Re: [css3-speech] ISSUE-153 speak: none; usage incompatible with other values of speak

Oops, I apologize for this editorial mistake: I meant "display:none",  
not "visibility:hidden". The former effectively 'deactivates' an  
element (so to speak) whereas the latter is more similar to "voice- 
volume:0%". In other words, "visibility:hidden" preserves the visual  
space that the element would normally occupy if it was visible  
(resulting in an empty or transparent area that still takes part in  
the page layout), and conversely "voice-volume:0%" results in an audio  
silence lasting as long as the duration of non-silent TTS playback.  
Regards, Daniel

On 19 Jan 2011, at 14:54, Daniel Weck wrote:

> Hi Charles,
> personally I see no valid use-case for wanting to "hide" text in the  
> aural dimension, whilst making it visible on the graphical canvas.  
> More importantly, I'm pretty sure that this behavior violates  
> accessibility good practices.
>
> After having looked at several authoring scenarios, I remain  
> convinced that "speak:none" should  be removed from the current  
> draft, and that instead "visibility:hidden" should be used to  
> control element "deactivation". I believe the role of the "speak"  
> property should be limited to controlling the _style_ in which  
> elements get spoken out.
>
> Any other thoughts ?
> Regards, Daniel
>
> On 12 Jan 2011, at 21:43, Belov, Charles wrote:
>
>> fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net wrote on Wednesday, January 12, 2011  
>> 10:53
>> AM
>>> CSS-ISSUE-153
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/153
>>>
>>> The 'speak' property has two functions: one is to dual as the
>>> speech equivalent of 'visibility', the other is to specify how
>>> to speak the contents of an element.
>>>
>>> This creates unintentional problems with, e.g.
>>>
>>> acronym {
>>> speak: spell-out;
>>> }
>>>
>>> p.hide {
>>> speak: none;
>>> }
>>>
>>> <p>Thing to hide <acronym>WOAH</acronym> more stuff to hide</p>
>>>
>>> The WOAH is suddenly injected into the speech rendering due
>>> to the acronym rule, even though that is probably not what's  
>>> intended.
>>> These functions should be separated into two properties, or
>>> the 'none' value removed entirely.
>>>
>>
>> I do find the wording for none odd:
>>
>> Suppresses aural rendering so that the element requires no time to
>> render. Note, however, that descendants may override this value and  
>> will
>> be spoken. (To be sure to suppress rendering of an element and its
>> descendants, use the 'display' property
>>
>> What if you only want to suppress the sound and not the display
>> (although I'd want to see a use case that did not violate  
>> accessibility
>> standards)?
>>
>> In any case, I believe one could code:
>>
>> acronym {
>> speak: spell-out;
>> }
>>
>> p.hide {
>> speak: none !important;
>> }
>>
>> or perhaps
>>
>> acronym {
>> speak: spell-out;
>> }
>>
>> p.hide,
>> p.hide * {
>> speak: none;
>> }
>>
>> Whether that is sufficient to alleviate concerns is another issue.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Charles Belov
>> SFMTA Webmaster
>>
>>
>
> Daniel Weck
> daniel.weck@gmail.com
>
>
>

Daniel Weck
daniel.weck@gmail.com

Received on Wednesday, 19 January 2011 16:10:14 UTC