- From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 00:40:02 +0200
- To: SVG WG <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Hello SVG,
Minutes in HTML
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html
and text below for tracker
SVG Working Group Teleconference
19 Apr 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0014.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Doug_Schepers, heycam, cabanier, [Microsoft], Cyril,
ChrisL, +61.2.980.5.aaaa, Tav, +61.2.980.5.aabb, krit,
nikos
Regrets
Chair
Cameron
Scribe
krit
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Progress update on SVG 2
2. [6]SVG 2 editing process
3. [7]test content guidelines
4. [8]F2Fs
5. [9]f2f
6. [10]review of path related cancas additions
* [11]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 19 April 2012
I try, but I can not call in. The US number doesn't work for me
heycam: I don't:(
<Cyril> it is working for me via Skype
<cabanier> for me too
<ChrisL> tav, speak for a moment
<heycam> Scribe: krit
Progress update on SVG 2
<heycam>
[12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Co
mmitments
[12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Commitments
heycam: Want to see the assignments on the wiki
... original plan was publish 1st WD at the end of the month
... will be sections added we assgined for
... + changes
Cyril: it is a chnage to the planning on the page
<Cyril>
[13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page
[13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page
Cyril: all placeholdershould be published by april
... we have to prepare for traveling and so on
heycam: we won't publish the WD in april
Cyril: what about july? too late?
heycam: it depends
... published draft even very intial would be good
... who did not so far, sign up till next week
... and add topics into spec
shepazu: is playback for audio element? script API?
heycam: let me take a look
<heycam>
[14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2069
[14] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2069
heycam: proposals
shepazu: markup properties or attrubutes?
... I m not an audio guy but in the audiio WD. I won't work on
it ut am happy to talk with the people there.
... we should coordinate with audio WG
heycam: move on
shepazu: one more question
... I put a question mark on one of the list items
... In case someone wants to work on it
... just contact on IRC
heycam: even with question marks, looks like you are assigned
shepazu: will we have a confilct
?
heycam: was off topic … confilcts on wiki page
<ChrisL> I was editing (and saving) a bunch during the call
heycam: next topic
SVG 2 editing process
heycam: I came up with a proposal
ChrisL: I think it is fine in general
... we can discuss if some one to objects
<heycam>
[15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Editing_Process
[15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Editing_Process
shepazu: It changes to resolved
heycam: people asgined to a feature go ahead to change the
section they are asigned for. Group will check it afterwards
ChrisL: is the list is complete? I don't find sths, like mask
(alpha, luminance)
... I'd like to assign for it
krit: Vhardy and ed o'connnor want to work on it on FX TF
ChrisL: right, but how does it get into SVG 2
<ChrisL> ok as long as someone is doing it. css wg seems to
want this urgently
<heycam>
[16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2401
[16] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2401
<Cyril>
[17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_In
put#Hit-testing_on_image_alpha
[17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Hit-testing_on_image_alpha
<ChrisL> cyril that is not the same
ChrisL: people say we want what svg does
... but it does more than we want
Cyril: can you explain
ChrisL: currently masking use the mask element
... mask is done by calculating luminance and that gets
multiplied with the alpha
... we may want just have alpha masking
... don't find resolutions for it
<ChrisL> ACTION: chris propose an update to masking for
luminance and alpha and pointing directly at images [recorded
in [18]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3256 - Propose an update to masking
for luminance and alpha and pointing directly at images [on
Chris Lilley - due 2012-04-26].
<scribe> ACTION: ChrisL will look at alpha masking and
luminance masking and talk to vhardy [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3257 - Will look at alpha masking and
luminance masking and talk to vhardy [on Chris Lilley - due
2012-04-26].
<Cyril>
[20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_In
put#Late_Proposed_Requirements
[20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Late_Proposed_Requirements
Cyril: we should take a look at the late propoesed
requirementss
<scribe> scribeNick: heycam
<ChrisL> scribenick: chrisl
Tav: can wee resolve on the requirement for masking
(yes)
resolution: we will allow masks to use either alpha or
luminance or both
ChrisL: and pointing direct to images?
tav: how would you specify if you want alpha or what
ChrisL: the property would do that
resolution: : svg will relax restriction on masks pointing to
mask element only
Cyril: did we resolve on the editing proposal
heycam: yas and we already resolved on it earlier apparently
ChrisL: prefer to soften the three week paer
tav: yes
heycam: ok
test content guidelines
heycam: brian was aksing for guidelines so they can succeed or
fail in the same way like all green rectangles
tav: like red and green but if they all look the same it is
confusing
... doesnt say what is being tested
... dont want a rect that covers the whole thing
heycam: if the tests are automated you won't need to look at
them
Tav: so there is no debugging help
Cyril: point is to automate error detection
heycam: also easier to make reference images. but with text or
paths there can be pixel differences. also easier to determine
pass or fail
Tav: but for transforms, css or attr version should be te same
so no pixel diffferences
heycam: ok
... some tests might be simple enough you want just a plain
rect.
Tav: ok for red gren fail/pass unless it is testing colors
shepazu: we need to test for red colours for example
Tav: we did that on the last test suite
shepazu: good to have tests that can be automatically detected
Cyril: yes bt we do not need green flood fill for that
Tav: subtract the ref images
shepazu: ok
heycam: for animation, brian suggests tests where the final
state is at one second so there is a snapshot to compare to the
ref
... script can sett the time to that point
ChrisL: for path animations you need multiple snapshots surely
heycam: we agreed to add snapshot time so we could use that to
annotate the test
Cyril: gpac has a way to generate an xml which logs the
snapshot time and you can have key events and when it replays,
the snapshots are generated at the marked times
... want it sampled every time there is a change. the author
knows the critical times
heycam: yes it is really a feature of the test itself
... avoid tests with many simultaneous animations
tav: examples of animation reftests?
heycam: not yet
Cyril: can send an example
<Tav>
[21]http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/CSS/Transforms/transforms-basic
-001.html
[21] http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/CSS/Transforms/transforms-basic-001.html
<scribe> ACTION: cyril to send examples of gpac animation
testing [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3258 - Send examples of gpac
animation testing [on Cyril Concolato - due 2012-04-26].
heycam: like that excample, tav
tav: no browser passes yet
heycam: ok so aiming for a single green or red rect is not
good, but if it is a simple pass/fail result then go for the
rect
ChrisL: sometimes you can loose track if all the tests look the
same
(general agreement)
heycam; does someone have an action to set up the test
structure
tav: i set it up like css. each contributor has a submit
directory
... once apprved they get moved
... the structure to run through the reftests is not done
heycam; wonder how easy t is to handle animation tests
tav: we talked with peter Linss who said it was possible. we
need an example
<heycam> ScribeNick: heycam
heycam: would be good to have these test guidelines on a wiki
page
Tav: we also have the test template that I worked on
… we resolved on having a link to a copyright license, waiting
on chris for that
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to create a test guideline page,
mentioning rectangles and linking to template file [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3259 - Create a test guideline page,
mentioning rectangles and linking to template file [on Cameron
McCormack - due 2012-04-26].
F2Fs
Tav: I will probably be going to SVG Open
heycam: I am not sure whether we want to meet at both SVG Open
and TPAC
<ChrisL> scribenick: ChrisL
ChrisL: (describes how to set up the css harness)
tav: can easily make a script that extracts that
<heycam> ACTION: Tav to work with Chris to get test suite
manifest scripts working [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3260 - Work with Chris to get test
suite manifest scripts working [on Tavmjong Bah - due
2012-04-26].
<scribe> ACTION: tav work with chris to create the test
manifest [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3261 - Work with chris to create the
test manifest [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2012-04-26].
<Tav>
[26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Require
ments
[26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Requirements
tav: chris we still lack the copyright link
ChrisL: oh yes had forgotten about that
f2f
heycam: lets not have 5 meetings
Cyril: is the seattle one necessary
shepazu; 5 is a lot
Cyril: how about a seattle-paris videoconferenced meeting?
Tav: its 9 hours difference. doable
Cyril: might have some videoconf. polycom thing.
cabanier: yes we have that too
Cyril: will not be able to make seattle
shepazu: maybe microsoft has facilities that would host this
jen: yeah we could look into that
25-27 july
cabanier: adone is hosting but no issue if microsoft hosts
Cyril; can tell you in a couple of weeks in paristech can host
ChrisL; a split paris-seattle would be good for me
ChrisL; would prefer to meet at svgopen rather thn tpac if we
have to choose
shepazu; who is going to tpac anyway
(4 or 5)
shepazu: so maybe a short mostly-liaison meeting at tpac
heycam: ok so tell tpac that we only need one day?
resolved: one day liaison meeting at tpac
resolved: split seattle/paris ftf in july if feasible
resolved: meet at svgopen/graphicalweb in zurich, main meet
rather than tpac
heycam: three meetings 2 months apart
ChrisL: but fits in well with svg2 editing push
review of path related cancas additions
<heycam>
[27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMa
r/0192.html
[27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0192.html
ChrisL: dmitry had a nice proposal with a path-like syntax for
animations
heycam: relevat for the improved dom work
... as for feedback to html, my comments in the mail are that
its is generally ok
... but how the object relates to our pathseglist which is
yucky
cabanier: idea is that people share knowledge between using
canvas and svg
heycam; pathseglist can't assign a new object, need to either
replace all items or set upa whole new path data stream
scribe: so for dom improvement, we should improve path and that
informs how we relate to the html canvas path api. need to lok
at our improvements before deciding that
... use of svgmatrix, functions for path to stroke or svg text
on path are all fine as is
shepazu: any other path based operations
heycam; can't get path data out. can only paint it. its opaque
shepazu: want an api that gives you vector effects like stuff
ChrisL: yes we said we would add that on vector effects
ChrisL; are the opaque path objects a problem here or not/ they
can be manipulated, just not inspected
heycam; might be a simplification or might be a way to avoid
exposing it to script
cabanier: gives more freedo on internal storage
... often you just want the result
shepazu: can you do it with text and thus capture the text
heycam: yes
... we wanted to capture text as outlines
shepazu: so are these in the svg2 requirements
heycam: dont think
resolution: we will have a vector effects api to get reesulting
paths (ned to discuss normalisation)
ChrisL: easier to implement if the generated paths are not
standardised, onkly the shape they make
heycam: danger of a small, deep rathole
... so for review comments
(general agreement with hecam's suggestions)
<scribe> chair: heycam
<heycam> ACTION: Cameron to mail HTML WG with path API comments
[recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3262 - Mail HTML WG with path API
comments [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-04-26].
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to create a test guideline page,
mentioning rectangles and linking to template file [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to mail HTML WG with path API comments
[recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: chris propose an update to masking for luminance
and alpha and pointing directly at images [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: ChrisL will look at alpha masking and luminance
masking and talk to vhardy [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: cyril to send examples of gpac animation testing
[recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Tav to work with Chris to get test suite manifest
scripts working [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: tav work with chris to create the test manifest
[recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action06]
[End of minutes]
_____________________
--
Chris Lilley Technical Director, Interaction Domain
W3C Graphics Activity Lead, Fonts Activity Lead
Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Member, CSS, WebFonts, SVG Working Groups
Received on Thursday, 19 April 2012 22:40:43 UTC