- From: Khalid Belhajjame <Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk>
- Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:14:56 +0100
- To: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
- CC: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Yes, to me that is a good alternative. khalid On 25/07/2011 11:10, Luc Moreau wrote: > Why not 'perspective' then? > > Luc > > On 07/25/2011 11:07 AM, Khalid Belhajjame wrote: >> On 25/07/2011 10:24, Luc Moreau wrote: >>> >>> The problem with Snapshot (like state, etc), is that it is the >>> snapshot of an entity. >>> We just don't want to distinguish an entity from its state, or an >>> entity from its snapshot. >> >> On the other hand, Snapshot has the advantage of conveying the fact >> that it is a description from a certain perspective (view). >> >> khalid >> >>> >>> Hence, using Entity avoids this problem. >>> >>> Luc >>> >>> On 07/25/2011 10:19 AM, Paul Groth wrote: >>>> I thought we were getting somewhere with snapshot..... >>>> >>>> I don't think ENTITY really captures the intuition behind a BOB. >>>> It's too general. >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> Luc Moreau wrote: >>>>> The word 'Entity' should also be considered for the construct BOB. >>>>> >>>>> If we do so, the text 'characterized entity' should be replaced by >>>>> something else in the draft specification. >>>>> Why not 'thing'? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So, the text could become: >>>>> >>>>> Section 4. >>>>> In the world (whether real or not), there are things, which can be >>>>> physical, digital, conceptual, or otherwise, and activities involving >>>>> things. >>>>> Words such as thing or activity should be understood with their >>>>> informal meaning. >>>>> This specification is concerned with characterized things, that >>>>> is, >>>>> things and their situation in the world, as perceived by the >>>>> asserter. >>>>> >>>>> Section 5.1 >>>>> An ENTITY represents an identifiable characterized thing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Luc >>>>> >>>>> On 07/24/2011 11:43 PM, Reza B'Far wrote: >>>>>> First, for the record Khalid was the person suggesting Snapshot :) >>>>>> >>>>>> The way I've seen snapshot used commercially, it's fairly consistent >>>>>> with the current definition of BOB. There is some murkiness on both >>>>>> sides (how "snapshot" is used commercially and I think we're still >>>>>> iterating here on the definition of BOB, but may be that's close >>>>>> to be >>>>>> finalized). However, I think they are close enough. What I liked >>>>>> about "Snapshot" is that its intuitive and is used in several >>>>>> domains >>>>>> that I know of (content management, legal, configuration systems, >>>>>> and >>>>>> I've also seen use-cases in microfilm production by old-school >>>>>> librarians). Also, I think "Snapshot" offers a huge advantage that >>>>>> it's neither explicitly linked to the entity nor its state. And I >>>>>> know the distinction between entity vs. entity's state and how >>>>>> that's >>>>>> articulated has been in a lot of the discussions. Using "Snapshot" >>>>>> sort of obsoletes that discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/24/11 12:57 PM, Stephan Zednik wrote: >>>>>>> I am not partial to snapshot, partially because of the extensive >>>>>>> functional usage of the term. I have always associated a snapshot >>>>>>> with a point in time, not a duration - but this may be an incorrect >>>>>>> association. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am open to discussing it, but my initial inclination was negative >>>>>>> towards it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Will we use the same definition as we have been using for BOB? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Stephan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 24, 2011, at 9:52 AM, "Reza >>>>>>> B'Far"<reza.bfar@oracle.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I second the term "Snapshot". This term also has functional usage >>>>>>>> in several commercial application categories used within >>>>>>>> roughly the >>>>>>>> same meaning. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/24/11 3:45 AM, Khalid Belhajjame wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Stephan, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Given the example you gave in your previous email, I think that >>>>>>>>> "EntitySpanshot" or "Snapshot" should be fine, given that it >>>>>>>>> reflect the fact that it is a description of an entity that holds >>>>>>>>> for some period of time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Do you agree? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> khalid >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2011 20:24, Stephan Zednik wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I do not feel that EntityInstance, EntityInstantiation, or >>>>>>>>>> InstantiatedEntity make sense for the book ownership >>>>>>>>>> scenario, or >>>>>>>>>> any scenario modeling the provenance of changes in >>>>>>>>>> characteristics >>>>>>>>>> of a physical object. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To reiterate the example since I haven't committed it to a wiki >>>>>>>>>> page yet. Book X is an entity that represents a real world >>>>>>>>>> object. It can be put on a shelf, loaned to friends, damaged, >>>>>>>>>> and/or destroyed. It has important characteristics (condition, >>>>>>>>>> ownership, location, etc) that may change over the life of the >>>>>>>>>> book. We may want to represent the provenance of the book as a >>>>>>>>>> chain of ownership. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> |<----------------------------------------------------- Book X >>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------->| >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> |<!------ Book X with owner A ---->|<----Book X with owner B >>>>>>>>>> ---->|<---- Book X with owner A --------->| >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If a book changes ownership, is the "book with changed >>>>>>>>>> ownership" >>>>>>>>>> a different EntityInstance? A different InstantiatedEntity? I >>>>>>>>>> don't think what we current call a BOB is an 'instance of' >>>>>>>>>> anything. I think of it as a description of an entity that >>>>>>>>>> holds >>>>>>>>>> for some time period (not necessarily given) for which >>>>>>>>>> contextually important mutable characteristics of the the entity >>>>>>>>>> are held to be known. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --Stephan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2011 5:29 AM, Curt Tilmes wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 07/22/2011 03:43 AM, Khalid Belhajjame wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> The term "Snapshot" was suggested some time ago, and it >>>>>>>>>>>> seems that >>>>>>>>>>>> several people did like it. >>>>>>>>>>>> We can also use the term "EntitySnapshot". >>>>>>>>>>> Following from snapshot: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> EntityInstance >>>>>>>>>>> EntityInstantiation >>>>>>>>>>> InstantiatedEntity >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Curt >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
Received on Monday, 25 July 2011 10:15:28 UTC