- From: Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:35:21 +0200
- To: public-bpwg-ct <public-bpwg-ct@w3.org>
Hi guys,
The minutes of today's call are available at:
http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html
... and pasted as text below.
We've cleaned the house...
Remaining actions and issues are to be addressed during next week's F2F.
Resolutions taken during the call:
- Use link to QA glossary for normative link
(http://www.w3.org/QA/glossary#N)
- leave it up to CT-proxy vendors to determine when a response with a
200 Status is a rejected response
- drop the editorial note at the end of 4.3 and leave the text as it is
in 4.3
... and a few actions to prepare next week's discussion.
Francois.
PS: Jo, you were credited an action: "to remove semi-persistent in
3.2.3", but I guess we'll have to resolve ISSUE-242 first.
10 Jun 2008
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008Jun/0020.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-irc
Attendees
Present
Francois, Heiko, rob, SeanP, jo
Regrets
Pontus, Bryan
Chair
francois
Scribe
rob
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]New draft
2. [6]Quick pass on ACTIONS
3. [7]Quick pass on Jo's points
4. [8]Quick pass on ISSUES
* [9]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
New draft
<francois> [10]draft version 1k
[10]
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/CT/editors-drafts/Guidelines/080606
francois: everybody please review and send comments!
... it's not the candidate for last call yet but it is getting close
Quick pass on ACTIONS
<francois> [11]opened actions
[11] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/products/12
<francois> ACTION-614?
<trackbot> ACTION-614 -- Jo Rabin to restart discussion on the TAG
finding (ISSUE-222) on the public mailing list -- due 2007-12-20 --
PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[12]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/614
[12] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/614
<francois> close ACTION-614
<trackbot> ACTION-614 Restart discussion on the TAG finding
(ISSUE-222) on the public mailing list closed
<francois> ACTION-632?
<trackbot> ACTION-632 -- Bryan Sullivan to propose some
recommendation on user-agent detection from a proxy and browser's
(format) point of view -- due 2008-02-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[13]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/632
[13] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/632
<francois> close ACTION-632
<trackbot> ACTION-632 Propose some recommendation on user-agent
detection from a proxy and browser's (format) point of view closed
<francois> ACTION-673?
<trackbot> ACTION-673 -- Aaron Kemp to see if he can get some
figures that scope the problem of bogus 200 responses -- due
2008-03-04 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[14]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/673
[14] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/673
francois: still needs resolution from me
<francois> ACTION: daoust to ping Aaron on scoping bogus 200
responses [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-768 - Ping Aaron on scoping bogus 200
responses [on François Daoust - due 2008-06-17].
<francois> ACTION-678?
<trackbot> ACTION-678 -- Sean Patterson to raise and issue on the
distinction between a CT proxy and (say) Opera Mini -- due
2008-03-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[16]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/678
[16] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/678
<francois> [17]Sean's thread
[17]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008Jun/0019.html
sean: replied by email yesterday
francois: leave the action open today so others can read the
response
<francois> ACTION-680?
<trackbot> ACTION-680 -- Robert Finean to provide a pseudo-code
example of form transformation for CT document. -- due 2008-03-10 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[18]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/680
[18] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/680
<francois> close ACTION-680
<trackbot> ACTION-680 Provide a pseudo-code example of form
transformation for CT document. closed
francois: the need for this illustration has passed
<francois> ACTION-703?
<trackbot> ACTION-703 -- Jo Rabin to draft a communication with the
TAG based on ISSUE-222 -- due 2008-03-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[19]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/703
[19] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/703
<francois> ACTION-706?
<trackbot> ACTION-706 -- Jo Rabin to reword 2.5.1 along the lines
proposed by Francois -- due 2008-03-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[20]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/706
[20] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/706
<francois> close ACTION-706
<trackbot> ACTION-706 Reword 2.5.1 along the lines proposed by
Francois closed
francois: jo's done the rewording
<francois> ACTION-709?
<trackbot> ACTION-709 -- François Daoust to write some examples for
2.5.3 -- due 2008-03-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[21]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/709
[21] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/709
<francois> close ACTION-709
<trackbot> ACTION-709 Write some examples for 2.5.3 closed
<francois> ACTION-710?
<trackbot> ACTION-710 -- François Daoust to test the Effect of HEAD
Requests on Various Servers -- due 2008-03-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[22]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/710
[22] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/710
francois: has done the analysis, not written the report
francois: conclusion is that a GET happens inside the server no
matter that the HTTP request is a HEAD
... at end of 3.2.1 still have the option for persistent or
semi-persistent options
<francois> ACTION-711?
<trackbot> ACTION-711 -- Soonho Lee to provide Feedback on Content
Transformation Document -- due 2008-03-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[23]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/711
[23] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/711
<francois> ACTION: daoust to ping Soonho on providing feedback
[recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-769 - Ping Soonho on providing feedback
[on François Daoust - due 2008-06-17].
<francois> ACTION-723?
<trackbot> ACTION-723 -- François Daoust to raise discussion on
session settings vs persistent settings for 2.5.1 and 2.5.3 -- due
2008-04-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[25]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/723
[25] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/723
<francois> ACTION: jo to remove "semi-persistent" in 3.2.3 [recorded
in [26]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-770 - Remove \"semi-persistent\" in 3.2.3
[on Jo Rabin - due 2008-06-17].
<francois> close ACTION-723
<trackbot> ACTION-723 Raise discussion on session settings vs
persistent settings for 2.5.1 and 2.5.3 closed
<francois> ACTION-724?
<trackbot> ACTION-724 -- Jo Rabin to raise discussion on list as to
clarification of 2.5.2 "In cases where user preferences contradict
server preferences, server preferences prevail, except where the
user specifically requires their preferences to over-rule those of
the server." -- due 2008-04-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[27]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/724
[27] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/724
<francois> ACTION-732?
<trackbot> ACTION-732 -- Jo Rabin to raise an issue on 4.4 of CT
draft 1j noting that HTTPS links should only be rewritten with HTTPS
links and not HTTP links -- due 2008-04-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[28]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/732
[28] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/732
<francois> ACTION-735?
<trackbot> ACTION-735 -- François Daoust to raise discussion on the
mailing-list and propose alternatives re linearization/zoom
capabilities and the relation with CT-proxy -- due 2008-04-22 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[29]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/735
[29] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/735
<francois> close ACTION-735
<trackbot> ACTION-735 Raise discussion on the mailing-list and
propose alternatives re linearization/zoom capabilities and the
relation with CT-proxy closed
<francois> ACTION-738?
<trackbot> ACTION-738 -- Jo Rabin to create text about transforming
proxies generating valid documents and propose it in next draft --
due 2008-04-29 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[30]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/738
[30] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/738
<hgerlach> +1
<francois> close ACTION-738
<trackbot> ACTION-738 Create text about transforming proxies
generating valid documents and propose it in next draft closed
<francois> ACTION-740?
<trackbot> ACTION-740 -- Jo Rabin to find a way of crafting FD's
text above and weaving it skillfully into the flow of the text --
due 2008-04-29 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[31]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/740
[31] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/740
<francois> close ACTION-740
<trackbot> ACTION-740 Find a way of crafting FD's text above and
weaving it skillfully into the flow of the text closed
<francois> ACTION-749?
<trackbot> ACTION-749 -- François Daoust to write to the XHR folks
and point out a possible need to identify that a requst comes from
script -- due 2008-05-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[32]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/749
[32] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/749
<francois> close ACTION-749
<trackbot> ACTION-749 Write to the XHR folks and point out a
possible need to identify that a requst comes from script closed
<francois> ACTION-752?
<trackbot> ACTION-752 -- Jo Rabin to propose text for the final part
of 4.1.2 taking into account resolutions and discussion on this and
the previous call -- due 2008-05-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[33]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/752
[33] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/752
<francois> close ACTION-752
<trackbot> ACTION-752 Propose text for the final part of 4.1.2
taking into account resolutions and discussion on this and the
previous call closed
<francois> ACTION-765?
<trackbot> ACTION-765 -- François Daoust to check on equivalence
between an HTTP header and a META element in HTML pages -- due
2008-06-03 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[34]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/765
[34] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/765
<francois> close ACTION-765
<trackbot> ACTION-765 Check on equivalence between an HTTP header
and a META element in HTML pages closed
<hgerlach> +1
<francois> ACTION-766?
<trackbot> ACTION-766 -- Jo Rabin to add note describing the
circumstances of choosing the X-Device prefix and explaining that
it's not necessarily the actual device headers and other weasel
words, yada yada -- due 2008-06-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[35]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/766
[35] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/766
francois: that ends the actions review
Quick pass on Jo's points
<francois> [36]Jo's points
[36]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008Jun/0015.html
<francois> [37]http://www.w3.org/QA/glossary#N
[37] http://www.w3.org/QA/glossary#N
<francois> Normative: Text in a specification which is prescriptive
or contains conformance requirements.
<francois>
[38]http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/#def-essenti
al-requirements
[38]
http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/#def-essential-requirements
<francois> 8.3. Definition of Normative, Optional and Informative
<francois> For purposes of this definition, the normative portions
of the Recommendation shall be deemed to include only architectural
and interoperability requirements. Optional features in the RFC 2119
[KEYWORDS] sense are considered normative unless they are
specifically identified as informative. Implementation examples or
any other material that merely illustrate the requirements of the
Recommendation are informative, rather than normative.
francois: 1. proposal is to link to the 1st of these definitions
seanP: yes, 1st definition is preferred
<francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Use link to QA glossary for
normative link ([39]http://www.w3.org/QA/glossary#N)
[39] http://www.w3.org/QA/glossary#N)
+1
<francois> +1
<SeanP> +1
RESOLUTION: Use link to QA glossary for normative link
([40]http://www.w3.org/QA/glossary#N)
[40] http://www.w3.org/QA/glossary#N)
francois: point D, heuristics for determining when a response with a
200 Status should be treated as a response with a 406 Status
SeanP: idea is to deal with legacy content
hgerlach: not as easy as it seems to reply with a HTTP 406 (handsets
often display it as an "error" that frightens users)
<francois> ACTION: hgerlach to send a proposal on using meta data to
alert CT-proxy that this is a rejected response even if it's a 200
[recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-771 - Send a proposal on using meta data
to alert CT-proxy that this is a rejected response even if it's a
200 [on Heiko Gerlach - due 2008-06-17].
<francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: leave it up to CT-proxy vendors to
determine when a response with a 200 Status is a rejected response
francois: want to leave it to CT-proxy vendors to decide how to deal
with 200 OK responses
... that appear as 200 OK and a body containing the error message
+1
<francois> +1
<hgerlach> +1
<SeanP> +1
RESOLUTION: leave it up to CT-proxy vendors to determine when a
response with a 200 Status is a rejected response
francois: point F, will address at F2F when Jo is present
... point G, text seems clear enough, support Jo in dropping this
note
SeanP: agree, note doesn't really apply any more, is confusing and
best dropped
<francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: drop the editorial note at the end
of 4.3
<francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: drop the editorial note at the end
of 4.3 and leave the text as it is
<francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: drop the editorial note at the end
of 4.3 and leave the text as it is in 4.3
<francois> +1
+1
<SeanP> +1
RESOLUTION: drop the editorial note at the end of 4.3 and leave the
text as it is in 4.3
francois: point H, wait for Jo and the F2F
... point I, we removed the guidelines on advertising ability to
transform from CT-proxy in request to origin server
... so suggest renaming section
... and remove 1st bullet list in section
... Please send comments and we'll address at F2F next week
<francois> [42]ISSUE-257 on 4.1.2
[42] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/257
<hgerlach> thanks
Quick pass on ISSUES
<francois> [43]Opened ISSUES
[43] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/products/12
<francois> ISSUE-227?
<trackbot> ISSUE-227 -- How Useful will the CT Guidelines Doc be,
without extensions to HTTP? -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[44]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/227
[44] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/227
<francois> close ISSUE-227
francois: I think we've proved it is useful without HTTP extensions
<francois> ISSUE-238?
<trackbot> ISSUE-238 -- Use of Powder to "label" CT proxies and
Server Preferences for CT -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[45]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/238
[45] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/238
francois: don't want to *depend* on powder, but can say it's useful
in future work
<jo> rrsagent draft minutes
jo, i couldn't understand that
<francois> Close ISSUE-238
<francois> ISSUE-241?
<trackbot> ISSUE-241 -- Tokenization of URIs -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[46]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/241
[46] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/241
<jo> suggest we leave open and discuss further at f2f
rob: I haven't read the latest draft yet
<francois> ACTION: rob to review draft with ISSUE-241 in mind and
see if some further actions are needed [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - rob
rob: the note was that a CT-proxy can create pages for events that
don't have real HTTP proxy URLs
<jo> ACTION: finean to review draft with ISSUE-241 in mind and see
if some further actions are needed [recorded in
[48]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-772 - Review draft with ISSUE-241 in mind
and see if some further actions are needed [on Robert Finean - due
2008-06-17].
rob: for example, sub-page 2 or the page after a javascript event is
triggered
<francois> ISSUE-242?
<trackbot> ISSUE-242 -- User expression of persistent and session
preferences -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[49]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/242
[49] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/242
<jo> I am worried about the whole idea of user preferences and
persistence
<jo> I am particularly concerned that this can be used as a
rationale e.g. for ignoring no-transfrom
<jo> can we leave the issue open?
<francois> ACTION: jo to send his concerns to the mailing-list re.
ISSUE-242 [recorded in
[50]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-773 - Send his concerns to the
mailing-list re. ISSUE-242 [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-06-17].
<francois> ISSUE-243?
<trackbot> ISSUE-243 -- Can OPTIONS be used to determine Server
Transformation Preferences and presentation options (via POWDER?) --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[51]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/243
[51] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/243
<jo> suggest move to scope for future work
<francois> ACTION: daoust to check the OPTIONS method for ISSUE-243
[recorded in
[52]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-774 - Check the OPTIONS method for
ISSUE-243 [on François Daoust - due 2008-06-17].
<francois> ISSUE-244?
<trackbot> ISSUE-244 -- What can a Transforming Proxy infer from
earlier interactions with a Server? -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[53]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/244
[53] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/244
francois: don't have an explanation about what CT-proxy can infer
francois: suggest close issue and leave to vendors to innovate!
<jo> +1 to closing issue
<francois> close ISSUE-244
<francois> ISSUE-255?
<trackbot> ISSUE-255 -- Subdomain and Path as a heuristic in content
transformation -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[54]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/255
[54] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/255
<jo> [don't quite agree with FD]
<jo> [not if it is in a sequence of requests]
<jo> [which is where the whole session thing comes in]
<jo> suggest we leave this till F2F
<jo> should be allowed to change the headers if the reuqest is to a
web site as part of a session
francois: yes, please note this for discussion at F2F
<jo> where the initial request had to have its headers modified
<SeanP> Agree.
<jo> +1 to announcing doc to group
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: daoust to check the OPTIONS method for ISSUE-243
[recorded in
[55]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: daoust to ping Aaron on scoping bogus 200 responses
[recorded in
[56]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: daoust to ping Soonho on providing feedback [recorded
in [57]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: finean to review draft with ISSUE-241 in mind and see
if some further actions are needed [recorded in
[58]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: hgerlach to send a proposal on using meta data to
alert CT-proxy that this is a rejected response even if it's a 200
[recorded in
[59]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: jo to remove "semi-persistent" in 3.2.3 [recorded in
[60]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: jo to send his concerns to the mailing-list re.
ISSUE-242 [recorded in
[61]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: rob to review draft with ISSUE-241 in mind and see if
some further actions are needed [recorded in
[62]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-bpwg-minutes.html#action05]
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 10 June 2008 15:35:58 UTC