- From: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:09:00 -0600
- To: Charles McCathieNevile <chaals@opera.com>
- Cc: Debi Orton <oradnio@gmail.com>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>
Hi Chaals, I can put this up in the Wiki if it helps. Best Regards, Laura On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com> wrote: > > Your edited version looks good in terms of meeting the requirements, would > you mind sending a flat copy without the varying quoting levels, or else put > it in the Wiki, so I can have a nice readable copy to link in the status > list? (I'll link this version in the meantime.) > > On Dec 17, 2009, at 9:19 AM, Charles McCathieNevile wrote: > >> On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:39:11 +0100, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Thanks for providing a Change Proposal for this issue! The chairs are >>> reviewing Change Proposals to ensure that they meet the required structure. >>> Here is our feedback on this Change Proposal: >>> >>> (1) This Change Proposal lacks a clearly marked Summary section (perhaps >>> some of the introductory text is a summary, but that is not clear). >>> (2) This Change Proposal lacks a clearly marked Details section, and does >>> not provide sufficient detail to identify a specific change. It's mentioned >>> that many sections may change, but does not identify explicitly which >>> changes are required by the Change Proposal. >>> (3) This Change Proposal lacks an Impact section. >> >>> On Oct 26, 2009, at 10:53 AM, Charles McCathieNevile wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >> >> >> SUMMARY: >>>> >>>> I would like to propose that the longdesc attribute from HTML 4 be >>>> retained in HTML 5 as an allowed attribute on images. >> >> DETAILS: >>>> >>>> This implies the following changes to the spec: >> >> [I assume these are reasonably clear, and provide sufficient information >> for the editor to incorporate the relevant changes into his workflow. Is >> that assumption valid, and if not, can you please clarify what I should be >> providing?] >> >>>> at >> >> Section 4.8.2 >> >>>> >>>> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/text-level-semantics.html#the-img-element img >>>> would also become interactive content with longdesc present. >> >> i.e. add "or longdesc" after "usemap" in the phrase "If the element has a >> usemap attribute" under the 'Categories' item. >> >>>> The longdesc attribute would be listed as an attribute for the element. >> >> i.e. Add "longdesc" to the list of content attributes, and >> "attribute DOMString longdesc;" to the attributes listed in the DOM >> Interface for the img element. >> >>>> The attribute is described already in HTML 4 [1] and the description can >>>> be re-used although it should be made clear that the URI to which longdesc >>>> refers can be a relative reference to some part of the same page (in order >>>> to be explicit about which content is associated with the image), or a >>>> different page. >> >> I.e. in the first sentence at [1], add text such as "which may refer to a >> point within the current page or to a different page" after the work "link". >> >>>> The example, which references an image but appears to provide useless >>>> alt text should not be copied from HTML 4. >>>> >>>> Other sections that may change: >>>> 4.8.2.1.1, 4.8.2.1.2, 4.8.2.1.3 should all mention that a longdesc *may* >>>> be provided to provide a detailed *description* of the image, e.g. to help a >>>> person who cannot see it to find it from a description. >>>> >>>> 4.8.2.1.5 should mention it as a way to make the association between an >>>> image and the relevant text explicit. >>>> >>>> 4.8.2.1.6 should mention it as the preferred way to point to a >>>> description of the image if this is desired, rather than mis-using the alt >>>> attribute for this purpose. >>>> >>>> 4.8.2.1.9 should mention that where an image is a key part of the >>>> content, it should have sufficient text in the alt attribute to replace the >>>> image, and using the longdesc attribute for critical information is a >>>> mistake. However, it can be used for additional information if desired. >>>> >> RATIONALE: >>>> >>>> This has been a controversial topic. It is clear that longdesc is >>>> relevant only to a fraction of images on the Web, and that it is only >>>> provided in a few of the cases where it is actually relevant. It is also >>>> clearly subject to bogus values to a large extent (perhaps the majority of >>>> the time). And its use is relatively limited, even by those who might be >>>> expected to appreciate it. >>>> >>>> However, it has been implemented multiple times successfully. The fact >>>> that there is bad data associated might account for low overall usage, but >>>> has relatively little impact on implementations, which can readily choose to >>>> simply ignore values which are not URIs, or even to present the value to the >>>> user, and relatively little impact on the user, who can still benefit from a >>>> *good* usage. >>>> >>>> This would require conformance checking to accept the attribute as >>>> valid, and would imply maintaining the existing requirement on Authoring >>>> Tools[2] to allow the author to use this functionality. It would maintain >>>> conformance of HTML-4 tools and content, rather than the current expected >>>> change leaving them non-conforming. >> >> IMPACT >> This has no impact on existing HTML-4 browsers, many of which fail to make >> longdesc accessible other than via the DOM. Failure to make this change >> will have an impact on assistive technologies such as screen readers, >> which use the longdesc attribute to find descriptions of images. >> >>>> [1] >>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/objects.html#adef-longdesc-IMG >>>> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG-10/ makes several relevant requiremnts >>>> >>>> cheers >>>> >>>> Chaals >>>> >>>> --Charles McCathieNevile Opera Software, Standards Group >>>> je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk >>>> http://my.opera.com/chaals Try Opera: http://www.opera.com >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Charles McCathieNevile Opera Software, Standards Group >> je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk >> http://my.opera.com/chaals Try Opera: http://www.opera.com > > > -- Laura L. Carlson
Received on Thursday, 17 December 2009 20:10:36 UTC