RE: Issue-19 questions remain - a proposal

Could you hack together a prototype of this idea, Henry? I vaguely get the gist, but it would be so much more useful if I could see your idea in action. And, you know, Demos R Us!

Can someone say how the pump.io or indieweb or any other community discusses stuff? That is, outside of email.  

I agree we seem to be guinea pigs, demonstrating a real-life social use case.  (I was going to say "rat hole" .. but that seemed to be mixing my rodents!)

  -- Ann


> -----Original Message-----
> From: henry.story@bblfish.net [mailto:henry.story@bblfish.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 3:41 PM
> To: Halpin Harry
> Cc: public-socialweb@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Issue-19 questions remain - a proposal
> 
> 
> > On 21 Apr 2015, at 23:22, Harry Halpin <hhalpin@w3.org> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> -- Is there a way for the wiki to send a notification when there is
> >> an update? Does that happen via the Watchlist? (Personally I find it
> >> hard to have to go look, randomly, for updates. That feels really
> >> unproductive.)
> >>
> >
> > We might be able to, although that would flood the mailing list. Thus,
> > it seems wiser to simply note major changes in the telecon.
> >
> >> -- Should we agree to use the "Discussion" pages?
> >
> > We could, or just see the note re IRC.
> >
> >>
> >> Or is IRC the place for conversation?  It's great to use Loqi to tell! someone
> (who's not present) something. It's great that there are daily logs.
> >
> > Of course, the larger problem may be some people simply may not want
> > to discuss with each other, due to time constraints or fundamental
> > disagreements. Again, that's not a WG issue per se nor solvable by a
> > resolution. We cannot, for example, make a resolution saying "Tantek,
> > you have to spend whatever time it takes to agree with bblfish even
> > though you two disagree about how specs should be built."
> >
> > That being said, I think the IG should volunteer to host a discussion
> > over Henry's stories.
> >
> > I'd like to stick the WG to technical topics that are clear and
> > delimited rather than working style differences that are open-ended.
> 
> I think Anne is asking: "how would this work even if people were willing to
> discuss things". Clearly if people don't want to listen to each other and
> discuss anything, but are just pushing an agenda then it is going to be difficult
> to get to anyway close to a consensus, and consensus building is the mission
> of the W3C.
> 
> I understand that there are very strong divergences of methods and
> undersanding of the space we are in. I have gone through all of them myself
> at various points in the last 10 years. In any case at the face to face it was
> agreed in fact that the group is not going to push for one standard because
> the divergences are too strong at the moment. But for the divergences to
> reduce then we need to have communication.
> 
> So let's assume we do want to communicate, and look at the issues we can
> deal with, namely buidling a process for communication. After all we are
> trying to build a social web. Now there are a number of tools that one needs
> to build to have a social web.
> 
> One needs a way to send everyone in a group a message to alert them of
> some project or idea, so that the whole group can focus its attention on a
> particular topic. What tools can one use for this?
> 
> a) mailing lists have until now been very good and served the W3C and IETF
> well, as they allow a message to be sent from one to many
> b) Wikis are not good unless the whole wiki has an RSS feed that people
> would be expected to add to their blog reader and poll regularly. This as you
> point out might be very noisy.
> c) IRC channels have a way to ping one person, but not to ping the whole
> group
>   ( the gitter chat for github has an @all, but that ends up working by sending
> every
>    member an e-mail )
> 
> So if e-mail is out by Tantek's decision, and neither wikis nor irc channels are
> the right tool for the job, then we have the following question:
> 
> Q1: How would one do one to many communication using the Social Web
> without relying on e-mail?
> 
> This is a question we MUST answer. It should be part of our user stories,
> since it is holding us up here. (But it is difficult to answer this if we don't have
> a channel to communicate about the various ideas on how to answer it,
> before we build it ).
> 
> If we are to be able to do this now, using tools at our disposal, we need to
> use existing standards.
> Lukily I think they are available, and have been for 10 years. We could do it
> like this:
> 
> One answer is that the Social Web WG could have a URI, lising each member
> of the group by their WebID, and that each WebID profile could describe that
> user including a foaf:weblog relation to their blog ( which has a relation to
> their RSS Feed where they can post their messages ).
> 
> Eg the social Web WG would have
> 
> <https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#grp> foaf:member
> <http://bblfish.net/people/henry/card#me>,
>                                                   <http://www.ibiblio.org/hhalpin/foaf.rdf#me>, ...
> 
> Then each of these WebID profiles would have a relation relating the user to
> a blog like this:
> 
> <http://bblfish.net/people/henry/card#me> foaf:weblog
> <http://bblfish.net/blog/> .
> 
> Then by a drag and drop operation on the Social Web foaf:Group into a feed
> reader, the feed reader could fetch all those blogs, find the linked rss feeds,
> and poll those regularly ( once a day at least ), and show the group member
> what others have read. Perhaps we'd have to agree that blogs related to
> social web WG would be tagged by a special tag, so that we could filter out
> people's cat pictures from the discussion relevant to the topic. The W3C
> could index all those posts in an archive.
> 
> To do this we would not need to invent anything new, but we could use
> existing standards such as:
> • Atom feeds
> • foaf profiles
> 
> We'd still perhaps need to agree on a link relation to state that one atom
> entry was a response to another one. Is this all we need to do?
> 
> 
> Henry
> 
> 
> Social Web Architect
> http://bblfish.net/

>

Received on Tuesday, 21 April 2015 22:54:13 UTC