Re: PROV-ISSUE-7 (define-derivation): Definition for Concept 'Derivation' [Provenance Terminology]

HI Luc,
I don't beieve that we should model it on specific domains. I would leave
the core
vocabulary as generic as possible, providing examples/guidelines on how to
extend it
on different domains (although that last activity looks more like a task for
the
Implementation and test cases task force).

Also, does the conceptual provenance tracking apply for the news example?
Would it be
like tracking the provenance of a rumour or an idea? I remember that in the
last telecon
I thought that it made sense to record it, but now I'm not that sure when I
look to real
use cases.

Best,
Daniel

2011/6/8 Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>

>
> Hi all,
>
> Having identified a concept of Invariant View or Perspective on Thing
> (IVPT), I'd like to go back
> to the meaning of Derivation.
>
> Several of you indicated that Derivation expresses that one IVPT was
> influenced by another IVPT.
>
> Paolo has asked what does it mean to 'influence'? It's a good question!
>
> Will we be able to define a notion of influence that applies for all
> things,
> whether physical, digital, conceptual, or other?  Should we go down the
> road of
> modelling influence in specific domains?
>
> Regards,
> Luc
>
>
>
>
> On 27/05/11 20:34, Stephan Zednik wrote:
>
>
>  On May 27, 2011, at 5:04 AM, Daniel Garijo wrote:
>
> Hi Luc, all
> In the example c2 is also a derivation of d2, and from my point of view,
> c2 could also be seen as a derivation from c1, since it is the chart taken
> as reference
> and corected in c2...
>
> As for your second question, I think that if we want to be able to cover
> provenance from resources, resources representations and resources state
> representation, a derivation must be able to refer to all of them.
>
>  What do you think?
>
>
>  From the existing example/scenario section on Derivation:
>
>  A derivation is a relation between two Resource State Representations
> that expresses that one RSR was influenced by the other RSR.
>
>  A agree that a derivation should be a relation between two like resource
> abstractions, and I agree with Daniel in that I am not sure we should limit
> it to RSR.  I believe one Resource could be derived from another Resource,
> and same with Resource State.  I also believe derivation covers a large
> spectrum of relationships - FRBR has covered some of this ground on the wide
> spectrum of different types of derivation so thankfully we do not have to
> start from scratch. Stories can be derived from other stores, editions of
> publications are derived from earlier editions, adaptions are derived works,
>  translations are derived expressions, etc.
>
>  I suggest an quick overview of FRBR's conclusions on derivations to
> provide direction.
>
>  I also agree with the suggestion that Version be a specialization /
> subtype of Derivation, as suggested in the Version section of the existing
> example/scenario.
>
>  --Stephan
>
> Best,
> Daniel
>
> 2011/5/27 Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Over the last week, we debated the notion of resource (PROV-ISSUE-1),
>> one of the concepts identified in the charter as core to a provenance
>> data model. It would be good to discuss the notion of derivation.
>>
>> Do we agree with the illustration of derivation [1]:
>> in the example, chart c1 is a derivation of data set d1.
>> Are there other interesting illustrations?
>>
>> Is derivation relating resources/resource representations/resource
>> representation states?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Luc
>>
>> [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/CharterConceptsIllustration
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/20/2011 08:07 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>
>>> PROV-ISSUE-7 (define-derivation): Definition for Concept 'Derivation'
>>> [Provenance Terminology]
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/7
>>>
>>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>> On product: Provenance Terminology
>>>
>>> The Provenance WG charter identifies the concept 'Derivation' as a core
>>> concept of the provenance interchange language to be standardized (see
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/01/prov-wg-charter).
>>>
>>> What term do we adopt for the concept 'Derivation'?
>>> How do we define the concept 'Derivation'?
>>> Where does concept 'Derivation' appear in ProvenanceExample?
>>> Which provenance query requires the concept 'Derivation'?
>>>
>>> Wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConceptDerivation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  --
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>
>>
>>
>
>