Chatlog 2010-04-15 Data Catalog Vocabulary
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<sandro> Guest: Paul (PaulZH) Hermans <sandro> Guest: Peter Krantz <sandro> Guest: Rufus Pollock <sandro> Guest: Kate Geyer <sandro> Guest: David James <sandro> Guest: Libby Miller <sandro> Guest: Luigi Montanez <sandro> Chair: cygri <sandro> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/2010-04-15 <sandro> Present: brand, edsu, george, martin_spain, cygri, sandro, vassilios # Can't do the real list with guests....! <sandro> Present: brand, david_james, edsu, george, geyer, luigi, martin_spain, paul, krantz, cygri, rufus, sandro, vassilios 00:07:07 <mib_biqt5f> mib_biqt5f has joined #egov 00:32:22 <cygri> cygri has joined #egov 00:36:03 <mib_t9aq18> mib_t9aq18 has joined #egov 15:06:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov 15:06:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/15-egov-irc #15:06:52 <LuigiMontanez> Oh duh, I'm from Sunlight ;) #15:06:58 <PeterKrantz> member:zakim, who is on the phone? 15:07:07 <LuigiMontanez> The link to Richard's pdf seems to be down #15:07:23 <sandro> LuigiMontanez, what's the name of the other person sharing the phone line with you? #15:07:32 <cygri> luigi, let me look into that #15:07:38 <LuigiMontanez> sandro: David James 15:07:42 <Zakim> + +0122369aacc 15:07:57 <Zakim> +Brand 15:07:58 <sandro> zakim, Sunlight has Luigi Montanez and David James 15:08:02 <Zakim> +Luigi, Montanez, David, James; got it #15:08:06 <PeterKrantz> Hi Rufus 15:08:15 <sandro> zakim, aacc is Rufus 15:08:15 <Zakim> +Rufus; got it #15:08:17 <edsu> heya Rufus! 15:08:37 <cygri> dcat slides, alternative location: http://www.slideshare.net/cygri/dcat-foregovig 15:08:39 <sandro> zakim, Sunlight has Luigi_Montanez and David_James 15:08:39 <Zakim> +Luigi_Montanez, David_James; got it #15:08:47 <edsu> somebody is a fast typer :-) 15:09:14 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 15:09:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see PeterKrantz, cygri, Sunlight, martin_spain, Sandro, Paul, George, kate_geyer, edsu, vassilios, Rufus (muted), Brand 15:09:16 <Zakim> Sunlight has Luigi_Montanez, David_James 15:11:12 <sandro> scribe: Sandro 15:11:19 <sandro> topic: Admin 15:11:33 <sandro> cygri: We're here at this first meeting to talk about data catalog issues 15:12:19 <vassilios> vassilios has joined #egov 15:13:02 <david-james> david-james has joined #egov 15:13:45 <edsu> the wiki sandro mentioned: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Main_Page 15:13:54 <rufuspollock> rufuspollock has joined #egov 15:14:40 <cygri> initially we will use the general email@example.com mailing list. put [dcat] in the subject line 15:14:58 <sandro> topic: Introductions -- Who is Here 15:16:10 <sandro> some information about people here: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary#Participants 15:16:23 <sandro> Richard Cyganiak from DERI 15:17:17 <PeterKrantz> Hi! 15:17:19 <sandro> ... we dont have a data catalog ourself, but we've done a survey and produced the dcat vocabylary as a starting point 15:17:26 <PeterKrantz> My mike seems to be broken 15:17:30 <PeterKrantz> I can hear you all 15:17:33 <sandro> Peter Krantz 15:17:39 <PeterKrantz> Ok I do it on IRC 15:17:46 <PeterKrantz> ? 15:17:55 <sandro> Luigi_Montanez, David_James from Sunlight 15:17:58 <edsu> PeterKrantz: please type your intro into IRC yes 15:18:29 <sandro> david-james: we're working on a "national catalog" a catalog of catalogs. we did a blog post a few weeks ago. loose process; we'd like to collaborate. 15:18:32 <LuigiMontanez> http://wiki.sunlightlabs.com/Government_Data_Catalog_Guidelines 15:19:03 <sandro> LuigiMontanez: see link about to our work here, on govts in US. ideas on good data catalogs. 15:19:32 <edsu> martin_spain: are you on mute? 15:19:34 <sandro> Martín Álvarez ( martin_spain from CTIC ) 15:19:39 <sandro> zakim, who is muted? 15:19:39 <Zakim> I see no one muted 15:19:41 <martin_spain> can you hear me? 15:20:00 <martin_spain> i'll try to recall 15:20:16 <Zakim> -martin_spain 15:20:42 <Zakim> +martin_spain 15:21:42 <martin_spain> http://datos.fundacionctic.org/sandbox/catalog/index.html.en 15:21:53 <martin_spain> http://datos.fundacionctic.org/sandbox/catalog/catalogos.rdf 15:22:18 <sandro> Peter Krantz from Sweden 15:22:23 <PeterKrantz> Ok, I run the opengov.se website. It is based on an open source catalog http://code.google.com/p/opengov-catalog/ where I implemented metadata using Dublin Core / FOAF / RDF (see example item here: http://pastie.org/921360). It is carried over an Atom feed (http://www.opengov.se/feeds/data/). I am currently on parental leave from the Swedish eGovernment delegation. 15:23:43 <sandro> George Thomas, US Dept of Health and Human Services, work with us data.gov 15:23:59 <sandro> Kate Geyer, massachusetts govt 15:24:04 <kate_geyer> I work on the Massachusetts, US data datalog http://wiki.state.ma.us/data. We have no metadata standards implemented here 15:25:10 <sandro> Ed Summers, US Library of Congress. I work on a repository dev team, managing data assets within LoC. I'm also interested in encouraging making data.gov more harvestable. 15:25:50 <david-james> can you speak up? 15:25:59 <vassilios> Vassilios Peristeras 15:26:01 <sandro> Vassilios Peristeras, DERI, I do eGovernment at DERI 15:26:18 <PeterKrantz> Yes 15:26:23 <david-james> Yes we can hear 15:26:48 <sandro> Rufus Pollock okfn.org 15:27:08 <PeterKrantz> See http://www.ckan.net/ 15:27:11 <sandro> being used for data.gov.uk and other places 15:27:42 <sandro> rufus: we've already done a lot on this, made world.ckan.net trying to follow dcat spec 15:27:43 <PeterKrantz> http://world.ckan.net/ 15:28:09 <sandro> rufus: big RDF triplestore with data.gov.uk + ckan data. (this is not really released yet.) 15:28:24 <PeterKrantz> A sample dataset item: http://world.ckan.net/ckan.net/data/openaerialmap 15:29:12 <sandro> Brand Niemann at US EPA 15:29:55 <david-james> Did someone get the links that Brand mentioned? 15:30:04 <PaulZH> Paul Hermans 15:30:07 <sandro> Paul .... working for Dutch Gov't as contractor, using Void, want to use dcat soon. 15:30:49 <sandro> cygri: Great group of people, very happy to have you all here. 15:31:05 <sandro> topic: Who Else Should Be Here? 15:32:15 <sandro> sandro: Rufus, are you representing data.uk.gov folks here? 15:32:37 <sandro> rufus: Pretty much; we run the catalog back end. 15:33:00 <sandro> rufus: Will is currently traveling and so he can't be on the call right now. 15:33:30 <sandro> edsu: What about Australia? Maybe the timezone problem is too great. 15:34:08 <sandro> peter: some folks in norway 15:35:06 <sandro> cygri: Anyone have contacts with Australia or NZ folks? 15:35:31 <george> @david-james http://epaontology.wik.is/ and http://semanticommunity.net/ are Brand's sites related to this - i think these are the ones he mentioned today... 15:36:20 <libby> libby has joined #egov # tracker doesn't know about Rufus yet 15:36:51 <sandro> ACTION: Rufus contact data-catalog folks in Australia to make sure they know about this group 15:37:08 <edsu> libby: hey, are you on the call? 15:37:11 <sandro> topic: Preparing presentations of existing work 15:38:00 <sandro> cygri: Maybe we can get mailing list postings, with examples, and some brief presentations from folks who've done related work here? 15:38:10 <sandro> cygri: I can do dcat 15:38:25 <sandro> ... ctic Martin? 15:38:35 <sandro> martin_spain: Sure, I can do that. 15:39:40 <sandro> cygri: For Au? 15:39:41 <sandro> q? 15:39:53 <sandro> ack david-james 15:41:05 <libby> no sorry edsu, my irc client automatically joined 15:41:10 <libby> libby has left #egov 15:41:37 <sandro> sandro: this is not a "Working Group", we're trying a lighter-weight, less formal process here. 15:42:18 <sandro> cygri: Want to present next time, Rufus? 15:42:54 <sandro> rufus: "what do you call a dataset"? scovo? dc terms? void dataset? 15:43:23 <sandro> rufus: Many of the VOID datasets (packages) that get registered are not yet, and may never be in RDF. VOID is oriented to RDF data sets. 15:43:41 <PeterKrantz> void dataset definition: http://rdfs.org/ns/void/html#Dataset 15:43:44 <sandro> rufus: We took mostly dublin core, with a few bits from scovo 15:43:58 <PeterKrantz> "A dataset is a collection of data, published and maintained by a single provider, available as RDF on the Web, where at least some of the resources in the dataset are identified by dereferencable URIs." 15:44:24 <sandro> rufus: As data catalogs get richer, this will change. what ministry produced this? what geographic regions does it cover? it will go beyond DC 15:44:50 <sandro> rufus: In the world.ckan.net we've kind of adopted dcat, which inherits from VOID, which is a bit of an issue. 15:45:28 <sandro> rufus: dcat's great; most of the complex issues are stuff that dcat quite rightly punts on. 15:46:02 <sandro> ... lots of different ways of describing geographic regions; which one do you ask people to add to their datasets when putting it into the system...? 15:46:32 <sandro> cygri: Yes, this relationship between dcat and void should probably not be there. 15:47:07 <sandro> cygri: To what extent should we review existing work like Dublin Core, VOID, SKOS, ...? 15:47:24 <george> +1 15:47:26 <PeterKrantz> +1 15:47:29 <kate_geyer> +1 15:47:29 <edsu> +1 15:47:30 <PaulZH> +1 15:47:34 <vassilios> +1 15:47:37 <martin_spain> +1 15:47:39 <sandro> sandro: +1 15:48:34 <sandro> cygri: I'll do dcat, martic ctic, rufus on ckan, who can do the others...? 15:48:42 <edsu> q+ to suggest talking about relation to feed syndication 15:48:47 <sandro> cygri: I'll do void 15:48:58 <sandro> ack edsu 15:48:58 <Zakim> edsu, you wanted to suggest talking about relation to feed syndication 15:49:30 <sandro> edsu: maybe Tom Baker from DC should be here? He could come talk about it. 15:49:35 <sandro> edsu: I can talk about SKOS 15:50:01 <sandro> cygri: PeterKrantz what about yours? 15:50:08 <david-james> david-james has joined #egov 15:50:11 <sandro> PeterKrantz: Mine's pretty much DC 15:50:22 <PeterKrantz> http://pastie.org/921360 15:50:37 <sandro> PeterKrantz: Here's an example of how we're doing it. 15:51:46 <sandro> cygri: Licensing is also something to talk about..... 15:52:25 <sandro> cygri: I'll see if I can find a volunteer to present on the AU work. 15:53:29 <martin_spain> http://risp.asturias.es/catalogo/index.html 15:53:46 <sandro> martin_spain: Here's the catalog we developed 15:53:58 <sandro> martin_spain: We're using VOID 15:54:55 <martin_spain> http://risp.asturias.es/catalogo/empleo/oferta-formativa.rdf 15:54:59 <sandro> cygri: You're doing the data as well as the catalog in RDF? 15:55:03 <sandro> martin_spain: yes 15:55:50 <edsu> e.g. http://risp.asturias.es/catalogo/empleo/oferta-formativa.rdf 15:56:12 <sandro> cygri: When underlying data is available as RDF, then you can use VOID. 15:56:51 <edsu> q+ to suggest sunlight folks talk about their effort too http://wiki.sunlightlabs.com/Government_Data_Catalog_Guidelines 15:57:13 <sandro> cygri: Can we get summary, with relevant pointers, and an example, on the mailing list, and 3-5 minutes presentations at next meeting? 15:57:32 <edsu> +1 15:57:34 <PeterKrantz> +1 15:57:36 <martin_spain> +1 15:57:39 <PaulZH> +1 15:57:44 <sandro> sandro: +1 15:57:55 <sandro> ack edsu 15:57:55 <Zakim> edsu, you wanted to suggest sunlight folks talk about their effort too http://wiki.sunlightlabs.com/Government_Data_Catalog_Guidelines 15:58:46 <sandro> edsu: Relationship between data catalogs and syndication feeds 15:58:55 <PeterKrantz> +1 (see Atom) 15:58:57 <sandro> ... so you can see what's changing 15:59:05 <george> +1 edsu 15:59:08 <LuigiMontanez> +1 edsu 15:59:23 <david-james> I agree with Ed about the importance of feeds 15:59:33 <edsu> http://groups.google.com/group/dataset-dynamics 15:59:43 <PeterKrantz> I have experimented with RDF over Atom feeds for this. 16:00:24 <sandro> edsu: cygri you work with michael hausenbaus who is working on dataset-dynamics. maybe they could come and talk about what they are trying to do, with an eye to the Note on dcat taking about how to layer this metadata into a feed. 16:01:00 <sandro> cygri: Sounds good. I see people interested in this. 16:01:22 <sandro> cygri: Main thing for next meeting is to reach understanding on scope. 16:02:01 <sandro> ... i'm coming from having done dcat and shown it to egov ig, and we're trying to get it onto a broader base. but of course this will be largely shaped by what everyone wants to do. 16:02:22 <sandro> ... synchronizing updates does seem to be important 16:02:35 <sandro> ... next meetings, let's see if we can reach consensus on deliverables and scope 16:02:58 <PeterKrantz> Aggregation of data sets will probably be a use case involving data set metadata. 16:03:38 <sandro> ... Sandro and I talk about it, and drafted an initial proposal, 16:04:25 <sandro> rufus: when I spoke with Will, we were clear we wanted to collaborate, to have something concrete on the ground that everyone can contribute to, with world.ckan.net, as a group thing. 16:04:35 <sandro> rufus: running code is one of the best ways to test ideas 16:04:41 <PeterKrantz> +1 16:04:43 <david-james> Are we moving toward wrapping up? 16:04:48 <sandro> cygri: Great to hear. 16:04:55 <sandro> david-james, yes 16:06:12 <sandro> sandro: same logistics for call in upcoming weeks. 16:06:37 <sandro> cygri: when we understand the scope, we can figure out better how many calls to run 16:06:47 <vassilios> could we move the meeting earlier fro the australian delegates? 16:06:55 <sandro> cygri: Exciting to be working with all of you. 16:07:07 <LuigiMontanez> thanks cygri and edsu 16:07:07 <Zakim> -Brand 16:07:10 <PeterKrantz> bye 16:07:12 <Zakim> -Sunlight 16:07:14 <Zakim> -Sandro 16:07:14 <david-james> Thanks! Looking forward to it 16:07:14 <Zakim> -martin_spain 16:07:15 <Zakim> -Rufus 16:07:16 <Zakim> -edsu 16:07:17 <edsu> cygri++ 16:07:18 <martin_spain> bye 16:07:18 <Zakim> -kate_geyer 16:07:19 <Zakim> -PeterKrantz 16:07:21 <Zakim> -George 16:07:23 <Zakim> -Paul 16:07:25 <Zakim> -vassilios 16:07:25 <sandro> not really, vassilios -- the time is quite constriained in various ways. 16:07:34 <kate_geyer> kate_geyer has left #egov 16:07:40 <vassilios> ok, thanks 16:07:42 <Zakim> -cygri 16:07:43 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(LD TECH)10:00AM has ended 16:07:45 <Zakim> Attendees were cygri, +1.202.955.aaaa, martinSpain, Sandro, martin_spain, George, +1.617.619.aabb, Paul, edsu, PeterKrantz, vassilios, kate_geyer, +0122369aacc, Brand, Luigi, 16:07:52 <Zakim> ... Montanez, David, James, Rufus, Luigi_Montanez, David_James # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000206