- From: Jonathan A Rees <rees@mumble.net>
- Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 15:29:50 +0000
- To: www-tag@w3.org
Draft minutes of the 1 December 2011 TAG teleconference are at
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/12/01-minutes.html
and in plain text below.
- Jonathan
-----------------------------------------------------------
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
01 Dec 2011
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Nov/0118.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
Attendees
Present
Masinter, Jonathan_Rees, DKA, Yves, JeniT, TimBL,
Ashok_Malhotra, plinss, Noah_Mendelsohn, ht
Regrets
Chair
Noah Mendelsohn
Scribe
Jonathan Rees
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Convene
2. [6]Administrative items
3. [7]Web Applications: Client-side state
4. [8]F2F Planning
5. [9]Polyglot last call
6. [10]Security
7. [11]Hyperlinks and copyright
8. [12]Pending review items
* [13]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 01 December 2011
<scribe> scribenick: jar
<scribe> scribe: Jonathan Rees
Convene
Note: incorrect regrets in agenda. Jonathan and Larry are both here
regrets for 8 Dec: JAR and Henry doing workshop, DKA unavailable
<Yves> Yves to scribe next week's meeting
<JeniT> DKA: not here next week, will be following week
regret: JAR for Dec 15 (at yet another workshop)
RESOLUTION: Minutes of 17 Nov are approved
[14]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/11/17-minutes
[14] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/11/17-minutes
<ht> Sorry I'm late, just dialing in
noah: Any word on nominees? Deadline was yesterday
Administrative items
ashok: No word yet.
(agenda review)
Web Applications: Client-side state
ashok: Have not heard back re comments
... Comments were fairly small. Bjoern Hoehrmann and Jonathan Rees
... JAR asked for definitions of acronyms, and 2 other complaints,
all addressed.
<NoahM> Proposed RESOLUTION: The TAG approves publication of
[15]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
130 as a TAG Finding
[15] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130
<DKA> +1
<Yves> +1
<JeniT> +1
<timbl_> +1
jar: +1
<Larry> +1
<NoahM> RESOLUTION: The TAG approves publication of
[16]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
130 as a TAG Finding
[16] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130
noah: Just some editorial stuff left
<NoahM> ACTION: Ashok, with help from Noah to publish
[17]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
130 as a TAG Finding [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[17] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130
[18] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Ashok,
<NoahM> ACTION: Ashok with help from Noah to publish
[19]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
130 as a TAG Finding [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[19] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130
[20] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
<trackbot> Created ACTION-634 - With help from Noah to publish
[21]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
130 as a TAG Finding [on Ashok Malhotra - due 2011-12-08].
[21] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130
<NoahM> ACTION-597?
<trackbot> ACTION-597 -- Ashok Malhotra to publish a final draft for
public review of the finding on Application State -- due 2011-12-01
-- OPEN
<trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/597
[22] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/597
<NoahM> close ACTION-597
<trackbot> ACTION-597 Publish a final draft for public review of the
finding on Application State closed
<NoahM> ACTION-598?
<trackbot> ACTION-598 -- Yves Lafon to publish as a note what had
been the FPWD (Raman's draft) on client side state -- due 2012-01-15
-- OPEN
<trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/598
[23] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/598
(discussion of closing out the rec track document first started by
Raman, which was mooted by the new finding)
noah: Yves please continue with 598 when he sees fit
... Yves please update the product page
F2F Planning
<NoahM> We'll go through list of TAG products:
[24]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/
[24] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/
noah: Fragid work - goal of a completed finding in December. Maybe
we changed the plan in Edinburgh
ht: I won't get to any work until Jan [or so]
noah: Note that HT says he believes producing a draft is something
he and Peter will do, but it won't be ready for Jan F2F
<NoahM> ACTION: Henry to update product page for Frag IDS and Mime
types, to include realistic goals and dates [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[25] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
<trackbot> Created ACTION-635 - Update product page for Frag IDS and
Mime types, to include realistic goals and dates [on Henry Thompson
- due 2011-12-08].
noah: So probably not for F2F discussion, but we'll see
<NoahM> Tentative conclusion, don't discuss this at F2F, unless
Henry or Peter proposes a particular issue
(continuing to go through list of product pages)
<NoahM> URI Definition Discovery ?
<NoahM> [26]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/defininguris.html
[26] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/defininguris.html
<NoahM> JAR: Still on track for calling for change proposals, etc.
by end of year. So we'll have something read
noah: JAR please update product page
<NoahM> MIME architecture for the Web ?
<NoahM> 31 December 2011: Final TAG Report on MIME architecture,
most likely in the form of a TAG Finding
larry: The MIME work has separated into 2 pieces. use of MIME as a
registry (extension param), feeding into action item related to
registries in general. And what should the MIME [process] actually
say
<NoahM> ACTION-531?
<trackbot> ACTION-531 -- Larry Masinter to draft document on
architectural good practice relating to registries -- due 2011-07-30
-- OPEN
<trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/531
[27] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/531
<NoahM> We should add this action to the product page
larry: action 531. That's a key part of how we do MIME. I'm closer
now to having a draft ready for the F2F.
noah: We're going for a finding - that's what we're talking about
yes?
... i.e. what you're working on is the doc that the product page
talks about?
larry: will have drafts of both of those.
<NoahM> We will have things to discuss in January.
noah: Larry, can you this week propose product page updates, that
would make the answers to my questions obvious?
<NoahM> ACTION: Larry to update product page for Mime and the Web
recorded in [28]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[28] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
<trackbot> Created ACTION-636 - Update product page for Mime and the
Web [on Larry Masinter - due 2011-12-08].
<NoahM> [29]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/#active
[29] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/#active
<NoahM> API Minimization ?
<NoahM> DKA: Hoping to do some work, and hand it off
noah: Dan, what will become of API minimization?
<NoahM> DKA: possibly newly elected members who replace me?
(discussion of TAG election and appointments)
<NoahM> DKA: A slot for minmization is likely a good thing
noah: Updating arch pages?
<NoahM> ACTION-609?
<trackbot> ACTION-609 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft initial cut at
[30]http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/identifiers -- due
2011-10-25 -- OPEN
[30] http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/identifiers
<trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/609
[31] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/609
<NoahM> ACTION-610?
<trackbot> ACTION-610 -- Jeni Tennison to draft initial cut at
[32]http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats -- due
2011-11-29 -- OPEN
[32] http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats
<trackbot> [33]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610
[33] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610
<NoahM> ACTION-611?
<trackbot> ACTION-611 -- Larry Masinter to draft initial cut at
[34]http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/protocols -- due 2011-11-15
-- OPEN
[34] http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/protocols
<trackbot> [35]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/611
[35] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/611
<JeniT> I will do something for January
<NoahM> Thank you!
<NoahM> NM: Question is, can we get something substantial to discuss
in January
larry: I'll get together with Dan, and exchange email with Jeni
<NoahM> NM: OK, so I'll plan to schedule a slot in January, form of
input TBD
<NoahM> No project page, but we do have:
[36]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/PrivacyFriendlyWeb.html
[36] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/PrivacyFriendlyWeb.html
NM: Privacy ?
dka: Privacy project is not scoped
<NoahM> Privacy is a maybe for F2F, Dan and Ashok to advise
<NoahM> Persistence of Identifiers ?
<NoahM> NM: Things to discuss
<NoahM> HT: Think so, at least report from workshop
ht: There will be a workshop report at least, which will include
proposals
NM: Client-side storage?
<NoahM> ACTION-632?
<trackbot> ACTION-632 -- Ashok Malhotra to frame issues around
client-side storage work Due 2011-12-06 -- due 2011-12-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [37]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/632
[37] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/632
<NoahM> ACTION-523
<NoahM> ACTION-523?
<trackbot> ACTION-523 -- Ashok Malhotra to (with help from Noah)
build good product page for client storage finding, identifying top
questions to be answered on client side storage -- due 2011-12-20 --
OPEN
<trackbot> [38]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/523
[38] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/523
ashok: I need to talk to Art Barstow about this (storage) - may
connect us with some help
... then decide how to go forward. Time at F2F for brief update
would be good
noah: This seems ready to gel. There was stuff to do but didn't have
time
ashok: I expect to have a couple of messages worked out
noah: Relationship between caching and local storage, what happens
to URIs, etc
... Microdata?
jeni: By then there will be a document from the TF. F2F would be
nice so we can go over it
<NoahM> HTML.next
<DKA> +1 to a html.next brainstorm
<plinss> +1
noah: I was hoping to get background done in Dec
<NoahM> ACTION: Noah to ask PLH to join us in Dec. to bring us up to
speed on HTML.next, and also join in F2F discussion [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[39] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
<Larry> we shouldn't discuss HTML.next without at least a briefing
of current discussions and ideas, so that the TAG isn't working
independently of the rest of the community on this topic.
yves: I am working on http ssl hybi, stuff like that. We should be
able to discuss that
<NoahM> ACTION-618?
[trackbot is AWOL]
<NoahM> With help from Larry, Noah, and Jeni to prepare analysis on
development around HTTP, like spdy, ssl use, websocket...
<NoahM> YL: Will have progress on ACTION-618 soon, should discuss at
F2F.
noah: The schedule is starting to look borderline too full
Polyglot last call
<NoahM> ACTION-560?
<NoahM> Henry Thompson - Review HTML polyglot last call Due
2011-06-06 - Due: 2011-11-30 - PENDING REVIEW
ht: There was a response to my email, saying HT didn't
timbl: Does this make the issue bigger?
[40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Nov/0120.html
[40] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Nov/0120.html
<NoahM> Reopening ACTION-560
ht: the spec says the prefixes aren't wrong/only says that prefixes
are allowed, but doesn't offer any support for them/
<NoahM> ACTION-560?
<trackbot> ACTION-560 -- Henry Thompson to review HTML polyglot last
call Due 2011-06-06 -- due 2011-12-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [41]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/560
[41] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/560
Security
<NoahM> ACTION-607?
<trackbot> ACTION-607 -- Larry Masinter to find an appropriate way
to make available
[42]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web
App Sec working group -- due 2011-09-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW
[42] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html
<NoahM> "I went to the first F2F of the Web Application Security
working group and asked them to accept the document as input, and to
consider maintaining a roadmap of web application security issues,
even those that they don't take up directly...I believe they agreed
to take it on."
larry: Haven't confirmed.
... I think we can move on
<Larry> www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/
<Larry> [43]http://www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/ lists it as an "Input
Document"
[43] http://www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/
larry: it's listed as an input document on their home page.
<NoahM> close ACTION-607
<NoahM> ACTION-607?
<trackbot> ACTION-607 -- Larry Masinter to find an appropriate way
to make available
[44]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web
App Sec working group -- due 2011-09-22 -- CLOSED
[44] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html
<trackbot> [45]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/607
[45] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/607
Hyperlinks and copyright
<NoahM> Proposal form Jeni for moving forward:
[46]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html
[46] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html
jeni: Dan and I met last week re next steps before the F2F.
... Asked our experts for feedback; we'll meet in a week or two to
go over it
... We'd like to do a long document as rec, supplemented with
shorter, more opinionated pieces that highlight particular issues
dka: This approach was in reaction to Rigo's TPAC comments
... but we really felt a doc with broad scope would be a good thing,
and a necessary prerequisite for focussed pieces
... Haven't had much luck getting concrete promises from our
experts...
noah: Is it just Rigo, or do others feel as he does?...
<NoahM> F2F discussion TBD
<Larry> ask for public feedback?
<Larry> ask AC members? if we're not getting feedback we need from a
community, don't we have other ways of getting that, than private
pleading?
noah: I'll look for a F2F proposal for this topic in a couple of
weeks
ashok: I'm very positive on the short pieces idea, have Jeni & Dan
thought about what those would be?
<JeniT>
[47]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html
[47] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html
<ht> +1 to working on public-facing messages at f2f
ashok: A goal like, to have 4 pithy messages, would be good
<NoahM> ACTION-541?
<trackbot> ACTION-541 -- Jeni Tennison to helped by DKA to produce a
first draft of terminology about (deep-)linking etc. -- due
2011-11-29 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [48]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/541
[48] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/541
<NoahM> ACTION-541 Due 2011-12-20
<trackbot> ACTION-541 Helped by DKA to produce a first draft of
terminology about (deep-)linking etc. due date now 2011-12-20
Pending review items
<NoahM> ACTION-576?
<trackbot> ACTION-576 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from Henry to
figure out impact of RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially
in 3023bis -- due 2011-10-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [49]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/576
[49] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/576
<NoahM> ACTION-509?
<trackbot> ACTION-509 -- Jonathan Rees to communicate with RDFa WG
regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due
2011-11-29 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [50]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509
[50] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509
<NoahM> NM: So, 509 and 576 are substantially the same?
<NoahM> JAR: We can close 576, but there's more to be done on 509
<NoahM> close ACTION-576
<trackbot> ACTION-576 With help from Henry to figure out impact of
RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially in 3023bis closed
jeni: Volunteer to take on 509.
<NoahM> Assigning ACTION-509 to Jeni and closing ACTION-576
<NoahM> close ACTION-576
<trackbot> ACTION-576 With help from Henry to figure out impact of
RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially in 3023bis closed
<NoahM> ACTION-509?
<trackbot> ACTION-509 -- Jeni Tennison to communicate with RDFa WG
regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due
2011-12-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [51]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509
[51] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509
<NoahM> ACTION-623?
<trackbot> ACTION-623 -- Larry Masinter to pull together plans for
IETF<-> TAG coordination at TPAC -- due 2011-11-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [52]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/623
[52] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/623
<NoahM> close ACTION-623
<trackbot> ACTION-623 Pull together plans for IETF<-> TAG
coordination at TPAC closed
<Larry> note there is now an IETF Application Area Directorate (of
which Henry and I are members). (The Directorate was the review
board)
<Larry>
[53]http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/ApplicationsAreaDi
rectorate
[53] http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/ApplicationsAreaDirectorate
<NoahM> ACTION: Yves to help Noah figure out best ways, if at all,
for TAG to participate in IETF paris Due: 2011-12-20 [recorded in
[54]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[54] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
<trackbot> Created ACTION-638 - Help Noah figure out best ways, if
at all, for TAG to participate in IETF paris Due: 2011-12-20 [on
Yves Lafon - due 2011-12-08].
<Larry>
[55]http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2012.html#IETF83
[55] http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2012.html#IETF83
ADJOURNED
<timbl_> Thank you everyone esp Noah for chairing
<NoahM> Thank you Tim!
<timbl_> The TAG election will probably run til Jan 9. Cf TAG F2F
Jan 4-6
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Ashok with help from Noah to publish
[56]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
130 as a TAG Finding [recorded in
[57]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: Ashok, with help from Noah to publish
[58]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
130 as a TAG Finding [recorded in
[59]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: Henry to update product page for Frag IDS and Mime
types, to include realistic goals and dates [recorded in
[60]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: Larry to update product page for Mime and the Web
recorded in [61]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: Noah to ask PLH to join us in Dec. to bring us up to
speed on HTML.next, and also join in F2F discussion [recorded in
[62]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to help Noah figure out best ways, if at all, for
TAG to participate in IETF paris Due: 2011-12-20 [recorded in
[63]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
[56] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130
[57] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
[58] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130
[59] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
[60] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
[61] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
[62] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
[63] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
[End of minutes]
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Received on Monday, 5 December 2011 15:30:21 UTC