you
Bert: Make sure they know it is an official response
ACTION fantasai respond to Janina
<fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Apr/0006.html
fantasai: This was raised against implementors, actually, but filed
against
Selectors
fantasai: I think it's out-of-scope for Selectors, just wanted to
check that
that's acceptable
Tab: Seems fine to me
dbaron: I'm not sure how reasonable Anne's suggestion will be for
our UA
style sheet, but that's another story
Peter: No objections to treating as out-of-scope
----
Issue 1.
Summary: Remove suggestion to use \: to match namespaced XML in down-
level UAs
From: Krzysztof Maczynski
Comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Mar/0098.html
Response: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Oct/0239.html
Comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Oct/0251.html
----
fantasai: Anne suggested removing the entire section. I don't mind
Peter: I agree as well, and I original wrote the section
Peter: It was mainly an argument to Microsoft 10 years ago
explaining why
escaped colons was a bad way to handle it and that we needed a
Namespaces spec
ACTION fantasai remove Chapter 11
fantasai: That leaves 3 more issues, all on defining things defined in
2.1 but not here
fantasai: I don't have any concrete proposals here
Bert: Point to CSS2.1 and HTML and XML specs
fantasai: For ::first-line (issue 10), I can split out a lot of the
CSS-specific stuff, but I can't figure out a general way to
explain that we're referring to the first line of a block
<ChrisL> say the host language defines it
fantasai: I'll try to fix that and post my edits to www-style for
review
Chris: For Issue 6, refer to XML for the first 3 and to the DOM spec
for DOM
Chris: e.g. DOM3 Core
Chris: I have a question about :indeterminate
Chris: The spec has a note about :indeterminate, no normative text,
but we
have a test in the test suite
Chris: We should either define :indeterminate, or drop the test and
the
section
dbaron: Isn't this the result of agreeing to drop it in the past and
not
having changed the test suite to match?
fantasai: I don't know, I wasn't editing the spec at the time. Daniel?
Daniel: :indeterminate was not in the original Selectors spec, it was
added by Tantek
Chris: I think the tests mostly fail, so I suggest dropping those
tests
ACTION fantasai drop :indeterminate from tests
Chris: Why aren't references split into normative and informative?
fantasai has no clue
fantasai: I can make that split
fantasai: I'll have to reword the PCDATA/etc. to not require normative
references to HTML/XML
...
Steve: Is there a section that says what things are language-specific?
Chris quotes section 13 - Conformance
Peter: are all concerns answered?
Chris: So we want to move to CR, how long should it be in CR/ what are
status of implementations?
dbaron: Why can't we move to PR?
dbaron: I thought we had already met our CR exit criteria
fantasai: Do we have implementation reports?
dbaron: I thought we already had implementation reports
fantasai can't find them
fantasai: If we don't have implementation reports in the next 2 weeks
then I think we should move to CR
Bert has links to the implementation reports
<dbaron> http://www.w3.org/Style/Group/documents.html
<Bert> FF 1.5: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2007Jul/att-0046/implementreportFx15-20070725.html
<Bert> Opera 9.5 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2007Sep/att-0055/selectors-report.html
<Bert> Konq 3.5 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2007Sep/att-0054/implementreport-konqueror.html
<Bert> Amaya 9.55 http://www.w3.org/Style/Group/css3-src/css3-selectors/amaya-9.55-report.html
fantasai: FF1.5 is old.
<fantasai> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Selectors/current/
<fantasai>http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Selectors/current/implementreportTEMPLATE.html
<fantasai> which is linked from the test suite
<fantasai> I haven't dropped the :indeterminate tests yet
<fantasai> I'll do so soon
Chris: The implementation report template is awkward, you have to
record
the same test multiple places
We will discuss the transition at TPAC
Peter: We'll have implementation reports by then hopefully?
* fantasai is not taking responsibility for implementation reports
Chris is working on an Opera one
dbaron is working on Mozilla (?)
fantasai: Can we get one for WebKit?
<dbaron> fantasai, the current implementation report template has one
link to the 20090603 test suite, but the individual test
links
are all to the 20060307 test suit (note year!)
<dbaron> fantasai, I'm going to assume that's wrong and search-replace
the whole thing before running it
<dbaron> fantasai, I'm going to prepare a revised
implementreportTEMPLATE.html
Syntax and Grammar
------------------
Peter: Media Queries syntax from Yves
<plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Oct/0095.html
Bert: First issue was about using functional syntax for media queries,
not much chance for that
Bert: Second issue was to include the parentheses in the CSS2.1
Appendix G grammar
Bert: Because that's what he uses to parse
Bert: I'm not in favor. It's not wrong to add it, but it's not
necessary
fantasai: If Yves needs it for his implementation, then he can add it.
We don't need it for the spec, so we dont' need to edit
the spec
dbaron: The Appendix G grammar is only a description of what's in
CSS2.1,
it's not a guide for implementations
dbaron: It's sometimes useful where the spec fails to give a grammar
elsewhere, but we should really try to eliminate those
Bert describes what Media Queries does to the grammar
Bert: I'm happy to do nothing here
RESOLVED: Closed no change
@page and the CSSOM
-------------------
<plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Oct/0094.html
fantasai: I have no idea, but the @page rule with its nesting
structure
can't be changed at this point
fantasai: Also we have nesting for @media...
* fantasai notes that Anne is not on the call
Targetting Filters
------------------
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Oct/0071.html
Chris: I'm concerned that we would replace the explosion of properties
with the explosion of pseudo-elements
Tab: There was some discussion of this with Brad and roc
Tab: We don't want the combinatorial explosion
Tab: But other ways of naively doing it break the CSS model for values
Daniel: Microsoft introduced filters long long ago
Daniel: It would be cool to provide a replacement for this
proprietary feature
Chris: SVG filters is being split out into a separate file, to allow
other
specs to incorporate them
* sylvaing wishes he could use consistent CSS across HTML and SVG for
transitions, animations, transforms, filters....
...
Daniel: After transitions, animations, and transforms filters will
be the
next feature requested by web designers
Tab: So hash out more of this on the list? I don't think this is
something
we can resolve on the call
* fantasai agrees
Tab: It's a big issue. No matter what we do, it will be something
large
and complicated to work out
Peter: Any benefit to working F2F at TPAC?
Daniel: If we follow Chris's suggestion, it would be something to
discuss
with SVG
fantasai: SVG won't be meeting at TPAC
Chris: Some members will be present, but not the group
Chris: Erik would be the best person to talk to, since he's editor for
Filters spec
Deferred to TPAC and beyond
Meeting closed.
Received on Friday, 23 October 2009 20:11:51 UTC