- From: David Ronca <dronca@netflix.com>
- Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:28:45 -0700
- To: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Cc: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAMjV-Fj7hbBYe0VFdX4=JT98bwx+SewUfetzFrqbczON+zgvHg@mail.gmail.com>
> That would be a legitimate question to Netflix, about how they selected the ... features needed in TTML2. I think it'd be great for Netflix to explain that, even in half a ... page. It would be extremely helpful going forward, and it might even be required to ... persuade people to vote for or implement the spec. ... I think Mike has pointed out in the past that having evidence for why a feature is ... required is a really good idea. I'm thinking additionally of IMSC 2. Nigel: Agreed - this is something we need to go back to Netflix and Glenn to answer. I can provide details on our feature requirements, most of which tie in to the list of essential Japanese subtitle features that we have discussed with the group. Are there specific questions that you need answered? On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk> wrote: > Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in > HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2017/08/10-tt-minutes.html > > Please note that our next call will be on Thursday 31st August. > > In text format: > > [1]W3C > > [1] http://www.w3.org/ > > Timed Text Working Group Teleconference > > 10 Aug 2017 > > See also: [2]IRC log > > [2] http://www.w3.org/2017/08/10-tt-irc > > Attendees > > Present > Nigel, Andreas, Pierre, Thierry > > Regrets > Glenn, Dae, Mike > > Chair > Nigel > > Scribe > nigel > > Contents > > * [3]Topics > 1. [4]This meeting > 2. [5]TTML2 Horizontal Review > 3. [6]IMSC > 4. [7]WebVTT review feedback > 5. [8]Meeting close > * [9]Summary of Action Items > * [10]Summary of Resolutions > __________________________________________________________ > > <scribe> scribe: nigel > > This meeting > > Nigel: I've scheduled 1 hour for today. On our agenda we have > TTML2 Horizontal Review, > ... IMSC (just tests I think), WebVTT. Anything other business, > or other topics to cover? > > group: [silence] > > Nigel: I won't be available for the next 2 weeks - anyone want > to Chair? > > Thierry: I'm out not next week but the following week. > ... (the 24th) > > Nigel: OK so let's cancel our meetings on 17th and 24th August. > > TTML2 Horizontal Review > > action-497? > > <trackbot> action-497 -- Nigel Megitt to Invite csswg to joint > meeting at tpac 2017, with list of topics. -- due 2017-06-15 -- > PENDINGREVIEW > > <trackbot> > [11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/497 > > [11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/497 > > Nigel: I've done this, and am awaiting any requests for > specific timeslots from CSSWG members. > > close action-497 > > <trackbot> Closed action-497. > > Nigel: When I met CSSWG remotely on Friday last week one of the > requests was that we > ... don't simply provide a set of attributes/features but > requirements with use cases so > ... that the CSS WG can understand better what we are trying to > achieve, in case they think > ... there is a better way in the context of CSS as a whole to > achieve the desired result. > ... I thought that was a reasonable request - they didn't want > to feel coerced into > ... implementing every feature exactly as we've done it. > > Pierre: Take a simple example - multiRowAlign. How would that > go? > ... There are lots of real world uses we can point to so that > should be straightforward. > > Nigel: Good question. I think we'd describe the desired > outcome, and our proposed > ... solution, but also accept that they may decide there's some > better way to achieve it. > > Pierre: Should we painstakingly catalogue everything and > present it as a batch, or develop > ... a working relationship or process starting with one or two > examples and see how that goes? > ... I started with multiRowAlign as a low risk one. > ... It was a question to you Nigel if you have thoughts of how > we should proceed? > > Nigel: My personal view is that there may even be cases where > members of the TTWG > ... are not clear about the use cases for all the new features > in TTML2, so it would be > ... valuable to us as well as other groups if we could document > example use cases for each > ... new feature, especially those that have no CSS equivalent. > So I'd be inclined to try to > ... complete the documentation for all those features. > > Pierre: I don't disagree. > > Nigel: That's a piece of work to do, on top of the existing CSS > Requirements wiki. I suspect > ... that without being able to provide that documentation we > will see limited responses > ... from CSS WG. > ... A lot of the time with TTML2 the explanation has been that > a semantic is present in the > ... LambdaCap format and that therefore there is content that > uses it and we need to > ... support those features. > > Pierre: That would be a legitimate question to Netflix, about > how they selected the > ... features needed in TTML2. I think it'd be great for Netflix > to explain that, even in half a > ... page. It would be extremely helpful going forward, and it > might even be required to > ... persuade people to vote for or implement the spec. > ... I think Mike has pointed out in the past that having > evidence for why a feature is > ... required is a really good idea. I'm thinking additionally > of IMSC 2. > > Nigel: Agreed - this is something we need to go back to Netflix > and Glenn to answer. > ... I also attended the Privacy IG who gave some useful > feedback. > ... I raised all the feedback I could recall/find in minutes as > TTML2 issues. > ... The CSS issue is not exactly the topic we just discussed, > but is about defining the semantics > ... of TTML2 style attributes based on CSS where possible or > equivalent. > ... I don't think I've heard or seen any other feedback - > Thierry have you heard anything? > > Thierry: No, I haven't seen anything else. We asked for > feedback from APA (Accessibility), > ... Web Platform, i18n, Media and Entertainment IG. > > Nigel: Clearly we have had good feedback from i18n, but nothing > from the others. > > Thierry: The review ends at end of September, so if there's > been nothing by end of August > ... I should ping them again. > > Nigel: +1 > > Pierre: Due to the timescales I think it will be difficult to > get good feedback from external > ... groups in the timescale required. My guess is that they > will begin looking at the spec > ... in September. They may simply provide their feedback > whenever they have it. > ... Our long review period overlaps with a long period of > vacation too. > > Nigel: Thierry are you suggesting reminding the internal W3C > groups only? > > Thierry: No I can do all of them. > > Pierre: There are industry meetings like IBC in September that > will take time away from > ... those groups for review, so maybe remind them in 1st or 2nd > week September and > ... accept that the feedback may be a bit later than the > deadline. > ... I'm thinking especially about TV and OTT industries. > > <scribe> ACTION: tmichel Send a reminder to groups for TTML2 > review by 8th September [recorded in > [12]http://www.w3.org/2017/08/10-tt-minutes.html#action01] > > [12] http://www.w3.org/2017/08/10-tt-minutes.html#action01 > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-503 - Send a reminder to groups for > ttml2 review by 8th september [on Thierry Michel - due > 2017-08-17]. > > IMSC > > Pierre: Thinking about processing the issues and the next steps > on IMSC, we said it could > ... not progress until 13th August, which is soon. I can > prepare an ED fixes for the issues, > ... but we still need the implementations to be reported. > > Nigel: I will chase internally - I'm not sure why I haven't > been able to provide our implementation > ... yet - could be due to holidays. > > Pierre: In any case I will address those two issues. > > Nigel: My assumption is that we will not publish an editorial > fix but will only move to PR > ... with the new features implemented. > > Pierre: That matches my assumption. > > Nigel: Worth noting for the minutes that you released the IMSC > tests Pierre, thank you! > > [13]IMSC Tests v1.0.0 > > [13] https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests/releases/tag/v1.0.0 > > action-500? > > <trackbot> action-500 -- Thierry Michel to Create a new repo > imsc-vnext-reqs -- due 2017-08-10 -- OPEN > > <trackbot> > [14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/500 > > [14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/500 > > Thierry: That's done. > > [15]IMSC vNext Reqs GitHub repo > > [15] https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs > > Nigel: Thank you for that. > > Action-500: Thierry created > [16]https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs > > [16] https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs > > <trackbot> Notes added to Action-500 Create a new repo > imsc-vnext-reqs. > > close action-500 > > <trackbot> Closed action-500. > > Nigel: I just created an issue on this to add it to github-bot, > but I can't assign it to myself. > ... What are the permissions on it? > > Thierry: I'll check... > > Nigel: It looks like it isn't associated with TTWG. > ... I think you need to add it into the Timed Text team: > > [17]https://github.com/orgs/w3c/teams/timed-text/repositories?u > tf8=%E2%9C%93&query= > > [17] https://github.com/orgs/w3c/teams/timed-text/repositories?utf8=✓&query= > > Thierry: OK yes, added and write permissions added to the TTWG > team. > > Nigel: Thanks, that's fixed, I've assigned it to myself. > ... The next step for that is for Pierre to create a skeleton > requirements document in > ... that repo. > > Pierre: Yes. > ... My initial goal is to have a first draft by month end. > > WebVTT review feedback > > Thierry: I had some actions assigned last week. > > Action-501? > > <trackbot> Action-501 -- Thierry Michel to Write to david and > the cg saying we should publish a new wd with a 6 week review > period. -- due 2017-08-10 -- OPEN > > <trackbot> > [18]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/501 > > [18] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/501 > > Thierry: I pinged this to David but I got no response because > he was on vacation so I > ... issued a new WD with a 6 week review period, closing on > September 22. That's done. > ... Silvia was okay with that. > > Action-501: Thierry did this and published a new WD on TR with > a 6 week review period. > > <trackbot> Notes added to Action-501 Write to david and the cg > saying we should publish a new wd with a 6 week review period.. > > close action-501 > > <trackbot> Closed action-501. > > Thierry: I also sent a number of emails to W3C groups for > Horizontal and Wide Review > ... which are copied on our public-tt reflector. > > Action-502? > > <trackbot> Action-502 -- Thierry Michel to Explain to david > that we need a more consistent disposition of comments for > webvtt. -- due 2017-08-10 -- OPEN > > <trackbot> > [19]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/502 > > [19] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/502 > > Thierry: This was about the first review in 2014. We discussed > last week that we should > ... have the same procedure as for IMSC and TTML in our group > so I've asked David to > ... add the links in the document to emails showing that the > commenters are satisfied with > ... the CG resolution. I did not get a response from David but > Silvia has begun to work on > ... it and she has provided a number of links. She has also > sent emails to the commenters > ... to collect this agreement. > > Nigel: I forgot to mention something relevant to this last > week, so apologies. I had said to > ... David that we can not go to external commenters to approve > a disposition until the > ... CG disposition has been approved by the WG. Otherwise if > the WG doesn't agree with > ... the CG then this would put the external commenter in a > difficult position. However at > ... this stage there has been reasonable notice to the WG of > the dispositions and no > ... further comments have been added so it may be reasonable to > take that as tacit approval > ... of the CG dispositions by the WG. > ... Can I check if anyone wants more time to review those CG > dispositions? > > group: [nobody requests additional time] > > Nigel: In that case we should allow it to proceed. > > Thierry: That was David's point too - the WG has had 1 month or > more so I consider that > ... the WG is satisfied. > ... It is not very common in the W3C for a CG and a WG to work > together - it makes things > ... a bit more difficult. > ... This is a good example - we are three parties instead of > two. > > Pierre: Setting aside the dynamics of the groups, from an IPR > perspective it's weird to have > ... all the technical work done elsewhere but the IPR > commitment made here. > > Nigel: Formally, the main contributors in the CG are members of > the WG. It is weird though. > > Pierre: Formally we need to track all the contributions to > check that the IPR is cleared. > ... Maybe it's not a problem here, but it is awkward. > > Nigel: I think David is across that. > ... There was a formal IPR release from the CG back in 2014 I > think, and since then David > ... has been tracking it I believe - the small number of > contributors may in fact all be members > ... of the WG right now, so this may be ok. > > Thierry: I think that closes my actions on this, so I may have > more news on David's return > ... from vacation. > > Action-502: Thierry sent a message to David and is expecting a > response. > > <trackbot> Notes added to Action-502 Explain to david that we > need a more consistent disposition of comments for webvtt.. > > Action-502: Thierry to turn the existing document into > something more homogeneous. > > <trackbot> Notes added to Action-502 Explain to david that we > need a more consistent disposition of comments for webvtt.. > > Meeting close > > Nigel: Those are all our agenda topics, so I'll adjourn the > meeting. Thanks everyone, > ... next meeting will be 31st August. [adjourns meeting] > > Summary of Action Items > > [NEW] ACTION: tmichel Send a reminder to groups for TTML2 > review by 8th September [recorded in > [20]http://www.w3.org/2017/08/10-tt-minutes.html#action01] > > [20] http://www.w3.org/2017/08/10-tt-minutes.html#action01 > > Summary of Resolutions > > [End of minutes] > __________________________________________________________ > > > Minutes formatted by David Booth's [21]scribe.perl version > 1.152 ([22]CVS log) > $Date: 2017/08/10 15:20:53 $ > > [21] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm > [22] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/ > > > > > ---------------------------- > > http://www.bbc.co.uk > This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal > views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. > If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. > Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in > reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. > Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. > Further communication will signify your consent to this. > > --------------------- >
Received on Monday, 14 August 2017 23:29:12 UTC