- From: Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu>
- Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:56:08 -0400
- To: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
- Cc: Paolo Missier <Paolo.Missier@ncl.ac.uk>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
I guess what I'm arguing (and have been) is that the concept of Entity needs a corresponding class in the model. Anything that is described by a BOB is an Entitiy. Let's say that http://tw.rpi.edu/person/JamesMcCusker represents me on the semantic web, and a description of me might exist somewhere. Let's say it's an RDF document that sits out on the web, and is called http://tw.rpi.edu/instances/JamesMcCusker. That document refers to my URI, and can be said in some way to describe me. We should be able to say the following: http://tw.rpi.edu/instances/JamesMcCusker pil:describes http://tw.rpi.edu/person/JamesMcCusker. That would in turn imply the following: http://tw.rpi.edu/instances/JamesMcCusker a pil:BOB. http://tw.rpi.edu/person/JamesMcCusker a pil:Entitiy. We can now assert provenance based on that BOB, which is tied to a pil:Entity that represents me. Jim On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: > Jim, > Can you relate to the document. What is a pil:entity? This construct does not exist. > > What do you mean by Bob does not represent ...? The definition says it's a representation. > > I am confused. > > Luc > > Professor Luc Moreau > Electronics and Computer Science > University of Southampton > Southampton SO17 1BJ > United Kingdom > > On 21 Jul 2011, at 21:10, "Jim McCusker" <mccusj@rpi.edu> wrote: > >> I think we're still going around in circles. >> >> Entity: A thing in the world, can be represented by, for instance, a >> URI. That URI, in PIL, is a pil:Entity. >> >> BOB: A description of an entity constrained by context (including time >> and place). The description is not the entity, even within our >> information representation. A BOB must be able to refer to something. >> That BOB is a description of an entity, but does not REPRESENT the >> entity. >> >> Jim >> >> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Paolo Missier <Paolo.Missier@ncl.ac.uk> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I would advise against using the same terms with different typographical >>> convention :-) >>> >>> what the document perhaps needs to clarify more upfront is that there is a >>> "real world" and then a model of it, and the constructs of the language are >>> about the model. It does say that but perhaps not strongly enough. >>> - Characterized entity belongs in the world >>> - BOBs belong in the data model that is a representation of the world. >>> These two levels are never conflated. >>> >>> The good old "record linkage" community (data quality in databases) never >>> had any qualms about using "real-world entities", as in "reconciling >>> different records (BOBs?) that represent the same real-world entity". >>> In their world (pun intended :-)), a record is a very concrete data >>> structure that sits in a data store and you can display on a screen. >>> Now, we cannot use "record", we have ruled out "information(al) resource"... >>> but isn't that basically the territory? >>> Entity representation? >>> >>> -Paolo >>> >>> >>> On 7/21/11 8:33 PM, Luc Moreau wrote: >>> >>> Hi Khalid, >>> OK. This said we have over 20 occurrences of "characterized entity" in the >>> text. >>> >>> We can't simply use the "expansion" everywhere. Having some terminology is >>> desirable. >>> >>> Do you have a suggestion? >>> >>> We could also go for a typographic difference: >>> BOB -> CharacterizedEntity >>> and we keep 'characterized entity' elsewhere. >>> >>> Luc >>> >>> On 21/07/2011 20:27, Khalid Belhajjame wrote: >>> >>> Hi Luc, >>> >>> I guess I used the wrong term, "interchangeable". I guess that what I meant >>> is that "Characterized Entity" can be considered as a candidate to replace >>> "BOB". Of course, in that case, we will need to avoid the usage of the the >>> term "characterized entity" in the core of the definition. E.g., we can use >>> the following definition: >>> >>> A "Characterized Entity" is a description of the situation of an entity in >>> the world. >>> >>> Or something in these lines. >>> >>> Thanks, khalid >>> >>> On 21/07/2011 19:54, Luc Moreau wrote: >>> >>> Hi Khalid, >>> >>> As far as I know, they are *not* interchangeable. One is the language >>> construct, the other is "in the world". >>> >>> cf. definition: >>> >>> A BOB represents an identifiable >>> characterized entity. >>> >>> Should we go for "Characterized Entity", we need a typographic >>> convention to distinguish between >>> >>> the construct and the world-thing, otherwise, the reader will never >>> know whether this is language construct >>> >>> or not. >>> >>> >>> Luc >>> >>> On 21/07/2011 19:45, Khalid Belhajjame wrote: >>> >>> In the Provenance Model initial draft, the terms "Bob" and "characterized >>> entity" are used interchangeably. >>> Characterized entity seems then to be a candidate for replacing BOB. >>> >>> Thanks, khalid >>> >>> On 21/07/2011 19:30, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote: >>> >>> PROV-ISSUE-30 (name-for-bob): What name do we use for the BOB construct? >>> [Conceptual Model] >>> >>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/30 >>> >>> Raised by: Luc Moreau >>> On product: Conceptual Model >>> >>> How do we call the construct referred to as BOB. "BOB" was introduced as a >>> placeholder at F2F1. Before F2F1, we use to refer to it as thing. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ----------- ~oo~ -------------- >>> Paolo Missier - Paolo.Missier@newcastle.ac.uk, pmissier@acm.org >>> School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, UK >>> http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/Paolo.Missier >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jim >> -- >> Jim McCusker >> Programmer Analyst >> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics >> Yale School of Medicine >> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330 >> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu >> >> PhD Student >> Tetherless World Constellation >> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute >> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu >> http://tw.rpi.edu >> > > -- Jim -- Jim McCusker Programmer Analyst Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics Yale School of Medicine james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330 http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu PhD Student Tetherless World Constellation Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute mccusj@cs.rpi.edu http://tw.rpi.edu
Received on Thursday, 21 July 2011 20:57:07 UTC