- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:12:58 +0000
- To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D037796B.11565%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes in HTML format can be found at: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-tt-minutes.html
We made one Resolution: RESOLUTION: We will not update SDP-US for TTML2.
The provisional period for this resolution under our Decision Policy will end on Thursday 25th September.
Minutes in text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
11 Sep 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
pal, nigel, jdsmith, courtney, tmichel
Regrets
glenn, andreas
Chair
nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This meeting
2. [5]Geneva F2F September
3. [6]Santa Clara F2F October (TPAC)
4. [7]Action items
5. [8]Issues
6. [9]IMSC 1 Issues
* [10]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 11 September 2014
<scribe> scribeNick: nigel
This meeting
Geneva F2F September
[11]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014
[11] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014
courtney: My goal is to have sample code that will map from
TTML to WebVTT and back the other way and also a paper that
... describes how to do the mapping both ways. I've made a lot
of progress - it won't be finished next week. I want to go
through the TTML attributes.
... Andreas has also been working on a mapping and we've been
coordinating our efforts. He's focussed on the EBU-TT-D profile
primarily. He also wants to present his work.
... I've identified some areas in both specs where there is no
equivalent, and it would be good to highlight those.
nigel: +1
... Is there a good version of WebVTT we should be referencing?
courtney: I'm using the most recent draft, which I think will
become 1.0.
<courtney> [12]http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/
[12] http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/
nigel: Great, we'll use that as our baseline dated on Tuesday.
... Without wishing to steal Frans's thunder, he tells me EBU
has offered to sponsor lunch on both days. Thanks EBU!
... I'll ask for it at 12:30.
... On day 2 we have a write-a-test hackathon - any thoughts on
the test format?
courtney: There's no test suite for WebVTT yet - my team is
working on that.
... The TTML test suite covers a lot of cases, so one thought I
had is to convert them all to WebVTT.
... We're also looking at it from the WebVTT spec perspective.
nigel: I understood that Wednesday's work will be for testing
the mappings rather than each spec.
... How much time do we need to set aside for IMSC 1 blocking
issues on Wednesday?
pal: I think there's only one real issue for discussion, which
is #overflow because there's a difference in understanding of
the impact.
... On the other ones, largely from the comments so far I don't
expect much discussion.
... On Change Proposal 28 that's something I'm not sure we need
any more. We may be able to remove that.
nigel: I'll re-examine CP28 and see if I can withdraw it.
pal: Without that I think that leaves Issue-339, and I don't
expect us to need more than 1 hour on that.
... I'll be happy to drive the IMSC 1 issues on Wednesday
morning.
nigel: We also have an agenda item on our TTWG process.
pal: Did we resolve that?
nigel: The consensus call had an end date of Wednesday. I
intend to raise it on Wednesday and conclude the topic with a
resolution. So far I've heard no negative comments.
Santa Clara F2F October (TPAC)
[13]http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2014
[13] http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2014
nigel: The structure of each day is a little different than
last year - WG meetings will run 0830-1100 and 1500-1800 with
lunch and ad hoc meetings from 1100-1500.
... Please let me know if you need a telco facility.
pal: I suggest planning for one, and not using it if we don't
need it.
tmichel: I suggest using it for specific slots rather than the
entire day.
... There's no difference in terms of cost but we need to
reserve the speaker phone.
nigel: I'll amend our wbs survey and reserve it.
... I expect the agenda to be TTML2 and the TTML<-->WebVTT
mapping.
pal: I suggest we take 30 minutes next week to discuss the CR
process and next steps and timeline for IMSC 1, based on
whether we use the 2005 or 2014 process.
nigel: good point.
Action items
action-325?
<trackbot> action-325 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Check if
respec has been updated for the 2014 w3c process -- due
2014-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/325
[14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/325
pal: Respec has been given an additional config option to
select process, so that's all done as far as I can tell.
close action-325
<trackbot> Closed action-325.
action-322?
<trackbot> action-322 -- Jerry Smith to Indicate preference for
updating sdp-us for ttml2 -- due 2014-08-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/322
[15] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/322
jdsmith: I think focusing on IMSC rather than updating SDP-US
is the better path. We're the only current implementor that I
know of and I don't think we see value in revving the spec or
the implementation.
RESOLUTION: We will not update SDP-US for TTML2.
close action-322
<trackbot> Closed action-322.
action-324?
<trackbot> action-324 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft a note
for imsc 1 progressivelydecodable to make concrete what authors
should take into account -- due 2014-08-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[16]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/324
[16] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/324
close action-324
<trackbot> Closed action-324.
Issues
issue-344?
<trackbot> issue-344 -- Add a clarification note expressing
intent behind unqualified attribute names -- raised
<trackbot>
[17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/344
[17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/344
reopen issue-344
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-344.
IMSC 1 Issues
issue-340?
<trackbot> issue-340 -- Make clear that the use of the
ttp:profile attribute is not required. -- pending review
<trackbot>
[18]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/340
[18] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/340
pal: I made two changes to implement this, both a note and a
change of wording from 'profile SHALL be associated' to
'profile is associated'.
<scribe> ACTION: frans Review resolution to Issue-340 and add
review comments to issue [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-326 - Review resolution to issue-340
and add review comments to issue [on Frans de Jong - due
2014-09-18].
issue-343?
<trackbot> issue-343 -- Processing of non-IMSC/TTML namespace
elements -- pending review
<trackbot>
[20]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/343
[20] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/343
<scribe> ACTION: frans Review resolution to Issue-343 and add
review comments to issue [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-tt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-327 - Review resolution to issue-343
and add review comments to issue [on Frans de Jong - due
2014-09-18].
pal: We have some issues making blanket statements about
foreign namespaces here - the rule is simpler: if it's not
forbidden then it's allowed.
... I couldn't find a way to word it relating to foreign
namespaces without getting really convoluted.
... Because there are some things from specified foreign
namespaces from SMPTE and EBU that are permitted.
... The next issues aren't captured yet in the tracker because
I wanted to make sure that the reflector didn't generate
further comments.
... Those are the three issues I emailed about yesterday:
issue-332, issue-342, issue-339.
issue-332?
<trackbot> issue-332 -- #cellResolution support -- open
<trackbot>
[22]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/332
[22] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/332
pal: I don't expect much further concern on this. The
background is simple: IMSC 1 forbids ttp:cellResolution. The
request was for any permitted value to be used.
... That only affects the maths for the c metric, and there's
no further impact. So the proposal is to lift the prohibition.
nigel: LGTM
pal: I plan to implement these changes if I don't hear any more
in the next few days.
issue-342?
<trackbot> issue-342 -- Add ebutts:multiRowAlign and
ebutts:linePadding attributes to the IMSC Text Profile -- open
<trackbot>
[23]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/342
[23] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/342
pal: These extensions are intended to allow timed text
presentation of a style that's consistent with European
practice, and perhaps elsewhere in the world.
... This does require adding a feature to the IMSC layout
engine, but not to the HRM. It looks like a processor can
ignore them and still yield reasonable results. My suggestion
is to add those features,
... even as a SHALL, and move forward with that. The only
caveat is these features may appear in TTML2.
nigel: This is analogous to the IMSC 1 situation with
forcedDisplay, in that TTML2 may do it differently and IMSC 2
would adopt the TTML2 way.
Issue-342: Make sure to include a note along the lines of the
forcedDisplay note that TTML2 and IMSC 2 may do it differently.
<trackbot> Notes added to Issue-342 Add ebutts:multiRowAlign
and ebutts:linePadding attributes to the IMSC Text Profile.
issue-339?
<trackbot> issue-339 -- Allow the use of #overflow -- open
<trackbot>
[24]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/339
[24] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/339
pal: F2F discussion may be needed here. IMSC 1 forbids
tts:overflow="visible" because that mutes the specified extent
of the region.
... This has profound implications for the HRM and because from
an authorial standpoint, to me and others, the author has no
idea how big the region will eventually be.
... I'm also trying to understand what the use cases are for
tts:overflow="visible" provides a benefit.
nigel: There's a tension here between region size and font
size, where rendered font sizes can not be known at authoring
time.
... Overflow allows for some safety there.
pal: That's what reference fonts are designed to address.
courtney: What about when implementations allow users to
override settings?
pal: In that case the implementation would need to know how to
expand the regions to compensate, if, say, the font size is
doubled.
... I'm happy to add a note to the spec to explain this.
nigel: At first a reflector response along those lines (i.e.
about reference fonts) would be helpful.
pal: Notwithstanding CP28 I think this concludes all the
outstanding notes on IMSC, so we have a realistic shot at
moving along on our proposed timeline - thank you all.
nigel: adjourns meeting - thanks all, and see you at 0900 at
the EBU in Geneva!
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: frans Review resolution to Issue-340 and add
review comments to issue [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: frans Review resolution to Issue-343 and add
review comments to issue [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-tt-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]
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Received on Thursday, 11 September 2014 15:13:33 UTC