- From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
- Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 23:12:55 +1100
- To: W3C SVG Public Working Group <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html
---
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
14 Oct 2008
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Doug_Schepers, aemmons, anthony, ed_, lmartine, NH,
+95249aaaa, ChrisL
Regrets
Chair
Andrew Emmons
Scribe
anthony
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Marathon Telephone Conferences
2. [5]Implementation Progress
3. [6]Last Call Comments
4. [7]ISSUE-2082
5. [8]ISSUE-2073
6. [9]ISSUE-2080
7. [10]ISSUE-2093
8. [11]ISSUE-2121
9. [12]ISSUE-2126
10. [13]ISSUE-2129
11. [14]ISSUE-2130
12. [15]ISSUE-2131
13. [16]ISSUE-2130
* [17]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 14 October 2008
<scribe> scribe: anthony
<ChrisL> just coming, finishing up discussion with r12a
<aemmons>
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/010
5.html
[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0105.html
<aemmons>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/010
4.html
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0104.html
Marathon Telephone Conferences
AE: There was a request for Marathon Telephone Conferences
DS: What about tomorrow night?
AG: I'll probably be a bit late
NH: I'll probably be late as well
DS: What about Thursday?
CL: Can't really make Thursday
DS: We can do multiple ones
CL: Yes why don't we do that
<ChrisL> Can make some of Thusday but has a lot of conflicts
CL: I can sign on for Wed
<ChrisL> I can sign on for weds all day
NH: Can make tomorrow afternoon
CL: 10 - 6 Europe time
DS: Why don't we schedule tomorrow
... and see how we go
... if not we can go again Thursday
AE: Someone will need to email with the details
CL: So it will be 4am to 1pm Eastern
DS: I doubt I'll be able to make it that early
<ChrisL> Its fine, you can join later i have to leave early thursday
<ChrisL> 10am to 18:00 europe
<ChrisL> 4 to 12 EST
<ChrisL> 7pm to 3am for Sydney :(
Implementation Progress
<ed_>
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/004
2.html
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0042.html
<shepazu>
[21]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestOttawa.
html
[21] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestOttawa.html
DS: Ed and I agreed it would be best to do the table
<ed_>
[22]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestTPAC-at
risk-verify.html
[22]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestTPAC-atrisk-verify.html
ED: I checked in a separate file with all the at risk test cases
... and that's the table I've been updating
... I'll probably be making more changes to the table
... but we need to discuss test first
... blue on the table means that someone was given an action to
implement
... the ones that are marked in Grey are not at risk anymore
<ChrisL> text-align-202-t.svg
CL: I can discuss text-align-202-t.svg
... I had an action to remove the direction attribute
... It was raised on SVG 1.1 it had to be set on every element
... so if you have Arabic you could set it an off you go
... I still do have to update the RelaxNG
ED: It's inherited so it's not a problem for us
<ChrisL> will add to svg and g elements as well as text elements
DS: As an author I do that sort of thing all the time
<ChrisL> so do I
DS: I'll typically put the font-family on a root knowing it only
applies to text elements and not shapes
<ChrisL> Abbra expects to have the unicode bidi done in time
<scribe> ACTION: Chris to Add direction to the RelaxNG [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2291 - Add direction to the RelaxNG [on
Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
<ChrisL> Opera just added it
<ChrisL> Inkscape passes
CL: Inkscape passes it
DS: Should talk to Motorola for some of these
ED: So far there hasn't been any updates to the table
... still haven't seen any
NH: Haven't done anything yet
<ed_>
[24]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFest
TPAC-atrisk-verify.html shows no updates yet
[24]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/results/TestFestTPAC-atrisk-verify.html
LM: I can send an email with the updates
ED: I have one test that I'd like to discuss
<ed_>
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/011
6.html
[25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html
LM: We'll pass linking-frag-203, styling-inherit-03, media-video-215
DS: That will bring it down to 15
ED: udom-svg-224
... and that test
... is expecting the wrong exception type
... the test seems to be expecting not supported error
... the spec seems to need an update and it is also using invalid
... I propose to change the spec
... invalid access error
... I'd be ok with having both in error and unsupported values
covered (if error still exists)
<ed_>
[26]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/svgudom.html#svg__Tr
aitAccess
[26] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/svgudom.html#svg__TraitAccess
ED: It's in the last sentence in that paragraph
CL: Sounds good to me
... we generally got away from the idea of in error
ED: I also have all the changes to the tests ready to commit
... it's mostly editorial
... no changes that affect the tests
LM: You'll be changing the test criteria
... ?
ED: [goes through changes]
CL: Sounds good to me
ED: There is a test there called udom-svg-220
... it's not at risk
... but I'm not sure about it
LM: Concern about the change with udom-svg-224
ED: I think it's low risk for you, I don't think you'll fail it
AE: I'd say the we should be careful of the changes
... we should probably go ahead with it
ED: I can do the changes and send the email out
... to give people a chance to test
AE: I'd encourage implementations to test on as soon as possible
NH: I have a question about media-audio-215
... it's about clamping audio level
<ed_> ACTION: ed to update udom-svg-220 and 224 and the spec as
indicated in
[27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/011
6.html [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2292 - Update udom-svg-220 and 224 and the
spec as indicated in
[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/011
6.html [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-21].
[29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html
NH: usually with clamping you clamp as late as possible
... the test expects to clamp 2 and multiple by 0.5
... which is 0.5
... but we multiple 2 by 0.5 then clamp it
CL: If the clamping is done as a last step then it shouldn't matter
the order the
... terms are multiplied
NH: The test expects you clamp at each step
CL: What does the spec say/
NH: Doesn't say
CL: It seems to me that there would be a loss of functionality
... so if you have a group around so you could only decrease
DS: If we change this would that make bitflash not pass?
NH: Maybe
... We should clarify the spec
AG: We've done this already twice
AE: Niklas can you send an email to clarify your thoughts
<ChrisL> it looks as if the spec isd not clear about early clamping
for audio
CL: I'm about to edit that one as agreed
... it currently has the direction property on it
... so I'm taking it out again
... having it there doesn't change anything
DS: Is that something Abbra is going to pass (text-align-202)?
... media-audio-206 they could work on
... and that would help
... udom-209/215
AE: Do we have sufficient coverage?
... for example constrained transforms may need some work
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to Add constrained transform tests to the
table [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2293 - Add constrained transform tests to
the table [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-21].
AE: I guess I could go through the raw spreadsheet, but that was the
only red flag holding us up
... we may have interoperability problems if we let constrained
transforms go
Last Call Comments
<aemmons> [31]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/raised
[31] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/raised
ISSUE-2082
ISSUE-2082
ISSUE-2082?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2082 -- attributeType auto -- RAISED
<trackbot> [32]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2082
[32] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2082
[33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Oct/0111.html
[33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Oct/0111.html
DS: Can move to the next one this is pretty involved
ISSUE-2073
ISSUE-2073?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2073 -- inverse and constrained transformations --
RAISED
<trackbot> [34]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2073
[34] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2073
AG: Got a response with better wording
DS: I think it's fine
ISSUE-2080
ISSUE-2080?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2080 -- Clarify focusable=auto -- RAISED
<trackbot> [35]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2080
[35] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2080
ED: I added the text to the spec
... just pending review form Ikivo
<shepazu> [36]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2093
[36] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2093
ISSUE-2093
ISSUE-2093?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2093 -- 16.2.9 by 'identity' -- RAISED
<trackbot> [37]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2093
[37] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2093
DS: It is a bit unclear what he is asking for
AG: I'm not sure
DS: I'm think he wants us to add what the identity value for types
CL: I think we did get around this
... by saying the starting 0 is the one that has no effect
... it's the value that doesn't do anything
... if you multiply an RGB colour by 0 you get the same result
... basically list all of them out
... we could use identity and see what he says
... he quotes the wording form the SMIL spec
... we could stick that exact wording in there
... and then quote the identity matrix
DS: We could stick in what he's got there
... which gives examples
RESOLUTION: Clarify by values of 0
<scribe> ACTION: Chris to Reply to Dr. Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2093
[recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2296 - Reply to Dr. Hoffmann regarding
ISSUE-2093 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
<shepazu> [39]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2121
[39] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2121
ISSUE-2121
DS: I seem to recall we decided to leave the reference to elliptical
arcs in
CL: In this case I don't see a problem with removing this
... because it doesn't add much
... we could add an example
... I think removing the parenthetical is ok
DS: Would we be removing too much information then?
... we could just comment it out and say use this for full
CL: I've got the spec open and I can do it now
DS: Do you want to respond him
<scribe> ACTION: Chris to Respond to Helder regarding the change on
ISSUE-2121 [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2297 - Respond to Helder regarding the
change on ISSUE-2121 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
<shepazu> [41]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2126
[41] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2126
ISSUE-2126
DS: Easy to discuss, but lengthy to accomplish
<scribe> ACTION: Emmons to Add lacuna wording for attribute
definitions regarding ISSUE-2126 [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2298 - Add lacuna wording for attribute
definitions regarding ISSUE-2126 [on Andrew Emmons - due
2008-10-21].
<ChrisL> close action-2297
<trackbot> ACTION-2297 Respond to Helder regarding the change on
ISSUE-2121 closed
<shepazu> [43]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2129
[43] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2129
ISSUE-2129
DS: I think it might be worth splitting it out to the coords and
viewBox chapter
... and have a small definition
... he explains what basically needs to be done
<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Make edits to split out bounding box
definition regarding ISSUE-2129 [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2299 - Make edits to split out bounding
box definition regarding ISSUE-2129 [on Anthony Grasso - due
2008-10-21].
<shepazu> [45]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2130
[45] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2130
ISSUE-2130
DS: Skip this one for now
<shepazu> [46]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2131
[46] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2131
ISSUE-2131
DS: Simple typo
<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Fix the typo in the spec regarding
ISSUE-2131 [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2300 - Fix the typo in the spec regarding
ISSUE-2131 [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-10-21].
ISSUE-2130
CL: The first one
... is to explain NC name
... the second is simple and obvious
... provide an example
... the first two are trivial
... it's not clear where we make the attribute table from
ED: Schema I think
DS: You mean the attribute table in the appendix?
CL: If you look at the master it's empty
ED: I know for a fact it pulls out things from the schema for
whether attributes&props are animatable
DS: There is an attribute table and an attribute table template
CL: I only see attribute table in published
DS: I see an attribute table in master
CL: Maybe created by a script?
<ed_>
[48]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/attributeTable
-template.html
[48]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/attributeTable-template.html
<shepazu>
[49]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/attributeTable.html
[49] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/attributeTable.html
<shepazu> <list-of-strings>
<shepazu> <ListOfString>
CL: Could've lost a change
ED: If you changed the schema then it would be correct
<ChrisL> list-of-string does not appear in tools/tables/makeTable.pl
<shepazu> [50]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2125
[50] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2125
<shepazu> <ListOfStrings>
<shepazu> <ListOfString>
DS: I found ListOfString
<ChrisL> In the perl I see String => 'string'
<ChrisL> wonder about adding Strings => 'list-ofstring'
<ChrisL> wonder about adding Strings => 'list-ofstrings'
<ed_>
[51]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/relaxng/dataty
pes.rng.diff?r1=1.18&r2=1.19&f=h
[51]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.2T/master/relaxng/datatypes.rng.diff?r1=1.18&r2=1.19&f=h
CL: I wounder if that change will be ok
... ok so it's in the RNG
DS: in the prose we call it list-of-strings
... Wondering if was adding a temporary version
<scribe> ACTION: Chris to Propose wording for ISSUE-2130 [recorded
in [52]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action09]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2301 - Propose wording for ISSUE-2130 [on
Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-21].
<ChrisL> so in the end, was it ListOfStrings with an S that we
wanted it to be?
<ed_> list-of-strings in the attributetable I believe, but
ListOfStrings in the schema?
<ChrisL> ok. schema currently has ListOfString
<ChrisL> I will change that (all occurences)
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Fix the typo in the spec regarding
ISSUE-2131 [recorded in
[53]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Make edits to split out bounding box
definition regarding ISSUE-2129 [recorded in
[54]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Chris to Add direction to the RelaxNG [recorded in
[55]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Chris to Propose wording for ISSUE-2130 [recorded in
[56]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: Chris to Reply to Dr. Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2093
[recorded in
[57]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Chris to Respond to Helder regarding the change on
ISSUE-2121 [recorded in
[58]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to update udom-svg-220 and 224 and the spec as
indicated in
[59]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/011
6.html [recorded in
[60]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Emmons to Add lacuna wording for attribute definitions
regarding ISSUE-2126 [recorded in
[61]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to Add constrained transform tests to the table
[recorded in
[62]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[59] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0116.html
[End of minutes]
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's [63]scribe.perl version 1.133
([64]CVS log)
$Date: 2008/10/14 12:11:10 $
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[63] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[64] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
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[65] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/updateing/updating/
Succeeded: s/certain ones/text elements and not shapes/
Succeeded: s/animation/whether attributes&props are animatable/
Succeeded: s/pros/prose/
Found Scribe: anthony
Inferring ScribeNick: anthony
Default Present: Doug_Schepers, aemmons, anthony, ed_, lmartine, NH, +9
5249aaaa, ChrisL
Present: Doug_Schepers aemmons anthony ed_ lmartine NH +95249aaaa Chris
L
Found Date: 14 Oct 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [66]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: anthony chris ed emmons erik
[66] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/14-svg-minutes.html
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Received on Tuesday, 14 October 2008 12:13:44 UTC