{minutes} TTWG Meeting 27/3/2014

Minutes available at: http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-tt-minutes.html



   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

27 Mar 2014

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-tt-irc


Attendees

   Present
          glenn, nigel, pal, plh, jdsmith, Frans_EBU

   Regrets
          tmichel

   Chair
          nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Charter
         2. [5]IMSC approach proposal (PAL)
         3. [6]TPAC 2014
         4. [7]Action Items
         5. [8]Issues discussed over the last week
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 27 March 2014

   <glenn> getting coffee, brb

   <plh>
   [10]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2014Jan

   Mar/0069.html

     [10] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2014JanMar/0069.html


   <plh> [11]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/timed-text-charter.html


     [11] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/timed-text-charter.html


Charter

   <scribe> scribeNick: nigel

   plh: Process: after 45 days people who didn't rejoin the group
   will be automatically kicked out. The 45 days start today.
   ... members need to go back to their AC rep and tell them to
   rejoin - should allow simple one click reappointment

   nigel: Section 6 of the charter has a revised Decision Policy
   ... motivation is to clarify the situation especially as we
   will have two modes of working.

   plh: this allows for better asynchronous decision making and
   has been adopted in other groups too.
   ... that's why it says 'for 10 days decisions are provisional'.
   We expect the WebVTT part of the group to work more
   asynchronously.

   nigel: Thanks for doing the new charter!

   plh: I made one small edit to the milestones - the TTML2 CR
   milestone is pushed back by one month to take into account the
   August 'dead month'
   ... and the WebVTT milestones were pushed by 3 months.

   <plh> [12]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/ttml-diff.html


     [12] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/ttml-diff.html


   plh: this is the link to a diff from the AC review version of
   the charter.

IMSC approach proposal (PAL)

   pal: the plan so far for IMSC had been for IMSC to reference
   TTML2. We still have a long list of issues to resolve so it
   looks like it won't be ready when we intended it to be ready,
   which
   ... means that IMSC would be delayed, according to the current
   plan. THere are some users of IMSC that are really interested
   in it in its current form,
   ... and there are other users that are interested in it in a
   more extended form that would be dependent on TTML2.
   ... So I've been exploring a plan to deliver IMSC 1.0 based on
   TTML1 and follow up with IMSC 2.0 to go alongside TTML2.
   ... IMSC 1.0 could go today and there are implementations to
   demonstrate it. As TTML2 makes progress we'll work on IMSC 2.0
   and publish that when it's ready.
   ... I've not heard any fundamental obstacles. The first step in
   the plan is to see if there's any reason not to go ahead with
   it.
   ... Then start the process by publishing IMSC 1.0 as a FPWD and
   get started on it.

   nigel: notes that the charter milestones didn't push IMSC to
   match the end point of TTML2

   plh: agrees that he didn't
   ... I'm no longer allowed to touch the charter!

   nigel: Decision to deliver IMSC as two versions, v2.0 to
   roughly match TTML2 in milestones.

   pal: I'm assuming that we won't get surprises in comments but
   maybe we will. I can start working on tweaking the current ED
   to match the new direction
   ... and to get the ED ready for a FPWD.

   nigel: it would be good to have a summary document describing
   the publication approach for IMSC either to put on the wiki or
   publish as a note.

   Action pal to draft a summary document on the wiki and post a
   link to it on the reflector

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-277 - Draft a summary document on the
   wiki and post a link to it on the reflector [on Pierre-Anthony
   Lemieux - due 2014-04-03].

TPAC 2014

   [13]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34314/TPAC2014Planning/


     [13] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34314/TPAC2014Planning/


   nigel: if members could respond to this then that would be
   helpful.

   glenn: I think there should be a f2f and quite liked the Monday
   and Friday schedule, which was the least disruptive with
   respect to other groups.

   nigel: the poll closes on 1st May and we can make the decision
   in May.

   action-274?

   <trackbot> action-274 -- Nigel Megitt to Discuss with david
   singer possibilities for f2f before going ahead and adding ttwg
   to tpac agenda. -- due 2014-03-27 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/274


     [14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/274


   action-274: discussions have begun, still ongoing.

   <trackbot> Notes added to action-274 Discuss with david singer
   possibilities for f2f before going ahead and adding ttwg to
   tpac agenda..

Action Items

   action-276?

   <trackbot> action-276 -- Nigel Megitt to Request tracker
   default change to 'email' -- due 2014-03-27 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/276


     [15] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/276


   plh: I will find the request and ping them.

Issues discussed over the last week

   action-215?

   <trackbot> action-215 -- Glenn Adams to Specify special
   semantics for tts:{extent, origin} on content elements to map
   to new inline region feature -- due 2014-04-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [16]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/215


     [16] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/215


   issue-176?

   <trackbot> issue-176 -- Adding support for extent and origin
   attributes on block elements -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176


     [17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176


   <glenn>
   [18]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml2/spec/ttml2.h

   tml

     [18] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml2/spec/ttml2.html


   glenn: this is technical and substantive - you can view it at
   the currently published ED link
   ... the main changes are in the terminology section 2.2 to
   define 'implied inline region' - there's already an 'inline
   region'
   ... and in the section 7.1.4 and 7.1.5 on div and p, wording on
   extent and origin creating an inline region.
   ... there's a matching change in the styling definition of
   tts:extent and tts:origin in 8.2.8 and 8.2.15 I added div and p
   as elements that the style attribute applies to
   ... and added a paragraph on each of those sections.
   ... The follow ons are in section 9.3.2 which is empty at the
   moment and I need to fill it in and discuss Implied Inline
   Regions here.
   ... finally in Appendix D.1 I've added an editorial note to add
   features for these.
   ... I applied this to both div and p though the original
   proposal was for p only. Both are block level elements that can
   generate regions so they should
   ... both have the opportunity to use implied inline regions.

   nigel: what's the order of precedence if both a region
   reference and an extent and origin are specified?

   glenn: it's possible to have more than one region already on a
   content element so this would map the content to all the
   regions including the inline implied region.
   ... I need to deal with those semantics in the tbs section
   9.3.2. As a placeholder in the meantime I'll make an action.

   <glenn> action glenn to add EDNOTE to 9.3.2 with reminder to
   deal with case of having multiple inline regions possibly with
   additional reference to out-of-line region

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-278 - Add ednote to 9.3.2 with
   reminder to deal with case of having multiple inline regions
   possibly with additional reference to out-of-line region [on
   Glenn Adams - due 2014-04-03].

   glenn: I've added this to the change list document

   <glenn>
   [19]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml2/spec/ttml2-c

   hanges.html

     [19] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml2/spec/ttml2-changes.html


   nigel: you've also updated CP2 to a PENDING REVIEW state

   glenn: and I added a Resolution section.

   nigel: Jerry you own CP2 so please could you review?

   [20]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal002


     [20] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal002


   issue-285?

   <trackbot> issue-285 -- Align rendered rows within a region to
   each other, and the set to the region -- open

   <trackbot>
   [21]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/285


     [21] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/285


   [22]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal015#multiple_row

   _alignment_.28flex_box_in_CSS_mapping.29

     [22] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal015#multiple_row_alignment_.28flex_box_in_CSS_mapping.29


   nigel: I added use of the justify-content property and the
   mapping from multiRowAlign values

   Issue-286?

   <trackbot> Issue-286 -- Extend the background area behind
   rendered text to improve readability -- open

   <trackbot>
   [23]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/286


     [23] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/286


   [24]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal015#box-decorati

   on-break

     [24] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal015#box-decoration-break


   nigel: last week pierre asked: Are TTML 1 processors expected
   to ignore TTML 2 attributes that are in the same namespace at
   TTML 1? Is this the case in practice?

   glenn: what the spec says and what processors do and should do
   are separate questions.
   ... we'll probably need to put something in the conformance
   section of TTML2 on this subject and we may need to add some
   details to the abstract document type filtering mechanism
   ... that filters out foreign namespace. The normal behaviour
   should be to ignore anything not understood as long as it can
   still be parsed.
   ... A TTML1 doc with TTML2 features is not valid, strictly. But
   a TTML2 doc would be fine - then how does a TTML1 processor
   deal with that?
   ... We're not going to use a new namespace for TTML2 but extend
   the existing one so we need something in the document itself
   stating that it was
   ... authored with TTML2 features in mind. I believe there's a
   proposal to add a version attribute e.g. ttp:version to do just
   that. I haven't thought
   ... further than that.
   ... I will try to dig out the issue on this.
   ... this is Issue-276

   [25]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/276


     [25] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/276


   glenn: issue-203 is closed but also relevant. It added
   ttp:version to TTML2

   issue-302?

   <trackbot> issue-302 -- Should background of a span be height
   of text in line or computed lineHeight? -- raised

   <trackbot>
   [26]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/302


     [26] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/302


   glenn: I did some testing on this and verified that CSS
   behaviour results in backgrounds on spans that do not extend to
   the height of the line box
   ... that seemed to be consistent across browsers. What I don't
   recall is what I had implemented in the dfxp viewer because
   this came up then.
   ... It's not very well defined in CSS, what the right answer
   is. We do have the mapping to HTML/CSS issue. If we rely on CSS
   to implement
   ... the formatting we're going to work out how to live with
   this.
   ... notes that EBU-TT has already extended TTML to include
   padding. This isn't particularly easy to use.

   issue-303?

   <trackbot> issue-303 -- Permit HTML-style <a> elements to
   contain href links -- raised

   <trackbot>
   [27]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/303


     [27] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/303


   nigel: we don't have time to discuss this now!

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [28]scribe.perl version
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    $Date: 2014-03-27 15:04:17 $
     __________________________________________________________





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Received on Thursday, 27 March 2014 15:07:29 UTC