- From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
- Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 05:39:16 -0700
- To: www-style@w3.org
Summary:
- Discussed TPAC planning for the fall and added Test Suites for June F2F
- WG chairs encourages browsers to follow dbaron's lead and coordinate on
upcoming CSS feature releases
- RESOLVED: Add a note to Selectors saying that "Since pseudo-elements are
not simple selectors, they are not a valid argument to :not()."
- RESOLVED: Make a joint CSS SVG task force, Doug to set it up, specs of
common interest to send comments there, mailing list will be
*public read-write*
- RESOLVED: Publish updated Working Draft of CSS Template Layout Module
- Discussed proposals for CSS2.1 Issue 24; resolution needed before updated
CR publication. <http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-24>
- RESOLVED: In response to Yves' comment
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0256.html>
keep grammar and prose as is for 2.1, defer issue on tightening
up grammar to css3.
====== Full minutes below ======
Attendees:
Bert Bos
Arron Eicholz
Elika Etemad
Sylvain Galineau
Daniel Glazman
Melinda Grant
Håkon Wium Lie
Chris Lilley
Peter Linss
<RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/25-css-irc
* fantasai waves to Melinda
<fantasai> melinda, I made a number of edits to css3-page, but I haven't
checked in yet
<fantasai> melinda, don't have net access under linux from here, hopefully
will get a chance next week
<melinda> fantasai, k, cool.
<melinda> fantasai, I may have a few locally that we'll need to merge in...
<fantasai> fantasai doesn't have email access this week
* ChrisL if you scribe on irc I can send out the minutes
ScribeNick: fantasai
F2F Meeting in the Fall
-----------------------
glazou: deadline for 18th of March for TPAC was extended to April 2
glazou: The number of groups planning to meet is already above expectations
glazou: joint meeting with SVG Open?
chrisl: That was a fallback if the main meeting didn't go through
glazou: I guess we have to find another location for the f2f
* fantasai didn't understand that at all
glazou: We still have time to find another spot for the TPAC
alexmog: Why?
glazou: There's not enough room at TPAC, too many groups
alexmog: I thought we were going to go with SVG Open because the groups
we wanted to meet with weren't going to be at TPAC
* shepazu no way... too many groups?
chrisl: They downsized the venue
* shepazu oy vey!
Agenda Items
------------
glazou: I was too busy to read all the comments
glazou: Anybody have anything to add, please ask now
Bert: Is howcome's draft ready for publication or not?
Bert: GCPM or multicol?
howcome: They're not done yet, will be done next week
Bert: css3-namespaces?
fantasai: not done yet
<glazou> shepazu: can you be on the call ?
<glazou> for item 5 on agenda
glazou: anything else?
glazou: Sylvain?
<shepazu> sure
sylvain: We wanted to know if another CSS2.1 draft would be published soon
<glazou> thx
sylvain: Also wanted to know if anything about test suite will be on
the agenda for June F2F
sylvain: So we know whether to budget in Arron
glazou: June F2F agenda is open for suggestions
glazou: please suggest something more detailed than just "Test Suite"
glazou: Holiday season starts in June, so please plan your hotels early
Follow-up on @import
--------------------
glazou: Is this resolved? I saw Sylvain follow-up on this on the mailing list
sylvain: I believed we solved this in Tokyo
Implementation Status Reports
-----------------------------
glazou: Mozilla and Antenna House posted detailed implementation
reports to www-style
<ChrisL> these are for css 2.1, or for 3?
<melinda> Chris, both
glazou: I think David Baron has in mind some coordination among browsers
glazou: wrt implementation of CSS features for the Web
glazou: I encourage other browser vendors to do the same
glazou: If Opera, Microsoft, Apple can send this information to www-style
as well, that would be very cool
:not() and pseudo-elements
--------------------------
glazou: There's a clarification to make in the spec
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Mar/0193.html
glazou: Sylvain posted a clarification
glazou: I think David posted something else
<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Mar/0195.html
glazou: fantasai also said that she expects a future version of
Selectors to accept more in :not() than a simple selectors
glazou: Sylvain, which proposal do you prefer?
* fantasai hasn't seen these yet
glazou: I think David's proposal is more complete
sylvain: My proposal was just a clarification
glazou: Is everyone ok with David's proposal?
<glazou> #The negation pseudo-class, :not(X), is a functional notation
#taking a simple selector (excluding the negation pseudo-
<glazou> #class itself) as an argument. It represents an element that
#is not represented by the argument.
<glazou> #Note: Appending a pseudo-element to a simple selector results
#in a selector; selectors are not valid negation pseudo
<glazou> #class arguments.
Peter: The note doesn't clarify that a pseudo-element by itself is not
a simple selector
fantasai proposese addding a Note that says "Since pseudo-elements are
not simple selectors, they are not a valid argument to :not()"
RESOLVED: sylvain+fantasai's proposal accepted
CSS+SVG Task Force
------------------
Shepazu to summarize
Doug: This basically started as something regarding transforms and animations
Doug: David Singer thought it would be a good idea for general coordination
Doug: It would also involve animations, transitions, other little issues
that might pop up
Doug: I'm just suggesting we make a mailing list
Doug: So we don't have to keep cross-posting
glazou: Dean Jackson says he's ok with a mailing list, but not a sub-group
Doug: There isn't really any formaility to a task force
chrisl: It's just somewhere that we can post to
Melinda: My question, this has started off as being specific to
2d-3d transforms
Melinda: but then became more general
Melinda: If it was just about transforms, then I wouldn't want to subscribe
Melinda: If it's more general, maybe discussion of image-fit/image-scaling
Melinda: Then I need to subscribe
Melinda: Where's the efficiency benefit
ChrisL: It's avoiding cross-posting and diverging threads
glazou: My problem with the separate group
glazou: is that the wg memebers are supposed to keep track of everything
that's going on, even if it's not of direct concern to them
Doug: My concern wrt transforms, especially
Doug: we are both working on different proposals that may end up being
the same proposal
Doug: If people are sending feedback ...
Doug: The SVG WG has already gotten feedback about our trnasforms module
Doug: It's got sent to the public SVG mailing list
Doug: At what point are we going to be able to .. I'm concerned that emails
going to get sent to both lists
Doug: separately
Doug: And we're not going to coordinate
Doug: For SVG group, we just can't track everything that flows through
the www-style list
ChrisL: It's much more efficient for someone from the csswg to subscribe
to just the joint task force list, and not to all the svg lists
Doug: For those of us that are subscribed to both lists, it's a big
savings for the SVG group so we don't have to track everything
Doug: I'm sure you can have the joint mailing list shoved in a filter so
it comes to your attention with CSS
Doug: Also, if you're not interested in transforms you don't have to
monitor the list for the next few months
Melinda seems to be ok with this
glazou: Open mailing list, or just publicly-viewable
agreement on open
public read-write
* fantasai votes for www-svg-css-coord@ or something like that :)
discussion of what David thinks
Doug: For specifications like transforms and animations and things like that
Doug: That might be the default mailing list for sending comments
Doug: I can understand why csswg might not want that, but just a
suggestion. SVG group is ok with that
Melinda: I think if the CSSWG agrees to establish that new mailing
list, I don't see why we wouldn't want to direct comments there
Doug: We could have a wiki if we wanted, I dont' think it's necessary
discussion of names for the list
<sylvaing> svg-css-mafia
www-svg-css-coord
public-fx
RESOLVED: Make a joint CSS SVG task force, Doug to set it up, specs of
common interest to send comments there, will be *public read-write*
* fantasai isn't minuting the chatter
Publishing Template Layout module
---------------------------------
Bert: I think it's time for an update
Bert: I think I sent also the changes
Bert: I removed the part about tabbed layout. interesting, but not so
urgent... people aren't talking about it at least
Bert: Also updated the title
Bert: That's why I want to publish it
fantasai: I thought it was called Template Layout MOdule?
RESOLVED: publish updated WD of css3-layout
Wording for Issue 24
--------------------
<glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-24
<fantasai> It was accepted to fix the problem, but not exactly what
wording iirc
<glazou> hi mollydotcom
<mollydotcom> am I an hour off again?
<glazou> yes :)
fantasai: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Dec/0091.html
fantasai: There were two woriding proposals there
<glazou> mollydotcom: leave the norwegian TZ :)
fantasai: We discussed them and Bert wanted to write another one that
was clearer on how the two interact
glazou: deferred to next week
fantasai: to answer Sylvain's question, we need to solve this issue
before publishing CSS2.1 again, because we regressed the
text with the last resolution
+Cesar_Acebal
<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009JanMar/0212.html
Bert summarizes his email
<glazou> fantasai, I can't hear you
* Bert : fantasai is fading...
fantasai: It shouldn't be limited to selectors
fantasai: We want all statements to fall under the matching brackets rule
fantasai: including @statmeents
fantasai: I don't think the requirement to "match" brackets and quotes
is hard to understand, it's good enough for now I think
fantasai: but it needs to apply to statements and to declarations
ACTION: everyone come up with an opinion on Bert's email
Others
------
<fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009JanMar/0207.html
<fantasai> glazou, dbaron had good comments on those
<fantasai> see above
<ChrisL> it seems to be the usual way to remove things, set the attribute to ""
<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0256.html
dbaron's comment:
I think this could be tossed out as a "not all requirements are
expressed in the formal grammar". It's a nice-to-have (and perhaps
somewhat complicated to get right, so maybe not worth it), but I
don't think it's a bug in the spec.
glazou: another issue where the grammar is completed by the prose
glazou: we will always have these sort of things
glazou: not worth the time and complexity grammar to fix
peter: why not fix in css3
glazou: ok, we leave for css3.. but not 2.1
bert: which are you talking about now?
glazou: points bert at url
Bert: So far I haven't seen anything that I would like to change in the grammar
glazou: So Yves posted at least 2 issues here
glazou: Specifically about 2.1, do we want to change something?
RESOLVED: keep grammar and prose as is for 2.1, defer issue to css3
<glazou> ==> tracker
Meeting closed.
<RRSAgent> http://www.w3.org/2009/03/25-css-minutes.html
Received on Monday, 8 June 2009 18:58:09 UTC