Re: ISSUE-28: MRC presentation

I'm proposing that we evaluate the consequences of our actions, and you're
saying there's no time for that – but there IS time to conduct a coloscopy
on a group that has at best a minor impact on this group's work.

Hence, my confusion…

From:  Jeffrey Chester <jeff@democraticmedia.org>
Date:  Friday, November 2, 2012 10:43 AM
To:  Alan Chapell <achapell@chapellassociates.com>
Cc:  "Dobbs, Brooks" <Brooks.Dobbs@kbmg.com>, Rigo Wenning <rigo@w3.org>,
"public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org>, Chris Mejia
<chris.mejia@iab.net>, Ed Felten <ed@felten.com>
Subject:  Re: ISSUE-28: MRC presentation

> Alan:    Suddenly there is a request to have MRC present.  That's new for this
> process and I want to make sure there's sufficient information on the MRC.
> This is different that what you are proposing.
> 
> 
> Jeffrey Chester
> Center for Digital Democracy
> 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550
> Washington, DC 20009
> www.democraticmedia.org <http://www.democraticmedia.org>
> www.digitalads.org <http://www.digitalads.org>
> 202-986-2220
> 
> On Nov 2, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Alan Chapell wrote:
> 
>> Jeff, I'm a bit confused.
>> 
>> I agree that we have experts in this group. But then why do we need outside
>> experts to evaluate MRC, but don't need them to evaluate the impact of DNT?
>> 
>> From:  Jeffrey Chester <jeff@democraticmedia.org>
>> Date:  Friday, November 2, 2012 10:37 AM
>> To:  Alan Chapell <achapell@chapellassociates.com>
>> Cc:  "Dobbs, Brooks" <Brooks.Dobbs@kbmg.com>, Rigo Wenning <rigo@w3.org>,
>> "public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org>, Chris Mejia
>> <chris.mejia@iab.net>, Ed Felten <ed@felten.com>
>> Subject:  Re: ISSUE-28: MRC presentation
>> 
>>> I don't support that, Alan.  We have experts in the group.  But if we are
>>> going to suddenly invite the MRC to present, we need balance.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jeffrey Chester
>>> Center for Digital Democracy
>>> 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550
>>> Washington, DC 20009
>>> www.democraticmedia.org <http://www.democraticmedia.org/>
>>> www.digitalads.org <http://www.digitalads.org/>
>>> 202-986-2220
>>> 
>>> On Nov 2, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Alan Chapell wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Jeff - 
>>>> 
>>>> An interesting point. I've been thinking about an analogous situation. It
>>>> is becoming increasingly apparent to me that there will significant
>>>> consequences to this group's final output. And at least to my knowledge,
>>>> there has been little if any analysis on the impact the DNT spec will have
>>>> on the myriad of stakeholders. It seems like inviting a group of experts to
>>>> analyze the impact of DNT would be useful in ensuring that our work has the
>>>> indented effect.
>>>> 
>>>> Would you support a proposal for such an analysis?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Alan
>>>> 
>>>> From:  Jeffrey Chester <jeff@democraticmedia.org>
>>>> Date:  Friday, November 2, 2012 9:32 AM
>>>> To:  "Dobbs, Brooks" <Brooks.Dobbs@kbmg.com>
>>>> Cc:  Rigo Wenning <rigo@w3.org>, "public-tracking@w3.org"
>>>> <public-tracking@w3.org>, Chris Mejia <chris.mejia@iab.net>, Ed Felten
>>>> <ed@felten.com>
>>>> Subject:  Re: ISSUE-28: MRC presentation
>>>> Resent-From:  <public-tracking@w3.org>
>>>> Resent-Date:  Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:33:33 +0000
>>>> 
>>>>> I strongly believe we need a balanced discussion, and that MRC needs to be
>>>>> analyzed by independent expert observers in relation to what we are doing.
>>>>> If we going to invite MRC in to speak, I strongly urge us to invite a
>>>>> scholar not connected with industry.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jeffrey Chester
>>>>> Center for Digital Democracy
>>>>> 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550
>>>>> Washington, DC 20009
>>>>> www.democraticmedia.org <http://www.democraticmedia.org/>
>>>>> www.digitalads.org <http://www.digitalads.org/>
>>>>> 202-986-2220
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 2, 2012, at 9:16 AM, Dobbs, Brooks wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jeff,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I hear you on wishing to discuss all of this, and I don't want to suggest
>>>>>> that it shouldn't get proper consideration, but in the name in keeping
>>>>>> issues bite size can we at least start the MRC discussion focused to
>>>>>> "traditional" online measurement?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'd like to start by just hearing from MRC what they need to validate
>>>>>> "normal" CPM impression counting. Once we get an understanding of this,
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> could then go into the need for cross platform or viewable impression
>>>>>> measurements or other issues that build off the base.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Again, not trying to limit any discussion here, just trying to order the
>>>>>> line of inquiry a little to make sure we walk before we run.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Brooks
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Brooks Dobbs, CIPP | Chief Privacy Officer | KBM Group | Part of the
>>>>>> Wunderman Network
>>>>>> (Tel) 678 580 2683 | (Mob) 678 492 1662 | kbmg.com <http://kbmg.com/>
>>>>>> brooks.dobbs@kbmg.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This email – including attachments – may contain confidential
>>>>>> information.
>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>  do not copy, distribute or act on it. Instead, notify the sender
>>>>>> immediately and delete the message.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 11/2/12 8:51 AM, "Jeffrey Chester" <jeff@democraticmedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have discussed the need to place what MRC is doing in the context of
>>>>>>> its current work on cross-platform targeting measurement, including the
>>>>>>> ad/media industry's 3MS initiative.  We need to invite independent
>>>>>>> outside experts who can help us discuss MRC.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As you may know, MRC is coordinating the 3MS (Making Measurement Make
>>>>>>> Sense) initiative "created by the ANA, the 4As and the IAB to tackle the
>>>>>>> big issues surrounding cross-media measurement in a digital age.  Those
>>>>>>> steps include the shift from an ad impression served model to one of
>>>>>>> “viewable impressions” – a standard in which at least 50% of an ad is
>>>>>>> viewable to a consumer for at least one second, the transition to an
>>>>>>> “e-GRP” for cross-platform measurement." [cite via Mediapost]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cross platform measurement tracking with analytics used to improve
>>>>>>> targeting in campaigns has a direct impact on our work, I believe.  I am
>>>>>>> happy to ask leading online ad scholars whether they wish to be on a
>>>>>>> call
>>>>>>> if we have a MRC discussion.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> More info on 3MS here: http://www.iab.net/mmms;
>>>>>>> http://www.measurementnow.net/benefits.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jeffrey Chester
>>>>>>> Center for Digital Democracy
>>>>>>> 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550
>>>>>>> Washington, DC 20009
>>>>>>> www.democraticmedia.org <http://www.democraticmedia.org/>
>>>>>>> www.digitalads.org <http://www.digitalads.org/>
>>>>>>> 202-986-2220
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Nov 1, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Rigo Wenning wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris, 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> here is the reminder that you wanted to try to find someone in MRC
>>>>>>> who could present to the Working Group.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think the best would be to get a set of questions to him/her. A
>>>>>>> presentation and Q&A session would be done during the TP WG call.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I encourage Ed and others to help with the questions. I remember the
>>>>>>> following: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 1/ How does opt-out work with MRC? Is data collection mandatory?
>>>>>>> 2/ Is MRC collecting identified or identifiable data?
>>>>>>> 3/ If 2/ is yes, are there plans to change that in the foreseeable
>>>>>>> future?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris, feel free to suggest changes if you find the questions too
>>>>>>> provocative (I find them exploratory as I don't know nothing about
>>>>>>> MRC). 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I talked to the chairs and Aleecia also said it is a good idea. So
>>>>>>> can you help us to make this happen?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rigo
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Friday 26 October 2012 16:05:06 Chris Mejia wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Rigo,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A quick note to let you know that I'm not ignoring this, just very
>>>>>>> busy with other business today (non-W3C-related), so I'll get
>>>>>>> back to you when my head is above water.  If you don't hear back
>>>>>>> from me before mid next week, please feel free to ping me again.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris Mejia | Digital Supply Chain Solutions | Ad Technology Group
>>>>>>> | Interactive Advertising Bureau - IAB | chris.mejia@iab.net |w
>>>>>>> 212-380-4711
>>>>>>> | c 347-949-8279 | Skype christopheramejia | AIM oskibearchris |
>>>>>>> | Twitter
>>>>>>> @oskibearchris | LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrismejia
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 10/26/12 5:13 AM, "Rigo Wenning" <rigo@w3.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> can you please indicate a person at MRC that we can invite for a
>>>>>>> presentation?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rigo
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thursday 25 October 2012 16:17:24 Chris Mejia wrote:
>>>>>>> Ed, respectfully, I had posted answer (before you asked your
>>>>>>> question)‹ I guess you must have missed it when conducting your
>>>>>>> research.  Let's follow-up offline and I'll be happy to point
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> to it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>