Minutes, 17th November 2016 SVG WG telcon

https://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-svg-minutes.html


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

17 Nov 2016

   [2]Agenda

      [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2016Nov/0001.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          shepazu, nikos, stakagi, AmeliaBR, Tav

   Regrets
   Chair
          Nikos

   Scribe
          Nikos

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Publish SVG Animation CR
         2. [6]Make SVGUnitTypes a regular interface with only
            constants
         3. [7]Interaction of `x` attribute and `startOffset` in a
            textPath element
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     * [9]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <scribe> Scribe: Nikos

   <scribe> scribenick: nikos

Publish SVG Animation CR

   nikos: The suggestion was to publish CR of SVG Animations,
   since we have multiple implementations

   AmeliaBR: sounds reasonable. I've been advocating to publish a
   working draft at least. This is animation elements as defined
   in 1.1. There are multiple implementations. It's probably safe
   to go to CR.
   ... But going to CR means doing some editorial tidy up
   ... If we were going to WD, I would say go for it right away

   nikos: We may need to publish a WD before going to CR anyway

   shepazu: is it ready for publication?

   nikos: As a WD it is

   AmeliaBR: in the status page we could say we very quickly
   intend to move to CR because of exiting implementations?

   [10]https://svgwg.org/specs/animations/

     [10] https://svgwg.org/specs/animations/

   nikos: Wait that's level two
   ... think that's a mistake and level two has been put in place
   of level 1

   <AmeliaBR> [11]https://svgwg.org/specs/animation-elements/

     [11] https://svgwg.org/specs/animation-elements/

   <AmeliaBR> ^^ That is "Level 3". "Level 2" is what we're
   talking about.

   shepazu: Have we talked to Brian Birtles?

   nikos: I pinged him but waiting to hear back

   shepazu: First I'd like to hear from Brian, and talk to PLH
   about what's happening with the SVG WG

   nikos: I still think we should publish a WD
   ... I've got all the WD updates ready to publish - strokes,
   markers, etc

   AmeliaBR: only things we want to change with animation is:
   ... maybe getting rid of clock values which have no real
   implementations
   ... maybe deprecating stuff like animateMotion and
   animateTransform
   ... only new thing we've got in here is the discard element

   shepazu: Don't want to discourage conversation on this, but I
   do want to keep us focused on SVG 2
   ... think when we hear back from Brian what level of effort
   he's willing to put in the spec
   ... we are out of charter now, we're on an extended charter.
   New charter doesn't mention this spec. I'm afraid that showing
   a lack of focus is going to discourage browser makers from
   getting involved in the process.

   AmeliaBR: that's all fair, think we should get this as a WD and
   get the updated versions of the WDs done by the end of the year
   ... with the understanding that those projects will be shelved
   until SVG 2 is done

   nikos: We resolved at TPAC to publish other specs. I'm
   concerened that if the WG shuts up, that things are organised
   and not confusing as to what the status of specs is
   ... I want this to be very low effort

   AmeliaBR: I'm concerned about the level of work to publish CR.
   But WD needs to happen

   shepazu: I'll talk to PLH

Make SVGUnitTypes a regular interface with only constants

   [12]https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/291

     [12] https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/291

   nikos: Robert Longson raised this issue that in SVG 2
   SVGZoomAndPan is no interface so the constants that are
   available on it can't be accessed through SVGZoomandPan
   ... this is something browsers are updaing at the moment, so
   important to discuss
   ... foolip made some comments about interop and made a counter
   proposal
   ... in FF SVGZoomAndPan has alwayd been expoed, but thats not
   the case in all browwsers

   Also SVGUnitTypes is very similar

   scribe: but implementation is the opposite
   ... SVGUnitTypes has always been exposed, SVGZoomAndPan has
   never been exposed interoperably
   ... We have a PR to update SVGUnitTypes

   AmeliaBR: updating it to match Chrome
   ... which exposes one but not the other

   nikos: FF has agreed to the PR for SVGUnitTypes
   ... so proposed resolution is to expose SVGUnitTypes, but not
   have any other interfaces implement it

   AmeliaBR: The PR just focusing on SVGUnitTypes, by removing the
   implementations of the interface. It does cancel out some
   potential functionality. We're relying on the data provided by
   the contributors
   ... Usage data shows the constants not being used via the
   interfaces that implement SVGUnitTypes

   nikos: Conversely, data shows the constants are being used
   directly via the SVGUnitTypes interface
   ... MS and Google have said they want to have constants only on
   SVGUnitTypes, and FF has agreed that would be OK if it's what
   the other implementors want

   RESOLUTION: SVGUnitTypes will not be nointefaceobject. No other
   interfaces will implement SVGUnitTypes. Accept PR #295

   nikos: For SVGZoomAndPan, Google want to keep it as is. FF want
   to expose the SVGZoomAndPan interface directly
   ... at the moment SVGZoomAndPan is nointerfaceobject

   AmeliaBR: According to foolip, WebKit is the same

   nikos: My issue is that author expectation would be that the
   constants should be available via the SVGZoomAndPan interface
   ... But it's something that's not used and not that big a deal
   ... Robert has said he doesn't expect FF to change, Chrome
   implementation is different
   ... Let's see how discussion in the issue goes wrt
   SVGZoomAndPan and come back to that one later

Interaction of `x` attribute and `startOffset` in a textPath element

   [13]https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/265

     [13] https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/265

   Tav: My expectation is that x and startoffset would have an
   effect

   AmeliaBR: when you reset text, is it relative to startoffset,
   or to the start of the path?
   ... that's where we have differences

   nikos: Does the algorithm clarify that?

   AmeliaBR: Do we have a test case?

   <AmeliaBR> [14]http://jsfiddle.net/u5z02hpx/9/

     [14] http://jsfiddle.net/u5z02hpx/9/

   AmeliaBR: FF does 5 past 50%, Edge is the outlier, it does 5
   past the beginning.

   <AmeliaBR> [15]http://jsfiddle.net/u5z02hpx/12/

     [15] http://jsfiddle.net/u5z02hpx/12/

   nikos: FF is ignoring the x attribute on the text element

   <AmeliaBR> [16]http://jsfiddle.net/u5z02hpx/12/

     [16] http://jsfiddle.net/u5z02hpx/12/

   <AmeliaBR> [17]http://jsfiddle.net/u5z02hpx/13/

     [17] http://jsfiddle.net/u5z02hpx/13/

   AmeliaBR: This version is more clear

   nikos: So first question is whether x element on text is
   equivalent to x on tspan, that's where the algorithm says yes

   AmeliaBR: So the problem with FF is it's ignoring any positions
   set on the text element that should inherit down

   Tav: Looking at the 13 test case, if you put a letter after the
   first text element but before the textPath - that should be
   positioned by the x and y of the text element?
   ... how does that affect the starting x and y position along
   the textPath?

   AmeliaBR: it wouldn't for absolute positions because they would
   get reset
   ... the issue is the way the attributes work is they don't
   apply per element, they apply per character
   ... so they get inherited down and applied per char
   ... for chars inside textPath they are applied in the textPath
   coordinate system
   ... where the x axis is the path
   ... browsers seem to be consistent with that with dy
   ... if there is a letter outside textPath dy applies, otherwise
   it applies to what's in textPath

   Tav: If you have two dy values?
   ... My guess is that SVG 1.1 didn't intend on having text
   outside the textPath

   nikos: Yeah it's not very useful
   ... for a lot of pain
   ... Do people have a behaviour they would like?

   Tav: I would like x + startoffset

   AmeliaBR: The idea is that positioning attributes apply per
   char, whether or not they are on an ancestor or child of the
   textPath. The textPath coordinate system is measured relative
   to the startOffset point. x=0 is the defined startOffset.

   Tav: Think that makes the most sense

   nikos: And that seems to be roughly what the algorithm is
   saying - without having looked at it in fine detail

   RESOLUTION: positioning attributes apply per char, whether or
   not they are on an ancestor or child of the textPath. The
   textPath coordinate system is measured relative to the
   startOffset point. x=0 is the defined startOffset.

   <scribe> ACTION: Tav to update text prose with text/textPath
   offset resolution [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-svg-minutes.html#action01]

     [18] http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3864 - Update text prose with
   text/textpath offset resolution [on Tavmjong Bah - due
   2016-11-24].

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Tav to update text prose with text/textPath
   offset resolution [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-svg-minutes.html#action01]

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-svg-minutes.html#action01

Summary of Resolutions

    1. [20]SVGUnitTypes will not be nointefaceobject. No other
       interfaces will implement SVGUnitTypes. Accept PR #295
    2. [21]positioning attributes apply per char, whether or not
       they are on an ancestor or child of the textPath. The
       textPath coordinate system is measured relative to the
       startOffset point. x=0 is the defined startOffset.

   [End of minutes]

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Received on Friday, 18 November 2016 00:03:11 UTC