Re: [css-writing-modes] Propose writing-mode: sideways-left

> I really think we need more input from other implementers, specifically
> Apple, Microsoft and any other EPUB vendors who support already support
> vertical text. Murakami-san seems content with the proposed change.
> Other implementers, opinions?

My company, BPS co. LTD., is developing an EPUB3 viewer, Cho-Tate-Gaki
(it means super vertiacl layout), based on Blink.  As the name tells,
we did lots of modifications for Blink for beautiful Japanese
typesetting.

In addition, more than 100 thousand of EPUBs are already made and set
to ebook companies' distributing servers.  It means lots of
writing modes related properties are already used in Japan. (I'm not
sure the current situation in Taiwan and other contries.)

My understanding is that the EPUB spec is referencing the newest CSS
writing modes' spec.

I heard that it might not affect to currently distributed EPUBs if
'sideways-rl/rl' are simply added to writing-mode property now.  (I'm
not sure but how about the effect to text-orientation property?
text-orientation is also distributed already to treat U+00A9 to rotate
90 degrees)

From e-book domain perspective, I want the spec to be stable. 

Can the above be opinion to consider the priority? 

--- skk 

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:32:36 +0900
John Daggett <jdaggett@mozilla.com> wrote:

> Jonathan Kew wrote:
> 
> > I don't agree that the proposal being considered here would increase
> > authoring model complexity. If anything, I'd say it offers authors a
> > cleaner and more understandable model. We'd have three modes
> > (horizontal-tb, sideways-lr and sideways-rl) that all lay out text in
> > the same way, but with a ±90° rotation in the sideways-* cases. In all
> > three cases, the text is laid out according to the conventions of
> > horizontal writing, even if it is then rotated in its entirety. No
> > question of glyph orientation within the line ever arises in these
> > modes.
> 
> I guess it boils down to this for me: for 99% of the users of the
> 'writing-mode' property, namely authors in Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong
> laying out vertical text runs, the sideways-* values will be a confusing
> addition. As you describe you're basically mixing in the ability to
> rotate horizontal text layout into a property used to choose between
> horizontal and vertical layout systems. To do so won't be the end of the
> world but it will introduce unfortunate confusion.
> 
> I do understand that this simplifies implementations details. You no
> longer need to be concerned about mixtures of sideways-left and
> sideways-right text in the same block. I just am concerned that we're
> adding values to a commonly-used property, 'writing-mode', for the sake
> of simplifying a less commonly used property, 'text-orientation'.
> 
> Florian Rivoal wrote:
> 
> > > I'd guess that for CJK authors, the use of text-orientation:sideways
> > > will be virtually non-existent, as that simply isn't how these
> > > languages are written vertically.
> >
> > text-orientation:sideways should be used by CJK authors to market small
> piece of foreign language embedded in a their text.
> >
> > article {
> >   writing-mode: vertical-rl;
> >   text-orientation: upright;
> > }
> >
> > article q:lang(en) {
> >   text-orientation: sideways.
> > }
> 
> I think both of these statements are off the mark. The initial value of
> 'text-orientation' is 'mixed', such that the contents of vertical text
> elements will be laid out based on UTR-50 default orientation data. So
> the natural default for vertical text is simply:
> 
> article {
>   writing-mode: vertical-rl;
>   /* default text-orientation: kana/kanji are upright, latin is sideways */
> }
> 
> No need to use text-orientation or extra markup for small runs of Latin
> text.
> 
> The text-orientation property provides an override to the default
> orientation in cases where a character might be used in either
> orientation, such as a symbol:
> 
>   <latin> <symbol> <latin>  ==> sideways
>   <kanji> <symbol> <kanji>  ==> upright
> 
> So its use would be infrequent but not "virtually non-existent".
> 
> I really think we need more input from other implementers, specifically
> Apple, Microsoft and any other EPUB vendors who support already support
> vertical text. Murakami-san seems content with the proposed change.
> Other implementers, opinions?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John Daggett
> Mozilla Japan
> 
> ?


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Received on Friday, 21 August 2015 08:40:13 UTC