Chatlog 2011-11-01

From W3C eGovernment Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search

See CommonScribe Control Panel, original RRSAgent log and preview nicely formatted version.

Please justify/explain all edits to this page, in your "edit summary" text.

<sandro> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4
<sandro> Guest: Paola (PDM) Di Maio
<sandro> Guest: Jason (jkiss) Kiss
<sandro> Guest: Mark Crawford
<sandro> Guest: Armin ??
<sandro> Guest: Kevin Simkins
<sandro> Guest: Bernard Gidon
<sandro> Guest: unknown ahaller2
<sandro> Guest: Victor Klintsov 
<sandro> Guest: Daniel Hdladky
<sandro> Guest: Karen Myers
<sandro> Guest: Chingteng Hsiao
<sandro> Guest: Jonathan Jeon
<sandro> Present: Dave_McAllister, Hadley_Beeman, Jeanne_Holm, John_Erickson, Phil_Archer,  Yosuke_Funahashi, Brian_Handspicker
<sandro> Remote: Sandro_Hawke, Paola, hyland, gdick, somnath, josema
15:59:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/01-egov-irc
15:59:18 <PhilA> zakim, code?
15:59:18 <Zakim> sorry, PhilA, I don't know what conference this is
15:59:33 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov
15:59:33 <Zakim> ok, sandro, I see SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM already started
15:59:34 <PhilA> meeting: eGovIG
15:59:37 <sandro> zakim, code?
15:59:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 346844 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro
15:59:51 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: eGov all-day meeting Oct 31, Nov 1 -- http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4 Conf Code 346844 ("EGOVIG")
16:00:34 <davemc> davemc has joined #egov
16:00:45 <bhyland> Kevin and I are on the telecon bridge … talking about Halloween activities.
16:00:56 <olyerickson> Hear ye, hear ye...we haven't started yet...
16:01:21 <yosuke> yosuke has joined #egov
16:02:21 <davemc> we only had eleven kids.  all time low
16:02:35 <olyerickson> We have more people in the meeting room today, but we're waiting for Jeanne and Hadley to arrive
16:02:57 <sandro> we must have had 40-50 kids; no idea what the norm is for this house, since we just moved in.
16:03:29 <olyerickson> Jeanne has just arrived
16:04:46 <olyerickson> We're going around the room doing introductions
16:04:49 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:05:07 <sandro> olyerickson, why aren't you dialed in?
16:05:15 <olyerickson> PhilA is doing that now
16:05:54 <Zakim> +tpac
16:07:30 <olyerickson> We have 10 people in the meeting room...Hadley has not shown yet
16:07:32 <bhyland> Phil/John, would you kindly double check positioning of the mics in the room … voices are cutting in & out and sound quite distant ...
16:07:45 <gdick> gdick has joined #eGov
16:07:45 <bhyland> It was better yesterday ...
16:08:27 <bhyland> We are missing every 3rd or 4th word Jeanne is saying ...
16:08:56 <sandro> (its unusable today)
16:09:27 <bhyland> We hear Phil perfectly ...
16:09:51 <bhyland> Perhaps put the women a bit closer ...
16:10:00 <olyerickson> @bhyland we are circled around the mics
16:10:06 <bhyland> ok.
16:10:06 <ahaller2> ahaller2 has joined #egov
16:10:12 <PhilA> present+ Daniel Hdladky
16:10:45 <PhilA> present+ Victor Klintsov
16:11:01 <matthewy> matthewy has joined #egov
16:11:19 <PhilA> present+ Armin
16:11:25 <olyerickson> See http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4 for links to minutes 
16:11:27 <Jeanne> Jeanne has joined #egov
16:11:33 <olyerickson> To the people on the phone: we hear you very well! 
16:12:02 <rigo> rigo has joined #egov
16:13:25 <Jeanne> Everyone doing introductions now.
16:13:47 <olyerickson> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:13:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kevin_Simkins, bhyland, Sandro, tpac
16:14:15 <Jeanne>  Scribes: 9-10:45 scribe Jeanne
16:14:31 <Jeanne>  11-12:30 scribe John
16:15:00 <PhilA> after lunch Dave
16:15:05 <PhilA> Final session me
16:15:07 <davemc> davemc has joined #egov
16:15:33 <olyerickson> TOPIC: Social Media and eGov
16:17:15 <Jeanne> John:  The session on social media is noting that is a topic that has come up before.  there was a paper by John Sheridan and others
16:17:19 <tlr> tlr has joined #egov
16:17:20 <olyerickson> http://www.w3.org/2008/09/msnws/papers/egov-social-ws.html
16:18:11 <Jeanne> John:  The paper noted that a lot more participation by citizens and government would occur.  In Gov-citizens, Citizens-Gov, and citizens to citizens
16:18:31 <Jeanne> That social media would play a roll in elections, campaigning and overall communications.
16:20:07 <PhilA> What is the status of a presidential tweet?
16:21:47 <PhilA> Congress people (and UK MPs) tweet from the chamber
16:22:01 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #egov
16:22:04 <Jeanne> Dave:  Congress in the US tweets, as do many others.
16:22:14 <ahaller2> ahaller2 has joined #egov
16:22:27 <Jeanne> Dave:  A lot of campaign contributions are collected using social media, particularly driven through Twitter.
16:22:36 <olyerickson> RE Social media policies for govt workers, see: http://www.egov.vic.gov.au/victorian-government-resources/government-initiatives-victoria/law-and-justice-victoria/social-media-policy-department-of-justice.html
16:23:08 <Jeanne> Dave:  An interesting point between swaying public opinion vs. stating their opinion.
16:23:44 <Jeanne> Dave:  The record of a how a bill goes through does not necessarily capture the social media aspects.
16:24:11 <Jeanne> John:  The Congressional Record is just the law itself.
16:25:32 <Jeanne> John:  The link above is about the social media guidelines for Australia government workers.
16:26:20 <davemc> UAF guidance for "new media" http://www.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-090406-036.pdf
16:26:34 <davemc> s/UAF/USAF/
16:26:40 <Jeanne> Dave:  Air Force has a flowchart about the use of social media.
16:26:46 <Jeanne> Hadley:  The UK civil service is apolitical.  When an election is occurring much of government goes quiet so that there's no conflict about the previous and future administrations.
16:26:48 <Jeanne> John:  Needs to be an international discussion about how all governments are engaging in social media.
16:27:02 <Jeanne> HadleyBeeman: Rules were updated during the last time, and so civil servants just went quiet to be safe as possible because the rules were not clear.
16:27:18 <Jeanne> HadleyBeeman: So I stopped tweeting during this time.
16:28:00 <Jeanne> HadleyBeeman: Our rules are not structured well about the models of communication we now use.
16:28:28 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Virtual environments are virtual synthetic environments--a platform and the software.
16:28:49 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Virtual worlds; collaboration tools; gaming and interactive tools
16:29:32 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: and artificial intelligence
16:29:45 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Gaming includes Flash, serious games, and training and testing
16:30:08 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: The mission of IEEE is to develop standards for all virtual environments to promote software data and reuse
16:30:17 <davemc> We seem to be verging into gamification (the use of gaming elements in non-game environments)
16:30:24 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: The goal is to take modules from one environment to another
16:30:27 <kevinsimkins> http://www.metaversestandards.org/index.php?title=Projects
16:30:47 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Stargate (link above) is the first test case here
16:32:15 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: In the government, it would be great to have the whole virtual environment, agenda, global chat, individual chat, virtual backdrop of a city, business card sharing, upload into a user briefcase...
16:32:36 <Jeanne> ...and these virtual collaboration rooms are an on-the-go room.  You can also mark up a PDF or other document
16:32:49 <Jeanne> ...and project it through virtual AVI or other format
16:33:37 <Jeanne> ...desktop viewing for PowerPoint, webcam streaming.  I can click on your avatar which can morphy into a real time webcam stream.
16:34:37 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Holodeck challenge going on to create the best version of a holodeck
16:34:43 <olyerickson> Zakim, slow Kevin down...
16:34:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'slow Kevin down', olyerickson
16:35:37 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: including gestures and lots of other capabilities.
16:35:56 <PhilA> q+
16:37:38 <Jeanne> John:  Slow down so that we can help others see what facet of egovernment can do in other types of social media
16:37:44 <Jeanne> olyerickson: Why should we care and what are the issues?
16:37:50 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: there are a lot of interfacing tools and in the virtual space you can wrap them all up into one environment and have them all available at your fingertips
16:37:57 <Jeanne> olyerickson: How should this be on the radar of eGov and what are the challenges governments are facings in this area?
16:38:24 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: the biggest potential to government is collaboration, but also artificial intelligence.  You can have AI bot that lead people step by step through information.
16:38:57 <davemc> davemc has joined #egov
16:39:18 <davemc> Kevin, breathe please
16:39:26 <davemc> we have several comments here
16:39:40 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: You have kinestetic, audio, virtual and others
16:39:43 <PhilA> ack ,e
16:40:07 <davemc> ack PhillA
16:40:14 <Jeanne> PhilA: I find this interesting, particularly in whether the AI and serious gaming can be used in an eGov environment to help policy decisions.
16:40:40 <Jeanne> ...is it possible to imagine that you are considering an environmental policy or plan so that you can artificially create various effects.
16:40:55 <bdhandspicker> bdhandspicker has joined #egov
16:41:04 <Jeanne> PhilA: If a politician is looking at several choices, can you create a AI or virtual model?
16:41:09 <PhilA> ack me
16:41:16 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Absolutely, the challenge this year was on AI.
16:41:28 <davemc> along the lines of gaming: UK banking innovation via gaming : http://gamification.co/tag/uk-government/
16:41:42 <davemc> q+
16:42:06 <Zakim> +bdhandspicker
16:42:51 <Jeanne> PhilA: Within IEEE, if there was a workshop in Barcelona in 2012 could you present at it?
16:43:25 <olyerickson> q?
16:43:27 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Yes.  There are lots of applications available today that allow governments to create assets and move them from world to world virtually.
16:43:29 <olyerickson> q?
16:43:35 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: not everything is happening on your desktop.
16:44:05 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: you have consoles like XBox and Playstation.  Cloud and other aspects affect the platform performance and choices.
16:44:07 <olyerickson> Kevin, breath again: need to pop davemc from the queue
16:45:24 <Jeanne> davemc: There are several examples in the area of gamification (see above).  They built for the internal finance system a way to create and exchange currencies
16:45:31 <PhilA> PhilA: Notes kevinsimkins talking about Web-based virtual worlds - very close to Augmented Reality work in which W3C is playing a role
16:45:39 <Jeanne> davemc: These have resulted in millions of pounds of savings.
16:45:42 <Jeanne> +q
16:45:58 <PhilA> q+
16:46:03 <Jeanne> davemc: It has been extended to other places inside the UK and allows more innovative qualities of government.
16:46:04 <PhilA> ack davemc
16:46:07 <davemc> ack me
16:46:11 <davemc> q-
16:46:19 <olyerickson> q+
16:46:23 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: With social media, there are so many environments and packages that can be shared.
16:46:34 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Whatever you have on your desktop you'll be able to share virtually.
16:46:50 <olyerickson> JH: We're talking about platforms
16:46:58 <olyerickson> ... ways to communicate with citizens
16:47:15 <olyerickson> ... lots of experience with US DoD in virtual environments
16:47:33 <davemc> +1 to Jeanne refocus.
16:47:35 <olyerickson> ... re govts, use it mostly as a "broadcast" media
16:47:45 <olyerickson> ...the term is "social media"
16:48:00 <olyerickson> ... people use it because they can interact and respond to their audience
16:48:06 <davemc> Interactions are incredibly important.
16:48:18 <olyerickson> ... .transparent conversations
16:48:36 <olyerickson> ... for W3C eGov: important to think about sharing policies for social media
16:48:36 <HadleyBeeman> q+
16:48:49 <olyerickson> ... also, using social media to develop community
16:49:01 <olyerickson> ... virtual tools are another tool
16:49:16 <PhilA> q-
16:49:18 <Jeanne> ack Jeanne
16:49:26 <PhilA> ack Jeanne
16:49:58 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: People don't like to download something, they want to be able to work from their desktop.
16:50:38 <Jeanne> olyerickson: The citizenry has been able to use social media to interact and find a voice.  But people are often barely able to use some collaborative tools.
16:50:58 <Jeanne> olyerickson: There is a digitial divide between Facebook and Dropbox.
16:51:23 <Jeanne> olyerickson: I postulate that the introduction of high-end collaborative tools separates the digitial haves and have nots.
16:51:43 <Jeanne> olyerickson: There are tools that people are able to use and others that are more difficult.
16:51:45 <davemc> not sure I agree with that download completely.  In mobile, maybe, but the success of jQuery (~98 of all desktops) Flash (~97%), Adobe Acrobat Reader (~91%) say desktops are different
16:52:07 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Everyone has Adobe, for example.
16:52:13 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to olyerickson's point— digital engagement (or lack thereof) does cause a speedbump in making social media policies
16:52:35 <Jeanne> olyerickson: There are people who are unable to go onto their State's unemployment sites.  The only way to communicate, but these people are homeless or don't have access.
16:53:00 <Jeanne> olyerickson: They are told to go to their library, but there's a real problem where some people don't have computers.
16:53:36 <Jeanne> olyerickson: Part of my volunteer work is connecting people with their unemployment centers.
16:53:37 <PhilA> +1 to olyerickson
16:53:43 <Jeanne> davemc: +1
16:53:54 <PhilA> ack olyerickson
16:54:34 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Net neutrality is important.  If you have telecomm companies throttling your speed, it's affects access and freedoms.
16:54:37 <davemc>  CARD: How does eGov fit into the model of digital have-nots
16:54:43 <PhilA> ack HadleyBeeman
16:54:44 <olyerickson> People who aren't connected digitally don't care about net neutrality...
16:55:04 <tlr> tlr has joined #egov
16:55:07 <davemc> q+
16:55:13 <Jeanne> HadleyBeeman: Authentication and cryptography are areas that governments have a lot of interest in.
16:55:21 <bhyland> @Olyerickson - you might be surprised with the penetration of of mobile devices among the poor in the US — homeless people are given mobile phones with a limited number of minutes & text plans precisely to interact with government, pharmacies, unemployment office, etc.  
16:55:27 <gdick> thinks High Frequency Trading of Information = High Frequency Policy Making !(necessary)
16:55:34 <Jeanne> HadleyBeeman: There are infrastructure areas that governments will want a role and make a strong contribution.
16:55:39 <Zakim> -bdhandspicker
16:56:01 <HadleyBeeman> ack me
16:56:07 <Jeanne> davemc: You just hit a sore spot, crytopgraphy is an export issue.  I have to go through crypto analysis for every project I release.
16:56:08 <Zakim> +bdhandspicker
16:56:08 <olyerickson> @bhyland would you like to jump into the queue? 
16:56:22 <Jeanne> davemc: We do have restrictions on some of this from our governments.
16:56:26 <bhyland> @olyerickson, no thank you.  You have the issues ably handled.
16:56:30 <PhilA> ack davemc
16:56:47 <davemc> q-
16:56:52 <bhyland> q+
16:57:15 <HadleyBeeman> We have potential to liaise with the Federated Social Web XG, who are looking at crypto standards.  Also, with regard to other policy areas (authentication, identity management/verification, net neutrality)
16:57:18 <olyerickson> JH: REspectfully disagrees with Dave
16:57:36 <olyerickson> ... need to be realistic 
16:58:04 <davemc> q+
16:58:04 <olyerickson> ... if we as govt intend to be efficient, how to reach across constituency 
16:58:30 <olyerickson> ... how to propagate across media / beyond electronic
16:58:35 <Jeanne> davemc: We do have have and have nots.  We are not necessarily trying to solve the problem for the have nots.  Our model is trying to figure out the use of elecronic media.
16:59:06 <olyerickson> DM: trying to deliver in the digital space...how we move to analog space is not necessarily our mission
17:00:06 <olyerickson> JH: There are 5 countries represented in room whose citizens *are* able to access... example of India, primary delivery is e;ectronic, end delivery to villiages off posters
17:00:23 <olyerickson> DM: can't have eGov solution that displaces current mechanisms
17:00:46 <olyerickson> ... e.g. govs can have PDF form, but can't eliminate paper form
17:01:23 <davemc> q-
17:02:28 <bhyland> q -
17:02:30 <Jeanne> Anne Fitzgerald--are you on the chat?
17:02:39 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Inspire people to do an action ...
17:02:48 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: to use social media and Twitter to push action to your targeted audience to open up an link to move further down the road with you.
17:03:50 <PhilA> bhyland: makes the point about queue managemenet
17:04:01 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: You want to inspire people to action.
17:04:01 <davemc> again, suggest looking at gamification concepts for engagement
17:04:06 <Jeanne> bhyland: Need to manage the queue for remote...
17:04:12 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
17:04:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kevin_Simkins, bhyland, Sandro, tpac, bdhandspicker
17:04:22 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
17:04:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kevin_Simkins, bhyland, Sandro, tpac, bdhandspicker
17:04:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see tlr, bdhandspicker, davemc, ahaller2, HadleyBeeman, rigo, Jeanne, matthewy, gdick, yosuke, RRSAgent, Zakim, PhilA, olyerickson, chsiao, kevinsimkins, MacTed, bhyland,
17:04:25 <Zakim> ... edsu, trackbot, sandro
17:05:25 <HadleyBeeman> Re the term egov… I'm starting to wonder if there's more scope in this group for informing infrastructural policies (like net neutrality, authentication and crypto) where governments may not have the resources or expertise to hand, but could be making laws/rules that impact the rest of the w3c work
17:05:51 <PhilA> q+
17:05:56 <Jeanne> olyerickson: Other than posting a position statement (like John Sheridan's), it's not clear to me what this group produced earlier.
17:06:04 <PhilA> ack bhyland
17:06:05 <Jeanne> olyerickson: It's not clear to me now where we want to go.
17:06:11 <davemc> q+
17:06:41 <Jeanne> olyerickson: When we deal with policy we have an intuitive feel for what we want to do.  It's not clear to me how we should play with this.
17:06:49 <HadleyBeeman> q+
17:06:53 <PhilA> ack me
17:06:58 <Jeanne> q+
17:07:12 <davemc> to answer John: outside of the doc referenced, nothing was ever extended beyond this
17:07:34 <Jeanne> PhilA: I noticed in the conversation two threads.  Kevin, I find your work very interesting and some of those affect other W3C groups and I will follow up.
17:07:56 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: There are a lot of advancements and ways for people to interact.  Keep an open mind to everything.  Every advancement brings something new down the road.
17:08:16 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: You have to prepare yourself for where the future is.  You have the abilities and all the tools needed to lead the charge.
17:08:26 <olyerickson> q?
17:08:42 <Jeanne> PhilA: The second thread is about the use of Twitter and social media generally, particularly by elected officials.
17:09:04 <Jeanne> Victor:  Members of the Duma do tweet.
17:09:15 <Jeanne> PhilA: Is it a matter of public record.
17:09:30 <Jeanne> Victor:  Not a well spread social conversation or two side communication.
17:09:52 <Jeanne> PhilA: If I tweet something, would you think that message is something that should be part of the public record of the discussions?
17:10:17 <Jeanne> Victor:  Generally they tweet some criticism of their colleagues, and not more substantial.
17:10:43 <Jeanne> PhilA: My thought is that if it is the case that people other than us that if an elected official's tweets should be part of the public record...
17:12:14 <Jeanne> PhilA: This would be a relatively quick thing for us to do.
17:12:19 <olyerickson> @edsu, what is the current status of twitter archives at LoC?
17:12:21 <Jeanne> PhilA: Library of Congress is supposed to be recording every tweet.  Imagine you have an instance where legislators are told that all tweets will be recorded.  It would require a small note or recommendation from the W3C.
17:12:28 <Jeanne> Karen Myers (W3C):  Did you discuss emergency alerts and the use of social media say in Japan during the tsunami?
17:12:42 <PhilA> ack davemc
17:13:46 <Jeanne> davemc: Suggest two things:  there are government docs that say this is how you should and should not use social media--we should collect and look across for commonalities of elements.
17:13:47 <Jeanne> davemc: From that we can become an active task force to show social media is impacting government, outreach models, inreach models, emergencies.
17:13:58 <Jeanne>  CARD: (via Dave) we should collect and look across for commonalities of elements
17:14:20 <davemc> q-
17:15:01 <PhilA> ack HadleyBeeman
17:15:09 <Jeanne> HadleyBeeman: When government makes decisions, they try to create a well rounded picture
17:15:10 <Jeanne> davemc: We need to create a best practices on the use of social media inward and outward facing for government.
17:15:21 <Jeanne> davemc: You can tweet our California senators while in session.
17:15:36 <olyerickson> +1 to davemc's point w.r.t. "best practices" document that captures applications of social media and rec'd policies, etc
17:15:42 <Jeanne> HadleyBeeman: If you decide to put all public services on line, you cut off certain people.  I think there are more such conflicts.
17:16:12 <PhilA> q+
17:16:24 <davemc> +1 to Hadley on providing guidance on impact
17:16:47 <Jeanne> HadleyBeeman: The W3C has a very strong role in helping governments understand the impact of these decisions.
17:16:47 <Jeanne> HadleyBeeman: There is a lot of information that would be important for people to understand.
17:18:01 <Jeanne> PhilA: There is an interesting point about one policy affecting others or other standards.  The place for that is the TAG.
17:18:01 <Jeanne> PhilA: There are policies that do affect the Web and we need to write that up and note it for the TAG.
17:18:08 <Jeanne> PhilA: The Technical Architecture Group is only elected folks who see how the affects of one area on other.
17:18:31 <Jeanne> HadleyBeeman: We also need to reflect back to our colleeagues and others so that we can inform our own governments before such decisions are made.
17:18:37 <PhilA> ack me
17:18:56 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Augmented reality allows people to tag and mark locations.
17:19:37 <davemc> augmented reality is being looked at for standardization, whatever that means <grin>
17:19:49 <davemc> ECMA led activity
17:19:51 <PhilA> Jeanne: It's clear that one aspect of policy might affect other areas
17:20:09 <PhilA> Jeanne: please help us consider where mwe might have connections to make
17:20:22 <olyerickson> Jeanne: At end of day will we collect our items to do
17:21:30 <yosuke> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Draft_chater_of_EITF
17:22:12 <Jeanne> yosuke: The new task force on the Web and TV IG is very interested in emergency information (see link above).
17:22:48 <Jeanne> yosuke: We think that web and TV devices will be a great way to contribute government information and broadcast important information
17:23:34 <Jeanne> PhilA: So the government already has ways to broadcast and they are using it for emergency information?
17:24:10 <Jeanne> yosuke: Government needs to use the telecomm structure for web, tv, mobile, and social media.  Now we have emergency information...
17:24:34 <Jeanne> ...how should the government broadcast information.
17:25:06 <Jeanne> PhilA: On the web and TV working group, the EITF might be formed to help understand how to use the web to get emergency information to people.
17:27:01 <olyerickson> Jeanne: Having another group looking at e.g. disaster classifications etc would be useful
17:27:08 <Jeanne> Bernard:  If we are able to provide the tools that could be a good first step for governments.
17:27:11 <PhilA> bernardGidon: This would be seen as interesting for governments. W3C helping govs to establish/design the services
17:27:16 <olyerickson> .. would make a lot of sense
17:27:30 <gdick> thinks Emergency Information is one thing, Push is another
17:27:37 <Jeanne> PhilA: Interesting that this comes out of Web and TV group
17:27:41 <davemc> q
17:28:07 <Jeanne> Karen:  They have legal mandates that broadcasters need to support for emergency broadcasts.
17:28:34 <Jeanne> chsiao: The Taiwan government is using mixed media, but social media is not that attractive to the government.
17:28:43 <PhilA> KarenMyers: the broadcasters have use cases, hence it comes through the Web and YV WG
17:29:12 <Jeanne> chsiao: Social media is seen as a channel to force government to respond.  We recently had an #Occupy event. 
17:29:45 <Jeanne> chsiao: We don't see how government is going to use social media to engage or broadcast.
17:31:16 <Jeanne> chsiao: The government has lots of channels to do propaganda: TV, traditional media.  The internet and social media is being used more for connecting with the younger generation.
17:31:44 <davemc> just FYI:  The FCC report on social media. http://www.fcc.gov/info-needs-communities
17:31:53 <Jeanne> ahaller2: Australia:  social media is like the US and UK, most senators and government departments tweet regularly and are very present on social media sites.
17:32:31 <Jeanne> ahaller2: The government are looking into different policy areas starting last year
17:33:44 <Jeanne> One of the guidelines Australia has is that PDF documents are not accessible.
17:33:51 <Jeanne> ahaller2: Every government web site needs to follow WCAG standards
17:33:52 <Jeanne> davemc: Note that is being retracted 
17:34:59 <Jeanne> ahaller2: Another issue is captions for videos since if you have to capture every video, you'd rather than upload it
17:35:30 <davemc> clarification The retraction is that PDF is not accessible.  PDF meets all WCAG 2.0 and Acrobat provides capabilities to meet WCAG 2
17:35:47 <Jeanne> ahaller2: We just had a Gov 2.0 conference a few days ago
17:36:12 <Jeanne> Victor:  The policy is more or less independent.  The state has lots of ways to traditionally provide content and information.
17:36:40 <Jeanne> Victor:  In Russia there are many state-owned media companies.  They should listen to what society is saying.
17:36:53 <davemc> WCAG best practices for PDF: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2011/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20110621/pdf.html
17:37:21 <Jeanne> Victor:  Officials need to see that there are technological and social systems that are changing.  It's popular through young people who report accidents and bribes along the road and report them.
17:37:49 <Jeanne> Victor:  Our officials should react.  It is interesting to see how the state-owned media company should organize ideas here because they are close to top officials.
17:39:40 <Jeanne> Daniel:  The media companies collect information over social media to help get a sense of what the public is feeling.
17:41:03 <Jeanne> Daniel:  This group a new opendata.ch that held a first meeting--there might be something coming up from that group.
17:41:11 <Jeanne> Daniel:  From Switzerland, the Ech.ch group is looking at standards on how to produce financial reports and produce documents.
17:41:13 <gdick> "The media companies collect information" doesn't like that gatekeeper to elected officials
17:41:14 <Jeanne> Daniel:  If you check Twitter activity it's low, like 170 tweets for a politician.
17:41:57 <Jeanne> Daniel:  Social media is one way: Facebook, Twitter, and others.
17:42:46 <Jeanne> Daniel:  I think citizens are still following standard news pages, including the younger generations, although they are using FaceBook and Twitter.
17:43:20 <Jeanne> Bernard:  At the European level, in the nordic region they have a lot of initiatives to open the government data to the population.  It is part of the social environment and they are pushing it.
17:43:40 <Jeanne> Bernard:  In Israel, they are very open and want to provide this type of information to the population. 
17:44:05 <Jeanne> Bernard:  Some of this is related to security problems, like providing all the bus timing, but they are in the real process to open information.
17:44:37 <Jeanne> Bernard:  In France, there are lots of places and cities that are opening up the data.  There's a real process in Europe to do this and the UK story  was well received.
17:44:54 <Jeanne> Bernard:  It's very interesting to show the population how they are leading.
17:45:40 <Jeanne> Bernard:  The President tweets and during a government meeting, some minister is sending information about what is going on during the meeting.  But the President asked them to shut it down because they were talking too soon.
17:46:24 <Jeanne> Karen:  In Boston, a very sophisticated area.  Senators, state, and federal levels in social media.  The mayor of Boston is concerned when a lot of tweets come in about potholes or other things.
17:46:43 <Jeanne> Karen:  There are many more issues that are exposed and there is a two way interaction.
17:47:27 <davemc> ack
17:47:31 <davemc> q+
17:47:36 <davemc> q-
17:47:56 <tlr> tlr has joined #egov
17:48:11 <Jeanne> olyerickson: The state of Vermont uses social media to gather needed repairs and reports about roads and disasters.
17:48:13 <Jeanne> q-
17:49:35 <PhilA> q?
17:49:46 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
17:49:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kevin_Simkins, bhyland, Sandro, tpac, bdhandspicker
17:49:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see tlr, bdhandspicker, davemc, ahaller2, HadleyBeeman, rigo, Jeanne, matthewy, gdick, yosuke, RRSAgent, Zakim, PhilA, olyerickson, chsiao, kevinsimkins, MacTed, bhyland,
17:49:50 <Zakim> ... edsu, trackbot, sandro
17:50:30 <Jeanne> Matthew Yates:  Very interested in government and citizens use of social media.  Concern:  the use is evolving at such a pace, is W3C positioned to respond quickly onthis?
17:50:34 <Jeanne> bhyland: Very interesting to hear everyone's perspectives.
17:50:43 <HadleyBeeman> q+
17:51:10 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Good to think about augmented reality and the citizen-citizen interactions
17:51:31 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: And gov-citizen interactions that allow mobile connectivity as well.
17:51:33 <PhilA> kevinsimkins: talks about Augmented Reality on mobile and where citizens can upload info about things like length of queues at locations etc.
17:52:18 <Jeanne> bhyland: Because this is so well funded at DoD in the US, what is the time horizon for this to be more used by the general public?
17:52:27 <gdick> thinks like data.gov airports app ?
17:52:49 <davemc> AR is also quite active in the open source community.
17:52:53 <Jeanne> bhyland: Many of the apps used were developed initially by DoD and others.
17:53:09 <Jeanne> bhyland: what is the horizon until these are easily available?
17:53:09 <PhilA> q+
17:53:18 <Jeanne> kevinsimkins: Two years
17:53:31 <bhyland> Thanks Kevin, very interesting.
17:53:40 <davemc> AR from gartner hype cycle: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1447613
17:53:45 <JonathanJ> JonathanJ has joined #egov
17:53:48 <PhilA> ack HadleyBeeman
17:53:57 <davemc> if you trust gartner
17:54:22 <bhyland> @Jeanne - are you going to take a break before I facilitate a session on W3C Government Linked Data WG / Community Directory?
17:54:57 <Jeanne> HadleyBeeman: UK government is currently funding 600,000 pounds of competition in the private sector to manage publicly available social media data.
17:55:07 <Jeanne> PhilA: There is an Augmented Reality IG and are looking at which areas of web technology are available.
17:55:08 <Jeanne> ack Phila
17:55:10 <Jeanne> bhyland: Yes
17:55:49 <Jeanne> PhilA: This group should look at the use of such technologies within gov
17:57:34 <Zakim> -bdhandspicker
17:57:48 <bhyland> The discussion after the break is an update on W3C Government Linked Data Working Group & the Community Directory deliverable.  Slides at http://www.slideshare.net/bhylandwood/20111101-b-hylandw3ctpacegov-9979983
17:57:56 <gdick> http://explore.data.gov/Transportation/Airport-Status-Web-Service/73wc-weaf
17:58:06 <bhyland> (sorry I couldn't post on W3C wiki as the limit was 5MB and my deck is a  bit larger ...)
17:59:02 <Zakim> -bhyland
17:59:17 <bhyland> I'll dial back in at 11:15AM PST
18:03:19 <Zakim> -Kevin_Simkins
18:07:40 <JonathanJ> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:07:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/01-egov-minutes.html JonathanJ
18:13:11 <Zakim> +bhyland
18:21:00 <olyerickson> zkim, i'm the scribe.
18:21:14 <olyerickson1> olyerickson1 has joined #egov
18:21:37 <bhyland> http://www.slideshare.net/bhylandwood/20111101-b-hylandw3ctpacegov-9979983
18:21:42 <olyerickson1> zakim, I am the scribe.
18:21:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I am the scribe', olyerickson1
18:21:52 <olyerickson1> scribe: olyerickson
18:22:00 <olyerickson1> TOPIC: community directory
18:23:00 <olyerickson1> Point of order: AnneF will speak in afternoon
18:23:29 <olyerickson1> bhyland: will highlight importance of o.g. licensing during talk
18:23:39 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #egov
18:23:49 <olyerickson1> ... has updated slides on w3c site
18:24:14 <olyerickson1> ... correction: NOT yet on site
18:24:15 <bhyland> Here are my slides, please see http://www.slideshare.net/bhylandwood/20111101-b-hylandw3ctpacegov-9979983
18:25:28 <olyerickson1> bhyland: is reusing much of her content from Warsaw
18:25:49 <olyerickson1> ... these slides more focused on w3c-related issues
18:26:02 <olyerickson1> ... no assumption that people have Linked Data background
18:26:18 <olyerickson1>  Slide: "Why do we share" 
18:26:51 <olyerickson1> ... Modern web is information center owned by noone
18:27:05 <olyerickson1> ... W3C is to be credited with this accomplishment
18:27:27 <olyerickson1> ... W3C process --- open forums, etc
18:27:52 <Zakim> +Kevin_Simkins
18:28:12 <olyerickson1> ... open govt data initiatives & partnerships have potential to do major good
18:28:27 <matthewy> matthewy has joined #egov
18:28:40 <olyerickson1>  Slide: It;s a good thing to share...
18:28:54 <olyerickson1>  Slide: "Sharing Worldwide"
18:29:25 <olyerickson1> ... sharing will xform how govts serve
18:29:35 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Unclear how to get there
18:29:55 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Ref's to several Linked Data books
18:30:06 <olyerickson1> ... evolutionary approach, won't get there overnight
18:30:23 <olyerickson1> ... knowledge of HOW mush be shared openly through publication
18:31:26 <olyerickson1> ... Def'n of Linked Data; essence is sharing data based on open int'l standards
18:31:36 <olyerickson1> ... predicated on 20-yr-old principals
18:31:47 <olyerickson1> s/pals/ples/
18:33:37 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Linking Govt Data (book): 42 contributors from 8 countries about real-world applications
18:33:42 <olyerickson1> ... peer-reviewed chapters
18:34:15 <olyerickson1> ... concept: if we have books out there, will ultimately influence policy
18:34:43 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Springer site for Linking Govt Data book
18:35:02 <olyerickson1>  Slide: TBL's 5 Star Rating (coffee cup)
18:35:20 <karen> karen has joined #egov
18:35:51 <olyerickson1> ... ref TBL's defn of 5 stars
18:36:33 <olyerickson1> ... discussion of purpose of W3C GLD WG: best practices for high-quality open govt data 
18:37:09 <olyerickson1> ... examples of high-quality data 
18:37:35 <olyerickson1> ... 4, 5-star linked data includes: science data, health data, environmental data
18:38:17 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Funky BBC slide backed by RDF
18:38:56 <olyerickson1> ... Human-readable web page about mallard duck, supported by RDF
18:39:24 <olyerickson1> ... side comment: bhyland to supply URLs to books at end of talk
18:39:50 <olyerickson1> ... RDF on BBC mallard slide shown in Turtle
18:40:27 <olyerickson1> ... Note about slide: revolution in data sharing is happening inside enterprise as well as out
18:40:38 <olyerickson1>  Slide: "We;ve seen this before"
18:40:50 <olyerickson1> ... human- vs machine-readable
18:41:02 <olyerickson1> ... credit-card example
18:41:30 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Lots of logos...household names in USA, so. hemisphere, Europe
18:41:40 <olyerickson1> ... orgs that are sharing their data
18:42:21 <olyerickson1> ... special note: the companies that are typically cautious, slow moving, but are active
18:42:50 <olyerickson1> ... story of Dennis Misnoski (sp!) from DoD
18:43:06 <olyerickson1> ... story of wasted investment in data integration
18:43:43 <bhyland> s/Dennis Misnoski/Dennis Wisnosky
18:43:46 <olyerickson1> ... (DoD guy) has been featured at various recent semantic technology conference
18:44:14 <olyerickson1>  Slide: "In 3 brief years"
18:44:38 <olyerickson1> ... Linked Data rollout timeline since 2008
18:45:38 <olyerickson1> ... Sep 2011, Obama & Brazil pres endorses "Open Govt Partnership" along with 7 other nations
18:45:58 <olyerickson1> ... total of nine govt's have published documents/statements 
18:46:15 <olyerickson1> ... we are fortunate to have endorsement/support of heads-of-state
18:46:21 <Zakim> +bdhandspicker
18:46:29 <olyerickson1>  Slide: 
18:46:44 <olyerickson1>  Slide: "What has a standard ever done for me?"
18:47:05 <olyerickson1> ... successes of W3C recommendations
18:47:24 <olyerickson1> ... have enabled the "sharing revolution"
18:47:39 <olyerickson1> ... consider the alternative: CLOSED
18:48:19 <bhyland> Francis Gurry, the Director General of the UN's World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO).  
18:48:19 <bhyland> In Gurry's view, “the Web would have been better off if it had been locked away in patents, and if every user of the Web had needed to pay a license fee to use it.”
18:48:21 <olyerickson1> ... They are those "in high places" who would prefer the info environment be more closed
18:48:58 <olyerickson1>  Slide: The LOD Cloud (Sep 2011)
18:49:11 <olyerickson1> ... Richard Cyganiak et.al.
18:49:21 <olyerickson1> ... the full-color version...
18:50:17 <olyerickson1> ... LOD cloud has more than 31B triples, millions of links
18:50:30 <olyerickson1> ... some do the linking better than others
18:50:45 <olyerickson1> ... Govts are ones who actually don't do a great job inter-linking
18:51:10 <olyerickson1> ... bhyland gives tour of the LOD cloud...
18:51:52 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Open Govt Data Camp
18:52:28 <olyerickson1> ... map of world, showing highlights of attendance
18:52:37 <bhyland> Open Government Data Camp 2011 attendees:  41 countries (18%).
18:52:37 <bhyland>  Source : http://ogdcamp.org/about/countries/
18:52:38 <olyerickson1> ... 41 countries in attendance
18:52:48 <olyerickson1> ... mostly open data advocates
18:53:04 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Open Govt Data *Sites*
18:53:14 <olyerickson1> ... flipping between slides
18:53:44 <olyerickson1> ... highlights the fact that OGC attendees focused on learning
18:54:34 <olyerickson1> bhyland asks karen to speak to role of eGov activity
18:54:48 <olyerickson1> karen: lots of support from TBL
18:55:04 <olyerickson1> PhilA: W3C very keen on the activity
18:55:24 <olyerickson1> bhyland: everyone should take satisfaction in knowing thta this is not an obscure activity
18:55:35 <olyerickson1> ... tip of the iceberg of what needs to be done
18:55:44 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Govt LOD on CKAN
18:56:15 <olyerickson1> ... data published on ckan meeting standards for license, size, inter-linking
18:56:21 <bhyland> Government LOD published to CKAN.net, meeting LOD standards for license, size, interlinking, regardless of publisher:  28 countries (12%)
18:56:21 <bhyland> Government publishers: Remove Brazil.  Note that EU publishes for Europe; UK publishes most.
18:56:21 <bhyland> Source : http://thedatahub.org/dataset
18:56:42 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Largest Publisher of Govt LOD
18:56:51 <olyerickson1> ... UK govt should feel really good
18:58:01 <olyerickson1> ... comments on EU commission's funding levels over open initiatives over next 7-10 years
18:58:24 <olyerickson1> ... EU solves this problem in a "different way..."
18:59:06 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Will LD cross the chasm? (image of cliffs along the ocean)
18:59:11 <olyerickson1> ... JSON not good enough
18:59:37 <olyerickson1> ... litany of criticisms that are no longer true
18:59:51 <olyerickson1> ... many tools available via open source 
19:00:08 <olyerickson1> ... mention of Callimachus
19:00:28 <olyerickson1> ... racing to a future with increasingly more complex info
19:00:53 <olyerickson1>  Slide: What is next, signs of things to come, structured data becoming mainstream
19:01:09 <olyerickson1> ... e.g. Schema.org partnership
19:01:17 <olyerickson1>  Slide: W3G GLD WG
19:01:27 <olyerickson1> ... Runs through May 2013
19:01:42 <olyerickson1> ... 39 participants from 25 orgs
19:01:53 <olyerickson1> ...50% are *not* USA
19:02:03 <olyerickson1> ... ref> GLD charter URL
19:02:43 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Screen shot of GLD charter
19:02:55 <olyerickson1> ... weekly calls
19:03:07 <olyerickson1> ... several f2f's throughout year
19:03:13 <olyerickson1>  Slide: GLD Deliverables
19:03:20 <olyerickson1> ... Community Directory
19:03:25 <olyerickson1> ... Best Practices
19:04:02 <Zakim> -Sandro
19:04:22 <olyerickson1> ... big issue: understanding context about the data
19:04:39 <olyerickson1> ... context crucial to using the data
19:04:57 <Zakim> +Sandro
19:04:59 <olyerickson1> ... if licensing terms not clear, no professional org will want to touch it
19:05:29 <olyerickson1> ... licensing of "content" in USA different than e.g. in EU
19:05:31 <rigo> rigo has joined #egov
19:05:55 <olyerickson1> ... GLD WG not dealing with licensing 
19:06:05 <olyerickson1> ... CC has done remarkable job
19:06:23 <olyerickson1> ... UK has produced open govt license (exemplar)
19:06:59 <olyerickson1> sandro: reminder of Open Knowledge Foundation contribution
19:07:47 <olyerickson1> bhyland: Summary of OKFN role, W3C role
19:08:09 <olyerickson1> ... also in GLD charter: Cookbook for LOD
19:08:44 <olyerickson1>  slide: Screen shot of Community Directory prototype (list of orgs)
19:08:54 <olyerickson1> ... intended to be open
19:09:01 <olyerickson1> ... to serve as clearinghouse
19:09:19 <olyerickson1> ... to act as a "hub" for orgs in business of publishing linked data
19:09:27 <olyerickson1> ... regardless of "star" ranking
19:09:51 <olyerickson1> ... goal is to have names, contact details, links to orgs providing services
19:10:25 <olyerickson1> http://www.w3.org/egov/directory/ 
19:11:04 <olyerickson1> ... need for community to have place to grab stats on what's happening around the world
19:11:19 <olyerickson1> ... how many orgs of what type are doing what
19:11:29 <ahaller2_> ahaller2_ has joined #egov
19:11:44 <olyerickson1> ... Community Directory built on Callimachus platform
19:12:15 <olyerickson1> PhilA: Instance of Callimachus that 3roundstones hosting that W3C is pointing at
19:12:21 <olyerickson1> bhyland; yes
19:12:44 <olyerickson1> ... built on open source platform, using data in standard open format, etc 
19:13:10 <olyerickson1> ... "lets all go in the same direction"
19:13:44 <olyerickson1> ... sharing of informaiton about who else is doing this stuff, where are they, what are they working on
19:13:47 <Zakim> -bdhandspicker
19:13:56 <olyerickson1> PhilA: Just orgs or individuals? 
19:14:22 <olyerickson1> bhyland: yes, individual contributors, contractors, companies, W3C members or non-members
19:14:40 <olyerickson1> ... info must be "neutral" and objective
19:15:11 <olyerickson1>  Slide: 3 Round Stones Inc directory page
19:15:25 <olyerickson1> ... illustration of entering info
19:15:44 <olyerickson1> ... CD in beta; now is the time to submit suggestions
19:16:03 <olyerickson1> ... extending to include events, etc
19:16:14 <olyerickson1> ... intent is not to have a complex application
19:16:38 <olyerickson1> ... email to gld public list with feedback
19:16:46 <olyerickson1> q?
19:16:46 <bhyland> q?
19:17:23 <olyerickson1> PhilA: (off minutes)
19:17:55 <olyerickson1> PhilA: is this sustainable by 3RoundStones? 
19:18:01 <olyerickson1> bhyland: for now, yes
19:18:14 <olyerickson1> ... good test of callimachus
19:18:28 <olyerickson1> ... in line with business of their company
19:18:37 <olyerickson1> ... Also, open source project 
19:19:59 <olyerickson1> sandro: point about WG taking over if for some reason 3RoundStones couldn't continue with CD
19:20:18 <olyerickson1> ... its in the WG charter
19:20:48 <olyerickson1> ... aside: Callimachus is a tool intended for Web 2.0 developers
19:21:08 <olyerickson1> ... HTML, CSS, javascript, a little Sparql
19:21:17 <olyerickson1> ... Slide: Statistics Page
19:21:48 <olyerickson1> ... shows integration of Google Viz api
19:22:05 <olyerickson1> ... other renderings easy
19:22:19 <olyerickson1>  Slide: Screen shot of W3C PROV WG
19:22:35 <olyerickson1> ... data analytics requires knowledge of where data comes from
19:22:48 <olyerickson1> ... authenticity, trust, reproducability
19:22:59 <bhyland> Data analytics requires knowledge of where data came from.  A standard for data provenance is on its way.
19:22:59 <bhyland> “Provenance provides a critical foundation for assessing authenticity, enabling trust, and allowing reproducibility. Provenance assertions are a form of contextual metadata and can themselves become important records with their own provenance.” - W3C Working Group
19:23:01 <olyerickson1> ... provenance provides content
19:23:15 <olyerickson1> s/content/context/
19:23:40 <olyerickson1> ... W3c GLD WG is about pragmatic recommendations
19:24:18 <olyerickson1>  Slide: bhyland contact details
19:24:29 <olyerickson1>  Slide: creative Commons 
19:25:04 <olyerickson1> bhyland: Questions? 
19:26:01 <olyerickson1> Daniel (switzerland): Possible to share details numbers
19:26:17 <olyerickson1> bhyland will point to Dennis Wisnosky's talk
19:27:07 <bhyland>  Beta: http://www.w3.org/egov/directory/
19:27:07 <bhyland> email mailto:support@3roundstones.com for login to add your organization’s details
19:27:19 <olyerickson1> PhilA: keen to play with it
19:30:48 <PhilA> Looking at http://directory.3roundstones.net/rdf/directory/Organization/rensselaer+polytechnic+institute/tetherless+world+constellation/+linking+open+government+data+portal?view
19:31:24 <gdick> wonders how to filter "quality" after the third star
19:31:40 <olyerickson1> olyerickson: somehow should eat the linked data dogfood more completely
19:32:04 <olyerickson1> PhilA: Will the URLs conneg to RDF?
19:32:11 <olyerickson1> bhyland: yes
19:32:19 <olyerickson1> jeanne: Other types of content>
19:32:58 <olyerickson1> ... recommendations of how to include contributors of e.g. 1-start providers? 
19:33:23 <olyerickson1> bhyland: desire is to have threashold be low
19:33:49 <olyerickson1> ... desire is not to be a data catalog, rather an addressbook
19:34:18 <olyerickson1> ... e.g. conference organizer might use it to find speakers on particular topic
19:34:20 <gdick> smiles
19:34:37 <olyerickson1> ... "address book on steroids"
19:34:47 <olyerickson1> ... who's doing what
19:35:05 <olyerickson1> ... consider this an open invitation
19:35:15 <olyerickson1> ... please provide feedback and suggestions
19:35:27 <bhyland> Public W3C GLD WG list: W3C public GLD WG WG <public-gld-wg@w3.org>
19:35:41 <bhyland> Chairs of GLD WG: GLD Chairs <team-gld-chairs@w3.org>
19:36:38 <olyerickson1> GLD "chairs" list is for off-list issues/input to bhyland, george thomas, sandro 
19:37:05 <olyerickson1> PhilA: interesting that it's using vcard for people
19:37:15 <olyerickson1> bhyland: easy to change
19:38:23 <olyerickson1> bhyland: thanks for opporunity to participate
19:38:35 <olyerickson1> TOPIC: Lunch
19:39:19 <olyerickson1> ... W3C eGov group is now in panic about eating
19:39:44 <bhyland> FWIW, I said there was a slide with links to the Linked Data books.  I apparently removed the slide.  Here are the links:
19:39:45 <bhyland> http://linkeddatabook.com/editions/1.0/
19:39:45 <bhyland> http://3roundstones.com/linking-enterprise-data/
19:39:45 <bhyland> http://3roundstones.com/linking-enterprise-data/
19:39:45 <bhyland> http://www.linkeddatadeveloper.com/
19:41:03 <olyerickson1> Agenda has been updated on the wiki
19:41:33 <bhyland> See http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4#Tuesday.2C_1_November_2011
19:41:39 <bhyland> Thanks all.
19:41:42 <bhyland> enjoy lunch.
19:41:46 <PhilA> thanks Bernadette
19:41:51 <Zakim> -bhyland
19:42:20 <bhyland> np.  thank you for putting up presentation & being my assistant ;-)
19:43:53 <gdick> St. Francis and Mr. Spock are eating already
19:45:30 <Zakim> -tpac
19:47:10 <Zakim> -Sandro
19:48:53 <Zakim> -Kevin_Simkins
19:48:55 <Zakim> SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM has ended
19:48:57 <Zakim> Attendees were Kevin_Simkins, bhyland, Sandro, tpac, bdhandspicker
19:50:06 <Zakim> SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM has now started
19:50:13 <Zakim> +bdhandspicker
19:50:39 <Zakim> -bdhandspicker
19:50:41 <Zakim> SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM has ended
19:50:41 <Zakim> Attendees were bdhandspicker
20:27:03 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #egov
20:28:23 <olyerickson> olyerickson has joined #egov
20:38:38 <chsiao> chsiao has joined #egov
20:51:33 <tlr> tlr has joined #egov
20:53:32 <rigo> rigo has joined #egov
20:53:39 <sandro> hey Thomas, Rigo
20:53:52 <sandro> Not quite sure when folks are coming back from lunch,
20:55:24 <davemc> davemc has joined #egov
20:57:12 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #egov
20:59:37 <davemc> rrsagent grep minutes
21:02:49 <Zakim> SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM has now started
21:02:56 <Zakim> +bhyland
21:03:33 <bhyland> Hi all, what time are you starting up again?
21:04:46 <matthewy> matthewy has joined #egov
21:05:48 <Zakim> +tpac
21:05:51 <Zakim> -bhyland
21:05:52 <Zakim> +bhyland
21:06:16 <davemc> zakim, who is here?
21:06:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, tpac
21:06:16 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
21:06:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see matthewy, HadleyBeeman, davemc, rigo, tlr, gdick, RRSAgent, Zakim, kevinsimkins, MacTed, bhyland, edsu, trackbot, sandro
21:06:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, tpac
21:07:17 <PhilA> PhilA has joined #egov
21:07:28 <Zakim> +Sandro
21:08:01 <PhilA> Today are here http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/meeting/2011-11-01
21:08:16 <PhilA> yesterday http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/meeting/2011-10-31
21:08:28 <davemc> davemc now scribing
21:08:55 <davemc> we have now found notes from yesterday
21:09:00 <Jeanne> Jeanne has joined #egov
21:09:10 <davemc> Zakim, who is on the call?
21:09:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, tpac, Sandro
21:09:27 <davemc> Hadley will be in an out
21:09:41 <davemc>  resend: Today are here http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/meeting/2011-11-01
21:09:41 <davemc>  02:08 PhilA yesterday http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/meeting/2011-10-31
21:10:46 <olyerickson> olyerickson has joined #egov
21:11:05 <davemc> Jeanne hasn't heard back from Ann
21:11:19 <davemc> Berndette also checking
21:11:52 <davemc> Jeanne: back-up plan is to have her lead discussion in next session
21:12:05 <davemc> s/bjeanne/Jeanne/
21:12:58 <davemc> Bernadette reports Anne will catch us at the next meeting
21:13:14 <bhyland> From Anne Fitzgerald: I agree that the licensing issues are increasingly relevant and I do think that our now quite extensive experience shows that this does work with significant parts of the public sector.  The adoption of the CC licences is far preferable to each country (or State within a country) developing its own specific licence - as has been happening in the UK and throughout Europe.
21:13:14 <bhyland> Let me know if I am off the hook.  If you think that is ok, please apologise but make it clear that I would like to talk to the group sometime soon.
21:13:26 <davemc> Bernadette reports Anne's message
21:13:38 <PhilA> Links to the agenda are now on the wiki http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Main_Page#eGovernment_Interest_Group and the agenda links to the minutes (at the top of the page. Time zones mean that the minutes appear to span 3 days)
21:13:47 <davemc> Jeanne: We will plan for Ann for next virtual meeting
21:14:51 <davemc> PhilA: shows us a really cool trick for IRC scribing
21:15:51 <olyerickson> +1 to Anne joining us next virtual meeting
21:16:22 <Jeanne> Text for upcoming slide from Jeanne: What are the components that are necessary for an open government site? Discussion Think of a way to symbolize the important components Create those from Legos Bring them to the front to share Place them with others that are like them
21:16:38 <davemc> ACTION: Jeanne to arrange Anne for next meeting
21:16:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-121 - Arrange Anne for next meeting [on Jeanne Holm - due 2011-11-08].
21:16:56 <davemc> Jeanne: will send slides later
21:17:26 <davemc> Jeanne: brainstorm sessions on creating an open gov site
21:18:02 <davemc> Jeanne: what should/would/will/have we put into an open gov site
21:18:34 <davemc> Jeanne: build whatever who think about
21:19:24 <davemc> Jeanne: search for images that are symbolic to show in a web site, but no servers.  Think all parts of the world
21:20:11 <chsiao> chsiao has joined #egov
21:20:52 <davemc> Jeanne: 15 minutes of build, then symbology sharing
21:21:49 <Zakim> +Kevin_Simkins
21:21:57 <davemc> Hi Kevin
21:24:13 <kevinsimkins> hello
21:37:26 <PhilA> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4
21:42:02 <davemc> we have temp lost 2 of 4 members
21:42:11 <davemc> and they are back
21:42:53 <Jeanne> Post to the wiki or to the IRC the images
21:47:51 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/People/Sandro/egov-images
21:48:26 <davemc> davemc has joined #egov
21:48:34 <PhilA> sandro: Images show public spaces that have structure
21:49:28 <Jeanne> Hacking and disparate data http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:IMG00210-20111101-1437.jpg
21:50:12 <davemc> Sandro:  these symbolize open gov. first were corridors and open ways to get places
21:50:33 <davemc> sandro: second are parks that mix organic and structure
21:51:05 <davemc> Jeanne: these are great.  no hard corners
21:51:16 <davemc> sandro: these seems right
21:52:40 <davemc> Jeanne: uploaded image http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:IMG00210-20111101-1437.jpg
21:53:09 <davemc> Jeanne: some incomplete. some dont connect.  Discrete non-formatted data is operable
21:54:02 <davemc> Jeanne: superhero model with flame. doing radical things may hurt/help the effort
21:54:17 <davemc> Jeanne: hackers with good intentions but prolematic
21:54:46 <davemc> Jeanne: collaborative model web. It is under development and cool
21:55:17 <davemc> Jeanne: next is bird on alligator, different agendas different policies mixing
21:55:34 <davemc> Jeanne: shield and spear to symbolize security needs
21:55:55 <Zakim> +bdhandspicker
21:56:08 <davemc> Welcome Brian
21:57:03 <davemc> PhilA: describing what we have been doing: building lego models and/or images that represent an open gov data portal should include
21:57:16 <Jeanne> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:IMG00211-20111101-1438.jpg
21:59:16 <davemc> Jeanne: will mail Kevins file around due to slow upload
21:59:26 <bhyland> The history of Lego is worth noting … started in Denmark in 1916 in Denmark.  By 1949 the Lego Group began producing similar bricks, calling them "Automatic Binding Bricks." Lego bricks, then manufactured from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose_acetate, were developed in the spirit of traditional wooden blocks that could be stacked upon one another but could be "locked" together. They had several round "studs" on top, and a hollow rectangular bottom. Th
21:59:44 <bhyland> In effect, a standard was born for interoperability.
22:00:22 <bhyland> In August 1988, 38 children from 17 different countries took part in the first Lego World Cup building contest, held in Billund. That same year, Lego Canada was established.
22:00:36 <bhyland> In fact, one could say that where Lego has been, the Web is going :-)
22:00:39 <davemc> kevinsimkins: collaboration toolrooms.  peer to peer, some 3d images
22:00:51 <bhyland> The above content from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Lego
22:01:03 <davemc> kevinsimkins: one pic hs colalboration, has models, vidoeo, messaging
22:02:41 <davemc> brian: notes his data is often specific and personal.  very specific needs to pull together
22:03:26 <davemc> bhyland: congrats Brian on progress made by NY
22:03:48 <davemc> brian:  working on just getting stuff out of disparate database
22:04:47 <davemc> bhyland: not all data is 4, 5 star, nor needs to be.
22:04:57 <davemc> Brian: just working on getting 1 star 
22:05:20 <davemc> PhilA: sensitive info on kids?
22:05:43 <davemc> Brian: works for child services.  All types of services, all types of data
22:06:26 <davemc> PhilA: interested in Brians use case
22:07:14 <davemc> zakim, who is here?
22:07:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, tpac, Sandro, Kevin_Simkins, bdhandspicker
22:07:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see davemc, chsiao, Jeanne, PhilA, matthewy, HadleyBeeman, rigo, tlr, gdick, RRSAgent, Zakim, kevinsimkins, bhyland, edsu, trackbot, sandro
22:08:00 <Jeanne> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:IMG00214-20111101-1440.jpg from Phil Archer
22:08:23 <gdick> thinks send searchers to the PII namespace http://purl.org/pii/terms/ and let them run around
22:08:35 <davemc> PhilA: very solid base. in terms of portal. needs strong platform
22:08:52 <davemc> PhilA: corridor for good navigation, to lead to goal.
22:09:07 <davemc> PhilA: but has paths to explore.
22:09:48 <Jeanne> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:IMG00216-20111101-1505.jpg from DaveMc
22:10:05 <davemc> PhilA: there is a guide, apolitical guide, even in transition. headless to allow the user to lead
22:10:22 <davemc> PhilA: lots of things that move to indicate apps
22:10:36 <davemc> PhilA: also offers video, multimedia
22:10:44 <Jeanne> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:IMG00215-20111101-1503.jpg from John Erickson
22:10:54 <davemc> PhilA: prize for sustainable cool outcome
22:11:10 <davemc> PhilA: transparent
22:11:37 <davemc> PhilA missing piece is a  the tower of blocks to represent the linked data can bring to the world
22:11:59 <bhyland> q+ I have some lego pics uploaded ...
22:12:14 <davemc> john: looks like a factory, combo of different people
22:12:38 <davemc> john: one is robotic, industrial strength linked data
22:13:14 <davemc> john: has targets, automated conversion.  web and spiders to find/provide data
22:13:51 <davemc> john: guided conversion from the Wizard.  the semantification of the content
22:14:19 <davemc> john: automation workflow semantic to automated via guided models
22:14:40 <davemc> john: last guy represents quality control.  however it is done
22:14:51 <bhyland> olyerickson: It takes careful consideration to "semantify" content.  Edward Scissorhands doing automated semantication… but quality control is necessary.  In RPI's experience, they do unit testing.
22:15:13 <bhyland> olyerickson: "It's not magic.  It takes time to do it right."
22:15:16 <davemc> john: doing LD right is  not magic, just takes time to do in production
22:15:22 <Zakim> -bdhandspicker
22:15:37 <gdick1> gdick1 has joined #eGov
22:15:48 <PhilA> davemc: Mine is small. We have to deliver on any environment
22:15:56 <PhilA> ... lots of elements built on what we have now
22:16:09 <PhilA> ... there's a bridge between IT and the people
22:16:19 <bhyland> no image to go with this commentary?
22:16:23 <PhilA> ... there are steps and ramps. It has to be built bit by bit
22:17:04 <PhilA> davemc: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:IMG00216-20111101-1505.jpg
22:17:20 <PhilA> davemc:  inter connected is OK but we need guidance
22:17:38 <PhilA> ... quite often we need to translate. The language we speak is understood by no one
22:17:49 <Zakim> +sandro.a
22:17:58 <PhilA> ... last guy is a geek. He has a tie and a propeller on his head. Someone has to actually do the work
22:18:20 <PhilA> ... last element is a remote arm that goes off and fetches things from wherever - unstructured
22:18:26 <bhyland> got it. I will note with my GLD WG hat on … this is not 4 star linked data … nothing links to it, not even the wiki home page :-( "No pages link to http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:IMG00216-20111101-1505.jpg.
22:18:26 <bhyland> "
22:18:39 <PhilA> Jeanne: I forgot a piece with multiple flags to represent internationalisation
22:18:45 <Frank> Frank has joined #egov
22:18:58 <bhyland> Lego has been used as a metaphor in presentations by several prominent advocates of semantic technology.  
22:18:59 <bhyland> Lego is a beautiful example of infinite interoperability because it is based on a standard interface. 
22:18:59 <bhyland> Some examples from my basement created by my son who turns 14 years old today.
22:19:01 <bhyland> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:AMH_Lego_castle_and_town.jpg
22:19:05 <bhyland> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:AMH_Lego_turret.jpg
22:19:09 <bhyland> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:AMH_Lego_mixed_food_table.jpg
22:20:31 <Zakim> -Sandro
22:20:59 <davemc> bhyland describing lego pics created by her son
22:21:36 <davemc> bhyland: "if everybody cooperates and shoots in the same direction, it's an unstoppable force" bhyland son
22:21:58 <davemc> bhyland: mixed date interoperable:  unending lego sets intermixed
22:22:53 <davemc> bhyland: as long as the pieces are all the same interop, they all fit together.  There are similarities to open data
22:23:35 <davemc> bhyland : humble URI == legos
22:23:54 <Jeanne> Impressed by Bernadette analogies, her son's amazing Lego skills, and the cleanliness of her home!
22:24:05 <davemc> bhyland: lego world competition == hackathon
22:24:22 <davemc> bhyland where lego has been, the web is going
22:25:27 <davemc> john: lego is investing in community, and following community. fostering open source via Mindstorm. LD needs to grow and foster community
22:25:30 <bhyland> s/humble URI == legos/humble URI == lego "Automatic Binding Bricks" and tight tolerance to get the famously satisfying "click" sound.
22:26:45 <davemc> john: if lego was just separate things. it wouldn't be as cool. Fitting it together things new ways is to cool stuff
22:27:26 <davemc> john: building communities are important to Lego.  Communities evangelize the world and make it grow.  GLD needs similar
22:27:30 <bhyland> olyerickson: If all Lego was a bunch of special interest components, it wouldn't  have penetrated the imagination of children & adults globally (I paraphrase).  In the Gov't Linked Data world, it is important to capture the imagination (evangelize).
22:28:07 <davemc> Jeanne: appreciates the willingness to approach things differently.  (applause)
22:28:12 <Jeanne> Questionnaire is to share facts and figures, insights and lessons learned between open data portal managers
22:28:26 <Jeanne> Questionnaire https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGVwNXM3T3FxRzRrN3cyRTFaaURYblE6MQ 
22:28:49 <davemc> Jeanne: posting to the wiki; the open data portal mgmt questionnaire
22:29:08 <davemc> Jeanne: survey into state of practice
22:29:48 <davemc> Jeanne: response will help give us real-world data.
22:30:12 <davemc> Jeanne: questionnaire is still work in progress, but finalizing soon
22:30:58 <davemc> john: where will it go?
22:31:26 <davemc> Jeanne: lots of places.  organic growth and spread.
22:31:43 <davemc> Jeanne education and outreach is next, after 5 minute break
22:32:09 <gdick1> gdick1 has left #eGov
22:32:31 <Jeanne> For next discussion on Education and Outreach...
22:32:32 <Jeanne> What are the best no-cost/low-cost ways to:
22:32:40 <Jeanne> Initiate government and public interest in an open data site?
22:32:46 <Jeanne> nerate interest in an existing open data site?
22:32:52 <Jeanne> Generate interest in an existing open data site?
22:32:58 <Jeanne> Engage with developers?
22:33:05 <Jeanne> Communicate to the public about open data?
22:33:10 <Jeanne> Find and identify apps and uses of open data?
22:33:45 <Zakim> +bdhandspicker
22:41:16 <Jeanne> Li Ding worked as a research scientist at RPI and asked that we let people know about http://tw.rpi.edu/ogk2011
22:42:04 <PhilA> scribe: Phila
22:42:14 <PhilA> Topic: Education & Outreach
22:42:25 <Jeanne> Social Business Jam at W3C next week:  http://www.w3.org/2011/socialbusiness-jam/
22:42:58 <PhilA> John: I wanted to revisit what I showed yesterday... how to convert and publish gov data as LD
22:43:23 <PhilA> ... we've been serving as an educators doing mashathons in DC etc.
22:43:45 <PhilA> ... also make sure that our portal is an education instrument unto itself
22:43:55 <PhilA> ... we have a variety of tutorials and demos
22:44:00 <PhilA> ... cross linked to tutorials
22:44:14 <PhilA> ... lots of examples of queries one could use against our SPARQL endpoint
22:44:38 <PhilA> ... trying to show the kind of examples that the community needs
22:44:52 <davemc> pointer from John is http://logd.tw.rpi.edu/
22:45:28 <PhilA> John: At this point - yes we need tools to reach different stakeholder
22:45:34 <PhilA> ... yes we need professionals doing gthe work
22:45:40 <PhilA> ... we need the eductaional materials
22:45:53 <PhilA> ... the books that Dave Wood and co have produced are good of course
22:46:04 <PhilA> ... we need thing that people can tweak and break etc
22:46:18 <PhilA> ... need to provide the resources that people can use as templates and apply
22:46:26 <PhilA> ... also have to get out and do the evangelism still
22:46:54 <olyerickson> olyerickson has joined #egov
22:46:56 <PhilA> ... I want to put our example out there and then talk about other examples that we know about
22:47:12 <PhilA> ... there are LD camps, hackathons, meetups etc
22:47:19 <PhilA> can we make a laundry list of things we need
22:47:35 <betehess> betehess has joined #egov
22:47:50 <PhilA> olyerickson: as part of our efforts we've been asked to potentially go abroad next year to help 'a country' bootstrap its work
22:47:57 <betehess> betehess has left #egov
22:48:07 <PhilA> ... there's an intersection between a govt and pro players and the educational community
22:48:21 <PhilA> ... it's about this pub/priv partnership
22:48:26 <davemc> +1 to comment on public-private partnership
22:48:52 <olyerickson> PhilA: can offer some perspectives on that 
22:49:04 <PhilA> PhilA:  Can I draw your attention tohttp://w3techcourses.com/
22:49:10 <PhilA> PhilA:  Can I draw your attention to http://w3techcourses.com/
22:49:58 <davemc> zakim, who is here?
22:49:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, tpac, Kevin_Simkins, Sandro, bdhandspicker
22:49:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see olyerickson, davemc, chsiao, Jeanne, PhilA, rigo, RRSAgent, Zakim, kevinsimkins, bhyland, edsu, trackbot, sandro
22:52:12 <PhilA> http://www.w3techcourses.com/course/view.php?id=6
22:52:47 <olyerickson> PhilA showing example of w3c mobile web course
22:52:56 <davemc> PhilA: talking about online courses
22:57:55 <davemc> PhilA: do we want a GLD type course
22:58:12 <davemc> bhyland: probably (longer discussions)
22:58:59 <davemc> olyerickson: we need easier access, the burden must not be harder than blogging, and data similar
22:59:09 <davemc> olyerickson: cn't require a server
22:59:56 <davemc> bhyland: we agree.  must be as easy as blogging. requires push up for data or app
23:00:36 <davemc> olyerickson: advice given to undergrads that they steer to blogging sites that allow mash ups
23:00:58 <davemc> PhilA: this is a deeper off line conversation
23:02:16 <davemc> PhilA: lots of online courses, but has great item is the discussion forums.  The question students ask is how to keep the connections alive
23:02:56 <davemc> PhilA: discussing course items.  Big item is how do we keep the community alive
23:04:03 <Zakim> -bdhandspicker
23:04:14 <davemc> olyerickson: hackathons similarly need preservation of artifacts. how do we preserve the unique builds?
23:05:10 <davemc> PhilA: amazing how many web devs have no web presence
23:05:55 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #egov
23:06:17 <PhilA> davemc: setting up a forum is a piece of cake
23:06:33 <PhilA> davemc: if you want a space to stor/share code - ask github
23:07:09 <PhilA> davemc: same thing in real world classes - you need somewhere to build the community
23:08:06 <PhilA> olyerickson: including a doscussion with the project is important as that itseld becomes educational
23:08:23 <PhilA> olyerickson: hosting cool javascript apps is easy cf. linked data hosting
23:10:01 <PhilA> olyerickson: what I don't want to lose touch with is all the aother stuff like the community directory that bhyland was showing us
23:10:11 <PhilA> ... we need a livign breathing hub of the community
23:10:28 <PhilA> ... needs instructors, experts of licensing etc.
23:10:42 <PhilA> davemc: that's a status achievement model
23:11:00 <olyerickson> q+
23:11:03 <PhilA> ... you get the licensing guru, the SPARQL guru etc
23:11:30 <PhilA> davemc: Look at ADC. Something like 6 million members. But is' not open
23:11:40 <PhilA> ... it's where you go to reach the people
23:11:57 <PhilA> ... dunno what the modern version of slashdot it
23:12:17 <PhilA> ... we have about 3 people who run the 6 million community of 6 million
23:12:26 <PhilA> ack olyerickson
23:12:41 <PhilA> olyerickson: you need to have someone that is fired if the community doesn't form
23:13:02 <PhilA> davemc: Adobe always have evangelists who see themselves as members of the community
23:13:26 <kevinsimkins> Stage 3D, previously codenamed "Molehill," is a new method/model of 2D and 3D rendering developed by Adobe and supported with a new Stage3D API—a set of low-level GPU-accelerated APIs enabling advanced 2D and 3D capabilities across multiple screens and devices
23:13:27 <Jeanne> Slides for upcoming discussion:  http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:W3C_eGov_3.pptx
23:13:30 <PhilA> olyerickson: We've all been part of this LD discussion. It's a noisy and unreliable source
23:13:48 <PhilA> olyerickson: it's not a great way to get a problem solves, especially if you're a newbie
23:13:56 <tlr> tlr has joined #egov
23:14:30 <kevinsimkins> These Adobe driven APIs provide advanced 2D and 3D developers with the flexibility to leverage GPU hardware acceleration for significant performance gains.
23:14:45 <PhilA> davemc: need to know the problem we're trying to solve
23:15:24 <PhilA> bhyland: the value proposition is that developers can readily merge datasets from multiple datasets
23:15:33 <PhilA> davemc: that's the solution. What's the problem
23:15:59 <Jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to invite data journalists to the group
23:15:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-122 - Invite data journalists to the group [on Jeanne Holm - due 2011-11-08].
23:16:05 <PhilA> bhyland: well the problem is if the data is in different formats with no common key etc. if you work with properly modelled datasets you can take datasets and merge them
23:16:20 <PhilA> davemc: again, that's a solution...
23:16:47 <PhilA> davemc: Apple says I want to build a really cool music player
23:16:56 <PhilA> ... Ives says it mustn't have more than 4 buttons
23:17:47 <PhilA> bhyland: I'd say that as a dev being able to merge the data is a solution to a real problem
23:18:10 <PhilA> davemc: I need problems like why do I even need to merge the data. What's the app
23:18:45 <Jeanne> Hadley--we are just ready to start that.  Joining us?
23:18:55 <HadleyBeeman> Yep, I"m on my way.
23:19:08 <PhilA> bhyland: So here's the problem. A senator wrote to several agencies asking them to get together so they could find out why there appeared to be a helth issue around a brownfield site
23:19:25 <PhilA> davemc: that's a real problem
23:20:01 <PhilA> bhyland: I think there are many real world problems that can be solved more easily given the availability of the data in a common format
23:20:28 <PhilA> olyerickson: The kind of problem that outreach needs to master is...
23:20:47 <PhilA> ... imagine a very agile developer, such as Matthew Bloch of the NYTimes
23:21:05 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #egov
23:21:11 <PhilA> ... he's one of a small team of contract developers that uses a variety of gov data but they don't use LD
23:21:33 <PhilA> ... we could probably help people like that
23:22:39 <PhilA> Jeanne: can we reach a conclusion?
23:22:55 <PhilA> olyerickson: This has been good. Training is interesting
23:23:29 <PhilA> ... we need to move forward. See how we can get the tutorials re-purposed. How can we leverage those.
23:23:50 <PhilA> ... secondly, there's an issue of resources. LD needs hosting of data
23:24:03 <PhilA> ... poss hosting of applications, in browser tricks
23:24:04 <Jeanne> Also see some of the education pieces we are pulling together for at Data.gov: http://www.data.gov/story/datagov-in-the-classroom
23:24:46 <PhilA> ... thirdly, the value of the Mobile Web course is the forum ..> the persistence of artefacts etc
23:25:06 <PhilA> Jeanne: showing page from data.gov
23:25:16 <PhilA> ... I'm not just thinking of formal education
23:25:29 <PhilA> ... page shows universities using data.gov, exemplars etc.
23:25:50 <PhilA> ... I was talking to a uni whose students are doing mashups on data.gov this week
23:26:39 <PhilA> ... we've tried to put some pieces together. Working with agencies that do outreach
23:27:17 <bhyland> I recorded the memorable open gov't portal exercise, see http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4-Lego-Modeling
23:27:44 <PhilA> Jeanne: One thing to cover that has come up here and before - use cases x 3
23:27:45 <bhyland> I just couldn't leave those priceless comments & Lego configurations without *linking* to them :-)
23:28:16 <PhilA> Jeanne: we may leverage the directory... if there were artifacts and use cases, can we include them in the directory?
23:28:32 <PhilA> bhyland: I think we could do that and it's a great suggestion
23:28:44 <PhilA> ... we don't want people to blather on about how wonderful they are
23:28:54 <PhilA> ... we may link to places where they can say how cool ehty are
23:29:13 <PhilA> ... being able to sort use cases based on the facet function
23:30:31 <Zakim> -bhyland
23:30:35 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
23:30:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see tpac, Kevin_Simkins, Sandro
23:30:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see HadleyBeeman, tlr, olyerickson, davemc, Jeanne, PhilA, rigo, RRSAgent, Zakim, kevinsimkins, bhyland, edsu, trackbot, sandro
23:31:04 <PhilA> olyerickson: I think we've addressed the E&O issue
23:31:43 <PhilA> olyerickson: what is the awareness of data among people?
23:32:06 <PhilA> davemc: people make mashups all the time
23:32:33 <PhilA> ... can we describe the possibility of using data so that data awareness follows (not sure I captured that properly)
23:33:01 <PhilA> Jeanne: If I'm Proctor & Gamble and I describe a product, I may only want to target investors etc.
23:33:30 <PhilA> ... as governments, we have a responsibility to make our data accessible and help them to use it
23:33:40 <PhilA> ... governments are different
23:33:54 <PhilA> ... budgets etc. mean we need to be careful about what expectations we set
23:34:50 <PhilA> olyerickson: targeting developers is like targeting HTML developers. WE need to give people that have something to say with data the tools to do it
23:35:14 <PhilA> ... David Schute (?) has an almost pedagogical approach
23:35:30 <matthewy> matthewy has joined #egov
23:35:42 <PhilA> ... we should perhaps try and reach people like bloggers who wante to say something
23:36:05 <PhilA> ... most people couldn't care less how it works
23:36:06 <olyerickson> The portal I mentioned: http://www.datamasher.org/
23:36:20 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: If we do our job properly, the rest of the world doesn't need to know we're here
23:36:32 <olyerickson> The professor at Temple Univ (Fox Business School): David Schutt
23:36:38 <PhilA> Topic: Planning for next year
23:37:25 <PhilA> Jeanne: summarises the CARDS, shows thoughts of the keynote speakers from Warsaw
23:37:53 <chsiao> chsiao has joined #egov
23:38:53 <PhilA> Jeanne: These slides are on the wiki (I can't find the link...)
23:39:26 <PhilA> ... and the slides are a good summary of what Jeanne is saying of course
23:39:31 <olyerickson>  Correction: David Schuff
23:39:31 <olyerickson> Course : http://community.mis.temple.edu/mis5101sec401f11/
23:41:03 <PhilA> Jeanne: Cards and Actions #1 use cases
23:41:11 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: we have some sub-categories there
23:41:38 <PhilA> ... if we structure it properly then our wiki can be an easy way for people to add thoughts as they occur
23:42:00 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: we could have a hashtag for Twitter and then aggregate them
23:42:14 <PhilA> olyerickson: I'd like to hear more from the people that aren't here
23:42:31 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: we have hundreds on the mailing list but few here
23:42:39 <PhilA> ... so there's more interest
23:42:51 <PhilA> ... we need to try and focus our efforts to engage more of the community we have
23:43:32 <PhilA> olyerickson: I'd like to figure out how to get input from the various governments that are represented in the 90 or so catalogues that we know about (CTIC has a similar number)
23:43:41 <PhilA> ... ,ost of them only publish 1 start data
23:44:04 <PhilA> s/,ost/most/
23:44:21 <PhilA> Jeanne: I know the names of the people whose works we show on data.gov
23:45:36 <PhilA> Jeanne: My suggestion is that we have a task for the team, figuring out a recommendation for how to approach this.
23:46:10 <PhilA> ... ie. work out how to gather and encourage the creation of use cases
23:46:50 <PhilA> ACTION: Jeanne to Convene a small team to develop an immediate and long term mechanism for collection use cases
23:46:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-123 - Convene a small team to develop an immediate and long term mechanism for collection use cases [on Jeanne Holm - due 2011-11-08].
23:47:36 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Long term I think we'll need to work out how to deliver those use cases back to the governments and others
23:48:23 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman: specifiically, in which conversations they'll be useful.
23:48:28 <PhilA> olyerickson: We got policies there, I was thinking of impediments. The barriers that practitioners face. Policies are one example but there might be tech barriers or barriers to understanding. These are the kind of theing that E&O can address
23:48:58 <PhilA> davemc: resources, knowledge base etc.
23:50:07 <PhilA> olyerickson: Giving people the ability to make progress
23:50:22 <PhilA> ... we don't have a set of best practices around dcat
23:50:38 <PhilA> ... there's nothing to show governments around the world how to do it
23:51:19 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Each of the differnet groups that we talk to needa a different story
23:51:27 <PhilA> ... sometimes it's about the tools
23:51:35 <PhilA> ... other times it's about democracy etc.
23:52:11 <PhilA> Jeanne: one of the things could be a way to ask a question to whaich the answer is a use case
23:52:25 <PhilA> davemc: It comes back to what do the end users want. What can they do with it
23:52:38 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: we're not responding to market demand. We're creating it
23:52:54 <PhilA> davemc: Who are we selling to?
23:55:50 <Jeanne> Action: HadleyBeeman Create a way of organizing and analyzing use case content to take back to governments and other stakeholders by 2012-01-15
23:55:50 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - HadleyBeeman
23:56:10 <Jeanne> Action: Beeman Create a way of organizing and analyzing use case content to take back to governments and other stakeholders by 2012-01-15
23:56:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-124 - Create a way of organizing and analyzing use case content to take back to governments and other stakeholders by 2012-01-15 [on Hadley Beeman - due 2011-11-08].
23:57:03 <PhilA> TOPIC: CARDS and ACTIONS on Social Media
23:59:57 <PhilA> olyerickson: If the 'W3C kit' card was mine (probably was) . W3C has huge kit of recommendations. We don't have a way to assess quality yet. Same issue arises in eScience
23:59:59 <davemc> zakim, who is here?
23:59:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see tpac, Kevin_Simkins, Sandro
00:00:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see chsiao, matthewy, HadleyBeeman, tlr, olyerickson, davemc, Jeanne, PhilA, rigo, RRSAgent, Zakim, kevinsimkins, bhyland, edsu, trackbot, sandro
00:00:20 <PhilA> ... we have students working on provenance and quality, How to assess quality
00:00:28 <PhilA> ... and make assertions about quality
00:00:39 <PhilA> ... not a lot of work to crowd source info on it
00:00:54 <PhilA> ... not a lot on data quality being in the eye of the beholder
00:01:09 <PhilA> ... most of the work on data quality os supply side, not demand side
00:01:46 <PhilA> ... people have asked whether data has certain characteristics
00:02:21 <PhilA> ... Talis has done some work on showing that it's not quantity, it's quality
00:03:04 <PhilA> ... work needs to be done on these issues
00:03:22 <PhilA> ... need to cnnect with people like Stephen cresswell who is on the Prov WG
00:03:30 <Jeanne> Action: bhyland Explore the augmentation of the GLD Directory project to support some aspects of this 2011-12-15
00:03:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-125 - Explore the augmentation of the GLD Directory project to support some aspects of this 2011-12-15 [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2011-11-09].
00:03:44 <PhilA> olyerickson standards emerging for eScience may not be applicable
00:10:59 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We shouldn't create a repository we don't have time to maintain
00:16:44 <Jeanne> Action: Jeanne  Share the eGov IG members’ social networks (to be assigned to eGov co-chair TBD) by 2012-1-15
00:16:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-126 -  Share the eGov IG members’ social networks (to be assigned to eGov co-chair TBD) by 2012-1-15 [on Jeanne Holm - due 2011-11-09].
00:17:16 <davemc> davemc has joined #egov
00:17:35 <Jeanne> Action: Dave McAllister Create a way of organizing and analyzing social media policies to identify commonalities 2012-03-15
00:17:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-127 - McAllister Create a way of organizing and analyzing social media policies to identify commonalities 2012-03-15 [on Dave McAllister - due 2011-11-09].
00:22:20 <Jeanne> Action:  PhilA Identify the proper W3C parties that would be part of exploring the solutions to making apps developed from open data sustainable 
00:22:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-128 - Identify the proper W3C parties that would be part of exploring the solutions to making apps developed from open data sustainable  [on Phil Archer - due 2011-11-09].
00:22:38 <Jeanne> Sandro--we are assigning some items, you're coming up!
00:22:57 <sandro> oops, gotta go.  :-P
00:23:12 <olyerickson> Thanks sandro!
00:29:51 <chsiao> chsiao has joined #egov
00:30:06 <Jeanne> Action: sandro Identify other activities in the W3C that could inform or be recipients of requirements from the eGov IG 2012-04-01
00:30:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-129 - Identify other activities in the W3C that could inform or be recipients of requirements from the eGov IG 2012-04-01 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-11-09].
00:30:49 <Jeanne> Action:  kevinsimkins Identify activities in the IEEE that could inform the eGov IG by 2012-01-2
00:30:49 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - kevinsimkins
00:31:10 <Zakim> -Sandro
00:31:14 <Jeanne> Action: Simkins Identify activities in the IEEE that could inform the eGov IG by 2012-02-01
00:31:14 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Simkins
00:37:22 <Jeanne> Action: Jeanne Change frequency and perhaps time of meetings to better accomodate broad participation
00:37:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-130 - Change frequency and perhaps time of meetings to better accomodate broad participation [on Jeanne Holm - due 2011-11-09].
00:38:13 <davemc> close
00:38:17 <davemc> davemc has left #egov
00:38:45 <Jeanne> Action: Jeanne Invite additional industry/commercial participation in the IG
00:38:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-131 - Invite additional industry/commercial participation in the IG [on Jeanne Holm - due 2011-11-09].
00:44:46 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
00:44:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-egov-minutes.html PhilA
00:48:14 <Zakim> -Kevin_Simkins
00:48:29 <Zakim> -tpac
00:48:30 <Zakim> SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM has ended
00:48:32 <Zakim> Attendees were bhyland, tpac, Sandro, Kevin_Simkins, bdhandspicker
00:49:00 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
00:49:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-egov-minutes.html PhilA
00:50:24 <PhilA> meeting: eGov IG Face to Face
00:50:37 <PhilA> chair: Jeanne Holm
00:50:45 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
00:50:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-egov-minutes.html PhilA
00:51:14 <PhilA> PhilA has left #egov
00:55:58 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #egov
01:22:44 <olyerickson> olyerickson has joined #egov
# SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC.  DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW.  SRCLINESUSED=00001080