- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:56:05 +0200
- To: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAL58czq0c9LBwWE2HnBsCDj0i1MoEgBjNxWj_LabiwHrD9TELQ@mail.gmail.com>
Hi all,
minutes of today's call are at
http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html and below as text.
Best,
Felix
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
MLW-LT WG Call
28 Jun 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0159.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-irc
Attendees
Present
dave, felix, dom, maxime, moritz, jirka, shaun, tadej,
des, pedro
Regrets
olaf
Chair
felix
Scribe
tadej, fsasaki
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]agenda
2. [6]last weeks minutes
3. [7]action items
4. [8]General reminder - timeline in july
5. [9]General reminder: our plan until September
6. [10]Propose to close ISSUE-3
7. [11]Propose to close ISSUE-23
8. [12]ISSUE-1
9. [13]Propose to close "ISSUE-6: Process State"
10. [14]RDF serialization
11. [15]Terminology
* [16]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
agenda
<fsasaki>
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jun/0159.html
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0159.html
last weeks minutes
<fsasaki> [18]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-mlw-lt-minutes.html
[18] http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-mlw-lt-minutes.html
<fsasaki> no comments
action items
<fsasaki> action-135?
<trackbot> ACTION-135 -- Pedro Luis Díez Orzas to pedro to have
Giuseppe to flesh out specialRequirements -- due 2012-06-22 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[19]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/ac
tions/135
[19] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/135
<fsasaki> action-126?
<trackbot> ACTION-126 -- David Filip to david to come up with a
proposal for mtConfidence -- due 2012-07-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[20]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/ac
tions/126
[20] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/126
<fsasaki> action-126 due to next thursday
<trackbot> ACTION-126 David to come up with a proposal for
mtConfidence due date now to next thursday
<fsasaki> action-107?
<trackbot> ACTION-107 -- Shaun McCance to flesh out locale
proposal -- due 2012-07-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[21]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/ac
tions/107
[21] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/107
<fsasaki> action-107 next thursday
<fsasaki> close action-141
<trackbot> ACTION-141 Table in a staging wiki page to notify
current state of all data categories in terms of consensus and
impl comitments. closed
<fsasaki> action-81?
<trackbot> ACTION-81 -- David Lewis to consider consolidation
of author, revisionAgent and translationAgent -- due 2012-05-17
-- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[22]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/ac
tions/81
[22] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/81
<fsasaki> close action-81
<trackbot> ACTION-81 consider consolidation of author,
revisionAgent and translationAgent closed
General reminder - timeline in july
<fsasaki>
[23]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Imp
lementation_Commitments
[23] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments
fsasaki: By mid-July, we should decide on which data categories
we need.
General reminder: our plan until September
fsasaki: Implementation commitments to end of July
<fsasaki>
[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jun/0133.html
[24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0133.html
fsasaki: In september, we release an update draft version.
Everyone should have a description of a prototype.
daveL: One level is a running prototype, and another level is
passing the test suites. When do we need to do the latter?
<fsasaki> [25]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/mlw-lt-charter.html
[25] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/mlw-lt-charter.html
fsasaki: The W3C process doesn't require that until next year.
I would propose that people develop examples along with the
prototypes.
daveL: Does it make sense to develop some common prototype test
suites?
<fsasaki> [26]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/
[26] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/
daveL: That might kick-start the process with developing tests.
We might even start with ITS1.0 tests.
<fsasaki>
[27]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#usage-in-html5
[27] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#usage-in-html5
<fsasaki>
[28]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/examples/html5/
EX-translate-html5-global-1.html
[28] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/examples/html5/EX-translate-html5-global-1.html
fsasaki: These are HTML5 examples for ITS, we'll put our
examples in these directories.
... These examples are simultaneously in the test files.
<fsasaki> [29]http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/
[29] http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/
Maxime: Would the test output files have a repository?
<fsasaki>
[30]http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-
result.xml
[30] http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-result.xml
fsasaki: We need to develop new tests for new data category
features
... Here's an example of a test output
... However, we don't want to force implementors to reproduce
this artificial output literally.
... But it should be an illustrative example to help them.
Des: We're considering creating a default set of 'test
contents' to demonstrate the implementation, in a complete
round trip.
... it could serve as a standard set of contents that other
people can work with (and is realistic)
fsasaki: We developed different kinds of XLIFFs in various
round-trips and use cases.
... We might not end up with a single 'gold standard' of data,
but more a set of best practice example on what to do with
metadata.
... We can start discussing this in September.
... And concentrate on the best practices
daveL: Would Adobe be a good example of what we're doing?
Des: Yes, interop of the metadata is the main goal here.
... that would be a good way to demonstrate it, as long as it's
on the agenda.
... We might not have exact applicable content, but I can
participate in constructing some example content.
<fsasaki> ACTION: felix to think about a round tripping test
suite data package [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-145 - Think about a round tripping
test suite data package [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-07-05].
Propose to close ISSUE-3
<fsasaki>
[32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jun/0157.html
[32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0157.html
Propose to close ISSUE-23
<fsasaki> issue-23?
<trackbot> ISSUE-23 -- Re-draft section 7.6. "Removal,
Archiving and Re-integration of ITS mark-up" -- open
<trackbot>
[33]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/is
sues/23
[33] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/23
<fsasaki>
[34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jun/0042.html
[34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0042.html
fsasaki: No comments around ISSUE-3, let's close it and keep it
in mind when defining best practices
ISSUE-1
fsasaki: Any issues with closing ISSUE-23? .. No, closing it.
Propose to close "ISSUE-6: Process State"
fsasaki: We can close these by September when we finalize
these. Any comments against closing it now?
daveL: Getting data categories closed by September. It would be
beneficial to be able to demonstrate a concrete pipeline (Des)
<fsasaki> issue-16?
<trackbot> ISSUE-16 -- Parameter for rules -- open
<trackbot>
[35]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/is
sues/16
[35] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/16
<fsasaki> issue-24?
<trackbot> ISSUE-24 -- Proposal to change ITS term -- open
<trackbot>
[36]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/is
sues/24
[36] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/24
fsasaki: I propose closing ISSUE-16 and ISSUE-24? Any comments?
shaunm: (ISSUE-16) Global parameter default may encourage bad
practices, but we should discuss what would be a way to specify
them.
RDF serialization
fsasaki: Let's keep ISSUE-16 open until further discussion.
<fsasaki>
[37]https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1Y8yLjJpWTJFA-WTvRh
TDd6zl6jBOE9P5ckTfCZqUZIk
[37] https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1Y8yLjJpWTJFA-WTvRhTDd6zl6jBOE9P5ckTfCZqUZIk
<fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
maxime: there are two different ways to do the mapping to RDF
... first approach would be to compute each element and
attribute in XML world, then convert that into rdf
... option b) would be to transform ITS metadata in RDF, that
is ITS global rules in RDF
... the google docs goes into option b
... the dom fragments refer to one fragment in the element / or
attribute. Pretty similar to what is shown in the artifical
output at
[38]http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-
result.xml
... question is: do we want to do that in RDF or do via option
a?
... if there is no use case, we can have standard output in XML
like
[39]http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-
result.xml
[38] http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-result.xml
[39] http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-result.xml
and transform that into a RDF/XML document
scribe: so mapping would be a simple xslt stylesheet
tadej: right now the data that we expect in the rdf file will
be for disambiguation, ne terms etc.
... so things that don't appear in global rules
... we can defintetely work with option a) to do that
... so there is no use case in producing b)
... so we can keep the use case in mind - in dublin we
discussed a lot whether it is possible
... it is possible but takes a lot of effort to implement
... so for practical purposes the option a) is easier to do
maxime: writing two options in the draft, asking for comments
would be good
<DomJones> I have to leave unfortunately. Apologies. Dom
dave: going back to use cases ...
... obvious use case for option a is: extract connections
between content and external entities
... and publish it in NIF ontology
... so that would be a way to collect the data from an ITS
parser into RDF
... use case is to collect it as a language resource for other
NLP components
tadej: that is one of the things we proposed in Dublin
... I'm worried about having an end-to-end use case
... this is rather a bridge use case, not doing something with
that
dave: sure
... if anybody can see a use to cause an implementation, it is
a valid use case
... people in the localization industry won't jump into this
soon, but maybe in language resources area
tadej: agree
... sebastian wrote a long mail before the meeting describing
that
... even NIF has to grow more to accomodate these use cases
... so this particular part might be delayed
maxime: for option a we would need a standard output
felix: that would be part of the recommendation
<tadej> felix: Can someone update the google doc on ITS-RDF
integration to update it to standards-language?
<scribe> ACTION: maxime to write something for option b) of rdf
conversion [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-146 - Write something for option b)
of rdf conversion [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2012-07-05].
<scribe> ACTION: felix to write something for option a) of rdf
conversion, plus XSLT [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-147 - Write something for option a)
of rdf conversion, plus XSLT [on Felix Sasaki - due
2012-07-05].
Terminology
[42]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jun/0158.html
[42] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0158.html
tadej: above is the list of latest examples
... I defined "entityRel" attribute to determine the
relationship for the link
... a NE, term, WSD, or NE type
... only bigger mismatch is: instead of having entityRel for
each type we would define individual attributes
... that's the only way to keep this part consistent
... other issue that in ITS 1.0, the attributes only mention
"term"
<mlefranc> ACTION: maxime to use the standard output XML files
and the already written RDF vocabulary to draft a XML->RDF/XML
XSLT stylesheet [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-148 - Use the standard output XML
files and the already written RDF vocabulary to draft a
XML->RDF/XML XSLT stylesheet [on Maxime Lefrançois - due
2012-07-05].
tadej: i.e. term=yes, termInfo, termInfoRef
... so I'd propose different attributes
... at the end it is the question of markup - consistency vs.
backwards compatibility
... keeping strict compatibility will lead to more markup
... more specifc, the term data category is the same
... except that we allow people to specify terminology lexcion
... and there is looser support for identifiers
<Pedro> sorry, but my micro does not work :-(
pedro, you are now not muted anymore
<tadej> Pedro: ...
<tadej> Pedro: We wanted to discuss the event in Madrid.
<tadej> fsasaki: Can we continue with this topic next week?
sure
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: felix to think about a round tripping test suite
data package [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to write something for option a) of rdf
conversion, plus XSLT [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: maxime to use the standard output XML files and
the already written RDF vocabulary to draft a XML->RDF/XML XSLT
stylesheet [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: maxime to write something for option b) of rdf
conversion [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 28 June 2012 15:56:32 UTC