Chatlog 2009-09-30

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<sandro> Guest: Todd Vincent
<sandro> Scribe: Bennett
<sandro> Chair: Sheridan
12:53:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
12:53:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-egov-irc
12:53:42 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #egov
12:53:47 <sandro> zakim, this wil be egov
12:53:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this wil be egov', sandro
12:53:54 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov
12:53:54 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
12:58:28 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started
12:58:35 <Zakim> + +1.202.651.aaaa
12:59:14 <Daniel_Bennett> aaaa is Daniel Bennett
12:59:17 <Zakim> +johnlsheridan
13:00:35 <Zakim> + +1.202.441.aabb
13:00:39 <Daniel_Bennett> note Daniel is in noisy coffee house. I will stay on mute and type. (chance I may need to leave at 10am)
13:00:54 <Zakim> + +1.410.992.aacc
13:01:05 <Daniel_Bennett> hi Joe
13:01:12 <Daniel_Bennett> remind Joe to go on IRC
13:01:46 <Daniel_Bennett> and that way he can send links
13:02:18 <Daniel_Bennett> thanks John
13:02:21 <Zakim> + +1.303.748.aadd
13:02:43 <Zakim> +Brand
13:04:02 <Zakim> - +1.303.748.aadd
13:04:08 <Zakim> + +1.859.408.aaee
13:04:09 <Zakim> +Sandro
13:04:17 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
13:04:33 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.410.992.aacc (8%), +1.859.408.aaee (83%)
13:04:38 <Zakim> -Brand
13:04:39 <sandro> zakim, drop aaee
13:04:40 <Zakim> + +1.303.748.aaff
13:04:40 <Zakim> +1.859.408.aaee is being disconnected
13:04:41 <Zakim> - +1.859.408.aaee
13:05:03 <joec> joec has joined #egov
13:05:12 <Zakim> +Brand
13:05:21 <sandro> Hey +1-859-408 person -- you were causing LOUD static on the line.
13:05:23 <Daniel_Bennett> i miss jose's hold music
13:06:01 <Zakim> +kevin
13:06:30 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
13:06:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.202.651.aaaa, johnlsheridan (muted), +1.202.441.aabb, +1.410.992.aacc, Sandro, +1.303.748.aaff (muted), Brand, kevin
13:06:45 <Zakim> + +1.859.408.aagg
13:06:51 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel says hi to Kevin
13:07:05 <Daniel_Bennett> 651 is daniel
13:07:11 <Daniel_Bennett> that's me
13:07:14 <Daniel_Bennett> on mute
13:07:24 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is Daniel_Bennett 
13:07:24 <Zakim> +Daniel_Bennett; got it
13:07:27 <Daniel_Bennett> I did at beginning
13:07:48 <sandro> zakim, aabb is George_Thomas
13:07:48 <Zakim> +George_Thomas; got it
13:08:15 <sandro> zakim, aacc is Joe_Carmel
13:08:15 <Zakim> +Joe_Carmel; got it
13:08:19 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
13:08:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Daniel_Bennett, johnlsheridan (muted), George_Thomas, Joe_Carmel, Sandro, +1.303.748.aaff (muted), Brand, kevin, +1.859.408.aagg
13:08:40 <sandro> zakim, aaff is Brian_Gryth
13:08:40 <Zakim> +Brian_Gryth; got it
13:08:57 <sandro> zakim, aagg is Todd_Vincent
13:08:57 <Zakim> +Todd_Vincent; got it
13:09:05 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
13:09:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Daniel_Bennett, johnlsheridan (muted), George_Thomas, Joe_Carmel, Sandro, Brian_Gryth (muted), Brand, kevin, Todd_Vincent
13:09:13 <Daniel_Bennett> Sandro: asking for phone participants
13:09:25 <Daniel_Bennett> Sandro: reading out roll
13:09:30 <johnlsheridan> unmute me
13:09:37 <sandro> zakim, unmute johnlsheridan 
13:09:37 <Zakim> johnlsheridan should no longer be muted
13:10:13 <Daniel_Bennett> John: first thing on the agenda is the 14th of Nov. any scribe volunteers?
13:10:27 <Daniel_Bennett> John: picks himself... graciously
13:10:49 <Daniel_Bennett> John: that is the 14th of Oct
13:11:29 <sandro> action-1?
13:11:29 <trackbot> ACTION-1 -- Ari Schwartz to open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF -- due 2008-07-02 -- CLOSED
13:11:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/1
13:11:50 <Daniel_Bennett> John: review of open items. please post link to IRC
13:11:53 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/open
13:12:54 <Daniel_Bennett> John: Action 3 and 14 are old. 70 has moved on, first with Keven.
13:13:25 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: original white paper, has been met/superceded by Data.gov response
13:13:43 <sandro> close action-70
13:13:43 <trackbot> ACTION-70 draft white paper closed
13:13:47 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: we have moved on from original
13:13:54 <Daniel_Bennett> John: close 70
13:14:34 <Daniel_Bennett> John: leave 14 open and check on Action 3
13:14:40 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
13:14:50 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: johnlsheridan (4%), Joe_Carmel (9%), kevin (81%)
13:14:57 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: leave Action 3 open. still looking into partnership/etc
13:15:37 <Daniel_Bennett> John: Action 71 was Jose. There is a working draft on HTML5 and RDFa?
13:15:58 <Daniel_Bennett> Sandro: Doesn't know
13:16:17 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: is working on it
13:16:45 <sandro> close action-84
13:16:45 <trackbot> ACTION-84 Support and reach out to other AC reps to encourage support of eGov Charter closed
13:16:46 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: talked with Kevin and will have more next meeting
13:16:54 <Daniel_Bennett> John: closing 84
13:17:24 <Daniel_Bennett> John: Action 89 is still on
13:17:59 <Daniel_Bennett> John: question about attending by Kevin suggested by Sharron
13:18:29 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: about attending TPAC
13:18:41 <Zakim> + +1.404.822.aahh
13:18:41 <Daniel_Bennett> so where does it stand?
13:19:05 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: still on me
13:19:31 <Daniel_Bennett> John: Action 92. reach out to agencies
13:19:40 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: yes, leave it open
13:19:57 <Daniel_Bennett> John: Action 93 on Sandro
13:20:20 <Daniel_Bennett> Sandro: no responses so close Action 93
13:20:45 <Daniel_Bennett> John: leave it open and now push it as item for others to do
13:20:52 <sandro> revise action as: try to get people to use it...
13:20:56 <Daniel_Bennett> John: let's move on to Charter review
13:21:11 <josema> josema has joined #egov
13:21:31 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2009/06/eGov/ig-charter
13:22:01 <Daniel_Bennett> Sandro: can say that it looks good but no official
13:22:12 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: has heard good feedback
13:22:31 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: possibility of getting additional assistance
13:22:37 <Zakim> -Todd_Vincent
13:22:48 <Zakim> +??P30
13:22:53 <Daniel_Bennett> Sandro: we got healthy 15 or so comments on Charter
13:22:55 <josema> zakim, ??P30 is me
13:22:55 <Zakim> +josema; got it
13:23:08 <Daniel_Bennett> John: next steps. internal review in w3c
13:23:21 <Daniel_Bennett> Sandro: next week is now set for review
13:23:35 <josema> agenda?
13:23:42 <Daniel_Bennett> John: any questions on the charter review?
13:23:45 <Daniel_Bennett> silence
13:23:50 <Daniel_Bennett> more silence
13:23:54 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: next IG call: Sep 30, AGENDA: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2009Sep/0028.html
13:24:06 <josema> zakim, who's here?
13:24:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Daniel_Bennett, johnlsheridan, George_Thomas, Joe_Carmel, Sandro, Brian_Gryth (muted), Brand, kevin, +1.404.822.aahh, josema
13:24:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see josema, joec, Zakim, RRSAgent, Daniel_Bennett, johnlsheridan, hughb, sandro, trackbot
13:24:12 <Daniel_Bennett> John: lets move on to next agenda. where do we go on from here.
13:24:29 <sandro> Topic: Where to go from here?
13:24:31 <josema> regrets+ rachel
13:24:43 <Daniel_Bennett> John: in particular within scope of charter
13:25:24 <Daniel_Bennett> John: what would make the participants happy doing?
13:25:45 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: throws something out. at face to face... we talked about best practices
13:26:48 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: call for use cases. compiling them. analysis of uses cases. value add on what gov does.
13:27:04 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: about cataloging the data
13:27:27 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: what is the data that govs actually have and what can be done
13:27:54 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: those are the two things that interest me. 
13:28:34 <Daniel_Bennett> John: most efforts into government data piece. esp. linked data
13:28:57 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: can we go round robin asking folks on the call?
13:29:17 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
13:29:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Daniel_Bennett, johnlsheridan, George_Thomas, Joe_Carmel, Sandro, Brian_Gryth (muted), Brand, kevin, +1.404.822.aahh, josema
13:29:20 <AdamHarvey> AdamHarvey has joined #egov
13:29:46 <Daniel_Bennett> thanks
13:29:57 <Daniel_Bennett> on mute
13:29:59 <Zakim> +AdamHarvey
13:30:10 <Daniel_Bennett> so cant talk
13:30:13 <Daniel_Bennett> ah
13:30:15 <AdamHarvey> Sorry I'm late!
13:30:40 <Daniel_Bennett> I am looking to see finding use cases and comparing to best practices
13:30:54 <Daniel_Bennett> and evaluating according to w3c standards
13:31:21 <sandro> Kevin: EO group includes linked data, but also all the Web 1.0 stuff, including accessibility, etc.
13:31:23 <Daniel_Bennett> and also cataloging use cases with analysis/annotation
13:31:31 <Daniel_Bennett> (reminder on mute)
13:32:11 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
13:32:21 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Daniel_Bennett (35%), johnlsheridan (4%), Brand (90%)
13:32:38 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: how we can get more involved in data.gov
13:32:54 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: especially in approaching Vivek Kundra
13:33:13 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: data.gov effort looking to RDFa
13:34:10 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: reached out and the feedback was that a govt only group. only employees. I stated we are ready to help here at W3C egov.
13:34:13 <johnlsheridan> doesn't the memo say gov is participative?
13:35:52 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: still closed
13:36:23 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: hoping this group can be part. data.gov looks like RDFa positive.
13:36:24 <josema> I believe George referred to this doc with his comments: http://george.thomas.name/omb/HHS_Comments_Data.gov_Conops.doc
13:37:29 <AdamHarvey> Thanks, Jose...
13:38:13 <sandro> (um, who is speaking?)
13:38:25 <johnlsheridan> George
13:38:31 <sandro> (thanks)
13:38:49 <Daniel_Bennett> George: speaking to data.gov
13:39:11 <Daniel_Bennett> George: stated the URL for his comments
13:39:42 <Daniel_Bennett> (who is speaking? please announce yourself before speaking. thanks)
13:40:01 <johnlsheridan> currently it is brand
13:40:23 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: Ontology and data models for government. Brand is leading part of the effort.
13:40:58 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: mentions the conferences next week
13:41:22 <AdamHarvey> Speak up Daniel...
13:41:47 <sandro> Daniel: I'll be speaking at the XBRL+W3C conference next week.  If anyone is interested go to ....
13:42:03 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2009/03/xbrl/cfp.html
13:42:20 <Daniel_Bennett> yes, thanks sandro
13:42:31 <tb> tb has joined #egov
13:42:56 <Daniel_Bennett> and Diane Mueller
13:43:22 <josema> zakim, who's here?
13:43:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Daniel_Bennett, johnlsheridan (muted), George_Thomas, Joe_Carmel, Sandro, Brian_Gryth (muted), Brand, kevin, +1.404.822.aahh, josema, AdamHarvey
13:43:23 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: several folks will be there
13:43:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see tb, AdamHarvey, josema, joec, Zakim, RRSAgent, Daniel_Bennett, johnlsheridan, hughb, sandro, trackbot
13:43:29 <Daniel_Bennett> silence
13:43:34 <josema> john, if you are speaking, you are muted!
13:43:45 <Vagner> Vagner has joined #egov
13:44:14 <Daniel_Bennett> he is on mute again
13:44:18 <Daniel_Bennett> take him off
13:44:21 <johnlsheridan> can you hear me
13:44:24 <josema> ack jo
13:44:30 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
13:44:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see Daniel_Bennett, johnlsheridan (muted), George_Thomas, Joe_Carmel, Sandro, Brian_Gryth (muted), Brand, kevin, +1.404.822.aahh, josema, AdamHarvey
13:44:33 <johnlsheridan> I'll dial back in
13:44:35 <Daniel_Bennett> it says he is muted
13:44:35 <josema> zakim, unmute johnlsheridan
13:44:35 <Zakim> johnlsheridan should no longer be muted
13:45:15 <Zakim> + +49.178.404.aaii
13:45:40 <Daniel_Bennett> John: asking around about participants interest.
13:46:01 <tb> Thomas bandholtz is calling from Germany
13:46:21 <sandro> zakim, aaii is Thomas_Bandholtz
13:46:21 <Daniel_Bennett> Adam: already on ETF. wants to help translate techspeak especially for local govts
13:46:23 <Zakim> +Thomas_Bandholtz; got it
13:46:45 <Daniel_Bennett> John: this is consistent with our efforts
13:46:46 <Zakim> +??P35
13:49:05 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: working on a couple of projects. spending most of time on projects that open gov data involved.
13:50:03 <Zakim> + +1.202.270.aajj
13:50:37 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: we still need to put out W3Cstandards. dealing with proprietary formats.
13:51:54 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: it is complicating the point of open gov data
13:51:54 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: are you chartered to look at cataloging gov looking at standards.
13:51:57 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: a lot of agencies dealing with legacy data.
13:51:59 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: how can we aid agencies with this problem set.
13:52:01 <Daniel_Bennett> we should address those that need 100% solutions for data to be useful vs. those that can just move on with new data.
13:52:16 <Daniel_Bennett> missed. who is speaking
13:52:30 <josema> we are building a number of transformers, but it's hard and most are adhoc due to how legacy data was archived :(
13:53:05 <Daniel_Bennett> Brian: Local govt need esp. help on this. this is my interest with outreach to locals. 
13:54:06 <Daniel_Bennett> John: we have similar issue. my experience does not hire those folks
13:55:56 <Daniel_Bennett> Brian: no money for this work
13:58:19 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: talking about just having raw data. and then allow others to overlay documentation.
13:58:42 <Daniel_Bennett> Brian: lets at least catalog. 
13:59:28 <Daniel_Bennett> how about open sourcing the conversion of gov docs. like recaptcha
13:59:30 <Daniel_Bennett> ?
14:00:18 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: it is possible to do PDF things like include embedded xml and named locations.
14:00:38 <Zakim> -Brand
14:00:49 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: that is not standard practice and does not apply to legacy docs. and adobe looking to Mars Project.
14:01:49 <Daniel_Bennett> Brian: resources lack and IT lack is holding folks back. 
14:02:27 <Daniel_Bennett> Brian: human speak is better than geek speak at getting gov folks to see importance of good data practices
14:03:04 <Daniel_Bennett> John: is there anyone more to speak?
14:05:13 <Daniel_Bennett> ThomasB: Inspire project
14:05:29 <Daniel_Bennett> (missed part due to phone and hard to hear)
14:05:56 <Daniel_Bennett> John: i am on the Inspire project
14:06:20 <Daniel_Bennett> John: looking to this for implementation. 
14:06:24 <sandro> http://inspire.jrc.ec.europa.eu/  Inspire, Spacial Data Infrastructure
14:06:55 <johnlsheridan> it's all very top down
14:07:25 <Daniel_Bennett> ThomasB: project of mashups with Google maps ...
14:09:16 <Zakim> -kevin
14:09:22 <Daniel_Bennett> ThomasB: we are publishing more 
14:09:45 <Daniel_Bennett> ThomasB: from outside of Inspire. see how it can be linked up.
14:10:14 <Daniel_Bennett> John: some of the problems and issues related to the law versus what is possible.
14:10:38 <Daniel_Bennett> John: last call for participants.
14:10:41 <josema> zakim, who's here?
14:10:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Daniel_Bennett, johnlsheridan, George_Thomas, Joe_Carmel, Sandro, Brian_Gryth, +1.404.822.aahh, josema, AdamHarvey, Thomas_Bandholtz, ??P35, +1.202.270.aajj
14:10:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see Vagner, tb, AdamHarvey, josema, joec, Zakim, RRSAgent, Daniel_Bennett, johnlsheridan, hughb, sandro, trackbot
14:10:54 <Daniel_Bennett> Todd: has been lurking this group.
14:11:01 <josema> zakim, aajj is probably Todd_Vincent
14:11:01 <Zakim> +Todd_Vincent; got it
14:11:02 <Daniel_Bennett> Todd: interested in web standards.
14:11:25 <Daniel_Bennett> Sandro: personal interest. help provide with tech stuff.
14:11:31 <johnlsheridan> http://blogs.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/digitalengagement/post/2009/09/30/Calling-Open-Data-Developers-We-need-your-help.aspx
14:12:08 <Daniel_Bennett> John: on issue of linked data.. soft launch of data.gov like service
14:12:20 <sandro> johnlsheridan: We're doing the VERY SOFT launch of the UK equiv of data.gov today.     Preview access on request.
14:12:24 <Daniel_Bennett> John: ask for log in to see
14:12:51 <Daniel_Bennett> John: if you go to link then go to google group
14:12:51 <AdamHarvey> http://groups.google.com/group/uk-government-data-developers/
14:13:52 <josema> zakim, ??P35 is probably vagner
14:13:52 <Zakim> +vagner; got it
14:14:54 <Daniel_Bennett> Vagner: we are developing new stuff for open gov.
14:15:13 <Daniel_Bennett> can you post links Vagner?
14:16:37 <Zakim> -Todd_Vincent
14:17:40 <josema> topic: Legislation and Citations
14:17:40 <joec> http://legislink.org/us
14:17:40 <Zakim> -George_Thomas
14:18:00 <johnlsheridan> People are already building stuff around our legislation API, eg: http://github.com/robmckinnon/legislation-uk
14:18:34 <johnlsheridan> the UK legislation API is at www.legislation.gov.uk - and we're surfacing some RDF too, with more to come.
14:19:27 <Vagner> link to an XML open data project in Brazil: http://projeto.lexml.gov.br/documentacao/resumo-em-ingles
14:19:32 <AdamHarvey> I just got pulled into a meeting,... have to leave.
14:19:38 <Zakim> -AdamHarvey
14:20:20 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: discussing a method of providing links to gov docs including sub/anchored links
14:20:44 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: need to help govt w/ overlay
14:21:35 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel says that having open data, allows overlays like legislink independent of gov. does not keep gov from doing anything.
14:22:27 <Daniel_Bennett> is a value add that can help influence gov. as opposed to current practice of bad data that private firms fix/normalize and then provide expensive access
14:28:08 <Zakim> -Daniel_Bennett
14:29:21 <josema> rrsagent, pointer?
14:29:21 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-egov-irc#T14-29-21
14:30:46 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-egov-minutes.html josema
14:33:33 <josema> [scribe disconnected]
14:33:38 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:33:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-egov-minutes.html josema
14:36:57 <josema> [ADJOURNED]
14:37:27 <Zakim> - +1.404.822.aahh
14:37:29 <Zakim> -Brian_Gryth
14:37:30 <Zakim> -josema
14:37:33 <Zakim> -johnlsheridan
14:37:36 <Zakim> -vagner
14:37:37 <Zakim> -Joe_Carmel
14:37:38 <Zakim> -Sandro
14:37:40 <Zakim> -Thomas_Bandholtz
14:37:41 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
14:37:42 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.202.651.aaaa, johnlsheridan, +1.202.441.aabb, +1.410.992.aacc, +1.303.748.aadd, Brand, +1.859.408.aaee, Sandro, +1.303.748.aaff, kevin, +1.859.408.aagg,
14:37:45 <Zakim> ... Daniel_Bennett, George_Thomas, Joe_Carmel, Brian_Gryth, Todd_Vincent, +1.404.822.aahh, josema, AdamHarvey, +49.178.404.aaii, Thomas_Bandholtz, +1.202.270.aajj, Todd_Vincent?,
14:37:48 <Zakim> ... vagner?
14:37:55 <joec> thanks everyone
14:40:30 <sandro> RRSAgent, make record public
14:47:12 <joec> still here daniel?
16:42:37 <Zakim> Zakim has left #egov
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