ISSUE-118: Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations "index" and "first"

broken-link-types

Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations "index" and "first"

State:
CLOSED
Product:
pre-LC1 HTML 5 spec
Raised by:
Julian Reschke
Opened on:
2010-09-02
Description:
Some of the draft’s/the editor's proposed
re-definitions and re-canonicalizations of some of the link types, will 'break
the Web' as they represent a break with how these link relation keywords are
generally implemented and/or specified. For a good overview over how existing
specs and implementations define or canonicalize link relations, see Alexandre
Alapetite’s table. (Current link to his table:
http://alexandre.alapetite.fr/divers/vrac/20091115_HTML_link_rel.html)

Details:

]] 4.12.4.18.1 Link type "first"
The first keyword may be used with link, a, and area elements. This keyword
creates a hyperlink.
The first keyword indicates that the document is part of a sequence, and that
the link is leading to the document that is the first logical document in the
sequence.
Synonyms: For historical reasons, user agents must also treat the keywords
"begin" and "start" like the first keyword. [[

Issue annotation: Summary: the problem is that 'start' is defined as synonym
for 'first. 'start' is today mainly treated as synonym for "start page/home
page". Start page is very common word for 'home page' in the non-English world.
Thus it should be treated as synonym for 'top' instead.

]] 4.12.4.17.1 Link type "index"
The index keyword may be used with link, a, and area elements. This keyword
creates a hyperlink.
The index keyword indicates that the document is part of a hierarchical
structure, and that the link is leading to the document that is the top of the
hierarchy. It conveys more information when used with the up keyword (q.v.).
Synonyms: For historical reasons, user agents must also treat the keywords
"top", "contents", and "toc" like the index keyword.[[

Issue annotation:
0. Ian suggest to conflate many link types which are treated as different link
types in the wild. E.g Alexandre's table shows that most user agents/user agent
addons see 'top', 'index' and 'toc' as different things. Only 'toc' and
'contents' are often seen as same thing. What does Ian expect? That e.g. iCab
offers a much simpler links relations toolbar in order to treat these things as
synonyms?
1. 'User agents and use agent addons treats 'index' as index page in the book
sense of the word (index in a book). Only Wordpress breaks that and uses Ian's
dumbed down (Apache's index.html pages) interpretation. (However, Wordpress
makes scarce use of link type - and the fewer link types one uses, then of
course, the more synonymous - in practically speaking - does those terms
become.)
2. Since the starting point is wrong, then it becomes meaningless to say that
'top'/'content'/'toc' should be considered synonyms of 'index'.


(raised for Leif Halvard Silli)

Related BugZilla bug: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7475

HTML5-SPEC-SECTIONS [link-type-index link-type-first]
Related Actions Items:
No related actions
Related emails:
  1. [Bug 13636] New: Missing link types (from bugzilla@jessica.w3.org on 2011-08-03)
  2. [Bug 13577] New: ISSUE-118 CP 3, rel='start' and friends, rant (from bugzilla@jessica.w3.org on 2011-08-03)
  3. Re: 'index' link relation (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2011-07-06)
  4. Re: 'index' link relation (ISSUE-118) (from xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no on 2011-06-29)
  5. Re: 'index' link relation (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2011-06-28)
  6. Re: 'index' link relation (ISSUE-118) (from xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no on 2011-06-24)
  7. Re: 'index' link relation (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2011-06-23)
  8. Re: 'index' link relation (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2011-06-23)
  9. {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2011-03-03: Issues, Decisions, Task Force Reports, and Other Business (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2011-03-04)
  10. RE: {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2011-03-03: Issues, Decisions, Task Force Reports, and Other Business (from adrianba@microsoft.com on 2011-03-03)
  11. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2011-03-03: Issues, Decisions, Task Force Reports, and Other Business (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2011-03-02)
  12. rel=archives (was: Working Group Decision on ISSUE-118 broken-link-types) (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2011-03-02)
  13. Re: Working Group Decision on ISSUE-118 broken-link-types (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2011-03-02)
  14. Re: Working Group Decision on ISSUE-118 broken-link-types (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2011-03-01)
  15. Re: Working Group Decision on ISSUE-118 broken-link-types (from philipj@opera.com on 2011-03-01)
  16. Re: Working Group Decision on ISSUE-118 broken-link-types (from xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no on 2011-03-01)
  17. Re: Working Group Decision on ISSUE-118 broken-link-types (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2011-03-01)
  18. Re: Working Group Decision on ISSUE-118 broken-link-types (from mjs@apple.com on 2011-02-28)
  19. Working Group Decision on ISSUE-118 broken-link-types (from mjs@apple.com on 2011-02-28)
  20. {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2011-02-24: Action items and Issues (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2011-02-24)
  21. {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2011-02-24: Action items and Issues (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2011-02-23)
  22. {minutes} HTML WG Telecon 2011-01-06: status of actions, calls, deadlines, task force reports (from plh@w3.org on 2011-01-11)
  23. HTML WG Telecon 2010-12-16: status of actions, calls; task force reports (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2011-01-05)
  24. RE: ISSUE-118: broken-link-types - Straw Poll for Objections (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2010-12-17)
  25. {minutes} HTML WG Telecon 2010-12-16: status of actions, calls, new decisions, task force reports (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2010-12-16)
  26. {minutes} HTML WG Telecon 2010-12-09: status of actions, calls, new decisions (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2010-12-16)
  27. {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-12-16: status of actions, calls, new decisions, task force reports (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2010-12-16)
  28. {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-12-16: status of actions, calls, new decisions, task force reports (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2010-12-15)
  29. Re: {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-12-09: status of actions, calls, new decisions (from mjs@apple.com on 2010-12-09)
  30. Re: ISSUE-118: broken-link-types - Straw Poll for Objections (from mjs@apple.com on 2010-12-08)
  31. Re: ISSUE-118: broken-link-types - Straw Poll for Objections (from jonas@sicking.cc on 2010-12-08)
  32. ISSUE-118: broken-link-types - Straw Poll for Objections (from mjs@apple.com on 2010-12-08)
  33. {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-12-09: status of actions, calls, new decisions (from mjs@apple.com on 2010-12-08)
  34. RE: {minutes} HTML WG Telecon 2010-12-02: status, task force reports, deadlines and publications, meeting schedule (from adrianba@microsoft.com on 2010-12-02)
  35. {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-12-02: status, task force reports, deadlines and publications, meeting schedule (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2010-12-01)
  36. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from annevk@opera.com on 2010-11-30)
  37. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from jirka@kosek.cz on 2010-11-30)
  38. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2010-11-30)
  39. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from robert@ocallahan.org on 2010-11-30)
  40. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from karld@opera.com on 2010-11-29)
  41. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no on 2010-11-29)
  42. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from annevk@opera.com on 2010-11-29)
  43. Re: ACTION-127 (IANA rel regs that are currently deferred) (from mnot@mnot.net on 2010-11-22)
  44. {minutes} HTML WG Telecon 2010-11-18: status of actions, calls, issues, meeting schedule, timeline to LC status (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2010-11-21)
  45. ACTION-127 (IANA rel regs that are currently deferred) (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2010-11-19)
  46. ACTION-196 (IANA rel regs that are currently deferred) (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2010-11-19)
  47. {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-11-18: status of actions, calls, issues, meeting schedule, timeline to LC status (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2010-11-17)
  48. {minutes} HTML WG F2F minutes, Lyon, France, Nov 4-5 Part 2 (3rd time's the charm) (from mike@w3.org on 2010-11-10)
  49. {minutes} HTML WG F2F minutes, Lyon, France, Nov 4-5 Part 1 (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2010-11-09)
  50. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from robert@ocallahan.org on 2010-11-05)
  51. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from kornel@geekhood.net on 2010-11-04)
  52. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from jirka@kosek.cz on 2010-11-04)
  53. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from robert@ocallahan.org on 2010-11-04)
  54. Re: ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from jirka@kosek.cz on 2010-11-04)
  55. ISSUE-118 CP 2 (from ian@hixie.ch on 2010-11-03)
  56. ISSUE-118 CP 3 (from ian@hixie.ch on 2010-11-03)
  57. {minutes} } HTML WG Telecon 2010-10-21: status of actions, calls, issues, heartbeat drafts, and TPAC (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2010-10-21)
  58. {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-10-21: status of actions, calls, issues, heartbeat drafts, and TPAC (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2010-10-20)
  59. ISSUE-118: broken-link-types - Call for counter proposals (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2010-10-20)
  60. Re: Change Proposal ISSUE-118 (from xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no on 2010-10-18)
  61. Change Proposal ISSUE-118 (from xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no on 2010-10-18)
  62. RE: {minutes} HTML WG Telecon 2010-10-14 actions, status of calls, issues and bugs, heartbeat drafts, task force reports (from adrianba@microsoft.com on 2010-10-14)
  63. {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-10-14 actions, status of calls, issues and bugs, heartbeat drafts, task force reports (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2010-10-13)
  64. {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-09-30 status of calls, issues and bugs, Task Force Reports (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2010-09-28)
  65. RE: {minutes} HTML WG Telecon 2010-09-23 status of calls, issues and bugs, TPAC F2F (from adrianba@microsoft.com on 2010-09-23)
  66. {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-09-23 status of calls, issues and bugs, TPAC F2F (from Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com on 2010-09-22)
  67. ISSUE-118 (broken-link-types): Chairs Solicit Proposals (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2010-09-15)
  68. RE: {minutes} HTML WG Telecon 2010-09-09 - LC timeline, distributed extensibility, media accessibility (from adrianba@microsoft.com on 2010-09-09)
  69. {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-09-09 - LC timeline, distributed extensibility, media accessibility (from mjs@apple.com on 2010-09-08)
  70. Re: Report on testing of the link relations registry (from xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no on 2010-09-02)
  71. [Bug 7475] Semantics of rel=first and rel=index breaks specs and implementations (from bugzilla@jessica.w3.org on 2010-09-02)
  72. ISSUE-118 (broken-link-types): Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations 'index' and 'first' [HTML 5 spec] (from sysbot+tracker@w3.org on 2010-09-02)

Related notes:

Closed by Working Group decision: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0481.html

Maciej Stachowiak, 2 Mar 2011, 02:14:17

http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=5923&to=5924

Sam Ruby, 2 Mar 2011, 16:11:06

Changelog:

Created issue 'Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations "index" and "first"' nickname broken-link-types owned by Julian Reschke on product HTML 5 spec, description 'Some of the draft’s/the editor's proposed
re-definitions and re-canonicalizations of some of the link types, will 'break
the Web' as they represent a break with how these link relation keywords are
generally implemented and/or specified. For a good overview over how existing
specs and implementations define or canonicalize link relations, see Alexandre
Alapetite’s table. (Current link to his table:
http://alexandre.alapetite.fr/divers/vrac/20091115_HTML_link_rel.html)

Details:

]] 4.12.4.18.1 Link type "first"
The first keyword may be used with link, a, and area elements. This keyword
creates a hyperlink.
The first keyword indicates that the document is part of a sequence, and that
the link is leading to the document that is the first logical document in the
sequence.
Synonyms: For historical reasons, user agents must also treat the keywords
"begin" and "start" like the first keyword. [[

Issue annotation: Summary: the problem is that 'start' is defined as synonym
for 'first. 'start' is today mainly treated as synonym for "start page/home
page". Start page is very common word for 'home page' in the non-English world.
Thus it should be treated as synonym for 'top' instead.

]] 4.12.4.17.1 Link type "index"
The index keyword may be used with link, a, and area elements. This keyword
creates a hyperlink.
The index keyword indicates that the document is part of a hierarchical
structure, and that the link is leading to the document that is the top of the
hierarchy. It conveys more information when used with the up keyword (q.v.).
Synonyms: For historical reasons, user agents must also treat the keywords
"top", "contents", and "toc" like the index keyword.[[

Issue annotation:
0. Ian suggest to conflate many link types which are treated as different link
types in the wild. E.g Alexandre's table shows that most user agents/user agent
addons see 'top', 'index' and 'toc' as different things. Only 'toc' and
'contents' are often seen as same thing. What does Ian expect? That e.g. iCab
offers a much simpler links relations toolbar in order to treat these things as
synonyms?
1. 'User agents and use agent addons treats 'index' as index page in the book
sense of the word (index in a book). Only Wordpress breaks that and uses Ian's
dumbed down (Apache's index.html pages) interpretation. (However, Wordpress
makes scarce use of link type - and the fewer link types one uses, then of
course, the more synonymous - in practically speaking - does those terms
become.)
2. Since the starting point is wrong, then it becomes meaningless to say that
'top'/'content'/'toc' should be considered synonyms of 'index'.


(raised for Leif Halvard Silli)

Related BugZilla bug: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7475

HTML5-SPEC-SECTIONS [link-type-index link-type-first]
' non-public

Julian Reschke, 2 Sep 2010, 14:30:43

Status changed to 'open'

Sam Ruby, 20 Oct 2010, 13:13:15

Product changed to pre-LC1 HTML 5 spec

Sam Ruby, 29 Jan 2011, 18:22:25

Status changed to 'closed'

Maciej Stachowiak, 2 Mar 2011, 02:14:17


Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Chairs, Michael[tm] Smith <mike@w3.org>, Staff Contact
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