14:15:10 <ChrisBeer> +q

14:15:56 <george> kevin: prior agreement for 12/23 meeting?

14:16:10 <george> josema: minutes review - not planned

14:16:14 <josema> chris, is you question about meetings?

14:16:19 <josema> s/you/your

14:16:29 <ChrisBeer> neg - agendum 3 :)

14:16:33 <george> sandro: confirmed minutes no 12/23 meeting

14:16:33 <josema> ok

14:16:40 <sandro> see http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/meeting/2009-11-25#Agenda_adjustments_and_next_meetings

14:16:44 <josema> go mahead

14:16:50 <josema> s/mahead/ahead

14:17:17 <ChrisBeer> I hopefully can offer something here to get through this item quickly. http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/0/27/40826024.pdf - OECD defines Government Data as "Public Sector Information" - "Public sector information" is broadly defined for purposes of this Recommendation as "information, including information products and services, generated, created, collected, processed, preserved, maintained, disseminated, or funded by or for the Government or public institution"

14:17:18 <george> josema: agenda point - discussion of 'open'

14:17:27 <george> george: sigh

14:17:51 <Zakim> + +1.303.748.aaff

14:18:20 <george> josema: chris has provided materials on this subject - josema reading for those not on irc

14:18:40 <ChrisBeer> The recommendation defines in that sense, open as access. If we use those  defs, then we're left with open as in standards, access = access, government data as PSI.

14:18:44 <sandro> zakim, aaff is Brian

14:18:44 <Zakim> +Brian; got it

14:19:29 <ChrisBeer> And we have 30 govs + EU agreeing with the definitions.

14:19:37 <george> josema: solicits comments on cb's oecd doc

14:19:52 <george> george: +1 josema input in prior email thread

14:20:35 <george> kevin: consistency is key

14:21:22 <george> sandro: +1 cb oecd on ogd - thought that wasn't an issue, only lgd

14:21:33 <sandro> sandro: This seems straightforward; I thought it was Gov Linked Data that was more controversial

14:22:12 <george> josema: emphasizing suggested distinction btw open as in gov and open as in data

14:22:18 <ChrisBeer> sorry - I had read it in threads etc that the sticking point seemed to be open as in standards/tech vs open as in policy/access

14:22:50 <josema> chris, let me see if I got you right: you say we should stick to the OECD for the policy side, right?

14:22:57 <ChrisBeer> correct

14:23:09 <josema> ... but that we need to come up with something else for the technical part of it, right?

14:23:12 <george> kevin: response to open as in data controversy - tbl suggests being more 'open' :)

14:23:53 <george> daniel: open open open  - yet another uncontrolled vocab source, wikipedia, see open gov

14:24:12 <george> daniel: concentrate on best practices instead of definitions

14:24:19 <ChrisBeer> going off thomas's issues and hughb's comments, there seems to be confusion as to the two - GLD and OGD/PSI

14:24:26 <josema> the old ISSUE I referred to: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/issues/2

14:24:45 <george> daniel: seems to be +1 with josema on open data thoughts

14:24:55 <ChrisBeer> (personally I understand the distinction no problems)

14:25:06 <josema> ok, thanks

14:25:32 <george> brian: agrees with daniel - def can remain general and allow for different conceptions

14:26:33 <ChrisBeer> allthough most projects may be set well one by one, I am not so happy

14:26:33 <ChrisBeer> about distinguishing OGD (Open Government Data) from GLD (Government

14:26:33 <ChrisBeer> Linked Data) the way you do.

14:26:33 <ChrisBeer> GLD is just one (RDF based) kind  of representing OGD. Other

14:26:33 <ChrisBeer> representations may be based on the named formats of OGD "XML, CSV,

14:26:34 <ChrisBeer> custom data formats, and/or Web APIs". To make this more confusing: RDF

14:26:34 <josema> I remember we also discussed The World Bank and OKF definitions by then, too

14:26:35 <ChrisBeer> may be serialized in a XML syntax, so GLD would be OGD if not serialized

14:26:37 <ChrisBeer> in Turtle?

14:26:39 <ChrisBeer> I would rather distinguish the general strategic topics of OGD in

14:26:41 <george> daniel: inclusive

14:26:41 <ChrisBeer> whatever technical format from the more specific topics related to some

14:26:44 <ChrisBeer> technical pattern.

14:26:54 <george> brian: reuse other def's and work on best prac's

14:27:19 <ChrisBeer> sorry -that was Thomas's post on the issue for the record. Hugh asked it be added to agenda to sort out before discussion on projects went ahead.

14:27:31 <Daniel_Bennett> specifically linking out to all the definitions from many orgs will help people find our best practices and standards

14:28:07 <george> kevin: +2 inclusiveness, whatever works towards that

14:28:10 <ChrisBeer> Daniel +1

14:29:10 <sandro> +1 Nice    "This is the debate people have when they don't want to advance the ball"   :-)

14:29:17 <george> brian: recursive vocab loop keeps us from getting real work done

14:29:48 <george> george: +1 brian/sandro

14:29:53 <ChrisBeer> As far as GLD goes - as I said earlier in channel before meeting. PSI/OGD isn't necessarily linked, but GLD has to be in someway OGD. Hear hear. +1

14:30:16 <george> josema: reviewing Thomas's post provided by Chris

14:30:39 <Daniel_Bennett> fyi. we do not seem to have a presence here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_government

14:31:07 <george> kevin: trouble when we try to distinguish these vaguaries

14:31:40 <george> george: +1 kevin - focus on tech, let the policy wonks worry about 'controlling the messag'

14:32:25 <george> sandro: techies get the difference and don't want this shared concept/term problem to get in the way of that

14:32:26 <sandro> sandro: Sometimes it makes sense to use the Linked Data distinction, when you're focussed on that particular technology.

14:32:37 <george> kevin: wholeheartedly agree sandro +1

14:32:42 <ChrisBeer> @ Daniel - refresh the page

14:33:04 <Daniel_Bennett> way to go Chris

14:33:31 <Daniel_Bennett> but do we need to establish a wikipedia policy?

14:33:33 <george> josema: conclusion - policy side to speak to definitions with inclusive, broad language to achieve it

14:33:34 <Rachel> Yes, agree to adopt standard conventions

14:34:17 <ChrisBeer> (@ daniel - it's a valid link to a page on the topic :) )

14:34:21 <george> daniel: +1 inclusion again

14:34:31 <josema> in fact, this is what we already did: http://www.w3.org/TR/egov-improving/#OGD

14:34:49 <george> george: proving the circular comment :)

14:35:17 <george> josema: provides link to prior egov-ig art that does what is called for

14:35:19 <josema> agenda?

14:35:32 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum

14:35:32 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, josema

14:35:37 <josema> q?

14:35:43 <josema> ack chrisbeer

14:35:49 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum

14:35:49 <Zakim> agendum 4. "reviewing the projects page" taken up [from josema]

<sandro> topic: reviewing the projects page

<sandro> summary: Final comments on [[Projects]] due this weekend; next week we'll send out a signup/survey.

14:35:56 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Projects

José Alonso: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Projects ←

14:36:44 <Daniel_Bennett> (@ChrisBeer - i agree that it is valid and good, but just triggers a discussion i had been hoping we would have re: wikipedia)

Daniel Bennett: (@ChrisBeer - i agree that it is valid and good, but just triggers a discussion i had been hoping we would have re: wikipedia) ←

14:36:44 <george> josema: next agenda point - wiki projects page - reading some input from team

José Alonso: next agenda point - wiki projects page - reading some input from team ←

14:37:23 <ChrisBeer> (@ Daniel - lol - nps )

Chris Beer: (@ Daniel - lol - nps ) ←

14:37:34 <george> josema: not yet fully reviewed, asks sandro's input

José Alonso: not yet fully reviewed, asks sandro's input ←

14:37:56 <george> sandro: not sure if we haven't covered most of these topics

Sandro Hawke: not sure if we haven't covered most of these topics ←

14:38:39 <Rachel> if others volunteer to draft these docs I can review/edit (per ETF mission)

Rachel Flagg: if others volunteer to draft these docs I can review/edit (per ETF mission) ←

14:38:52 <george> josema: deadline given - input received, but not clear what forward path is, next steps, how to prioritize - other than to let volunteers run with it...

José Alonso: deadline given - input received, but not clear what forward path is, next steps, how to prioritize - other than to let volunteers run with it... ←

14:39:01 <Rachel> Daniel did such an awesome job on the last project - I thought that process worked well.

Rachel Flagg: Daniel did such an awesome job on the last project - I thought that process worked well. ←

14:39:03 <george> sandro: speaking for the chairs

Sandro Hawke: speaking for the chairs ←

14:39:23 <josema> daniel, I hope we could discuss wikipedia at the web site agendum, please!

José Alonso: daniel, I hope we could discuss wikipedia at the web site agendum, please! ←

14:39:40 <george> sandro: lots of folks on listerv, not many on the call - hope was that once different projects were clear, we would proceed with a divide and conquer approach to each project

Sandro Hawke: lots of folks on listerv, not many on the call - hope was that once different projects were clear, we would proceed with a divide and conquer approach to each project ←

14:39:46 <Zakim> + +1.410.992.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.410.992.aagg ←

14:40:02 <george> sandro: first pass was to make sure descriptions were clear, would've been nice to have more input

Sandro Hawke: first pass was to make sure descriptions were clear, would've been nice to have more input ←

14:40:24 <george> sandro: with repeated prompts from chairs - not clear we're going to get more input

Sandro Hawke: with repeated prompts from chairs - not clear we're going to get more input ←

14:40:24 <Daniel_Bennett> thanks Rachel

Daniel Bennett: thanks Rachel ←

14:40:51 <ChrisBeer> (FYI am wikipedia editor - happy to work within whatever group thinks best re that, may not be on IRC still for that agendum)

Chris Beer: (FYI am wikipedia editor - happy to work within whatever group thinks best re that, may not be on IRC still for that agendum) ←

14:41:08 <josema> I wonder if we really need to distinguish between GLD and OGD in those areas based on the previous discussion

José Alonso: I wonder if we really need to distinguish between GLD and OGD in those areas based on the previous discussion ←

14:41:18 <george> kevin: +1 sandro - key focus areas suggested, still some areas needing group participants, so goal is more participation - suggestion of 2 more days

Kevin Novak: +1 sandro - key focus areas suggested, still some areas needing group participants, so goal is more participation - suggestion of 2 more days ←

14:41:32 <ChrisBeer> I thought they were perfectly clear - didn't see need to add/expand

Chris Beer: I thought they were perfectly clear - didn't see need to add/expand ←

14:42:24 <Daniel_Bennett> (Joe Carmel had suggested we use Wikipedia as a major focus for output which I think is really good, so your editor expertise and experience will help for the discussion.)

Daniel Bennett: (Joe Carmel had suggested we use Wikipedia as a major focus for output which I think is really good, so your editor expertise and experience will help for the discussion.) ←

14:42:27 <george> sandro: linked data people are wanting to contribute to linked data conversation - all the other 'open' categories are too difuse for their focused effort

Sandro Hawke: linked data people are wanting to contribute to linked data conversation - all the other 'open' categories are too difuse for their focused effort ←

14:42:34 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←

14:42:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see sam, josema, Sandro, Owen, Rachel, George, Vagner, Kevin, Daniel_Bennett, Brian (muted), +1.410.992.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see sam, josema, Sandro, Owen, Rachel, George, Vagner, Kevin, Daniel_Bennett, Brian (muted), +1.410.992.aagg ←

14:42:36 <josema> zakim, aagg is joec

José Alonso: zakim, aagg is joec ←

14:42:36 <Zakim> +joec; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +joec; got it ←

14:43:07 <george> joec: sandro - aren't you also interested in xforming other data to linkeddata?

Joe Carmel: sandro - aren't you also interested in xforming other data to linkeddata? ←

14:43:27 <george> sandro: son - which is it timbl? raw data now, or linked data? (both :)

Sandro Hawke: son - which is it timbl? raw data now, or linked data? (both :) ←

14:43:39 <george> joec: not going to be able to get the gov to create rdf

Joe Carmel: not going to be able to get the gov to create rdf ←

14:43:47 <george> sandro: some parts will, some won't

Sandro Hawke: some parts will, some won't ←

14:43:54 <george> george: +1000 sandro

George Thomas: +1000 sandro ←

14:43:58 <ChrisBeer> which gov ;)

Chris Beer: which gov ;) ←

14:44:10 <george> george: gov is already doing linked data

George Thomas: gov is already doing linked data ←

14:44:25 <OwenAmbur> Would be good to post a link to the projects page on the home page: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Main_Page

Owen Ambur: Would be good to post a link to the projects page on the home page: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Main_Page ←

14:44:25 <george> joec: this group has to address what gov's are doing

Joe Carmel: this group has to address what gov's are doing ←

14:44:32 <Daniel_Bennett> an aside: we should introduce the term "slow government" like the "slow food" movement, a holistic term referring to  food being tasty, sustainably produced, local pref, etc. we should have "slow gov". isnt that what people think already ;-)

Daniel Bennett: an aside: we should introduce the term "slow government" like the "slow food" movement, a holistic term referring to food being tasty, sustainably produced, local pref, etc. we should have "slow gov". isnt that what people think already ;-) ←

14:45:02 <george> sandro: reifies separation idea - if you don't care about rdf, then have a csv discussion

Sandro Hawke: reifies separation idea - if you don't care about rdf, then have a csv discussion ←

14:45:05 <ChrisBeer> +1 owen

Chris Beer: +1 owen ←

14:45:47 <josema> btw, all IG members should have editing access to the whole wiki (if you don't, please talk to Sandro)

José Alonso: btw, all IG members should have editing access to the whole wiki (if you don't, please talk to Sandro) ←

14:46:02 <george> joec: say to gov - put in data controls (be aware of what you're pub'ing, its accuracy), maybe i (joec) doesn't understand the role of the ig

Joe Carmel: say to gov - put in data controls (be aware of what you're pub'ing, its accuracy), maybe i (joec) doesn't understand the role of the ig ←

14:46:22 <george> sandro: suggesting two task forces, not separate ig's

Sandro Hawke: suggesting two task forces, not separate ig's ←

14:47:20 <george> daniel: geeks lose the human readable idea, whether rdf, microformats, html, - makes pitch for xhtml as human readable in open gov push

Daniel Bennett: geeks lose the human readable idea, whether rdf, microformats, html, - makes pitch for xhtml as human readable in open gov push ←

14:47:33 <ChrisBeer> points to eaves.ca - "Can I play with it" - as long as its in *A* linkable format, its good for now - rdf, xml, csv - does it matter in the scope of the IG as long as it's a linkable format?

Chris Beer: points to eaves.ca - "Can I play with it" - as long as its in *A* linkable format, its good for now - rdf, xml, csv - does it matter in the scope of the IG as long as it's a linkable format? ←

14:47:38 <george> rachel: +1 daniel

Rachel Flagg: +1 daniel ←

14:47:52 <george> owen: (could not hear owen)

Owen Ambur: (could not hear owen) ←

14:47:57 <george> brian: +1 daniel

Brian Gryth: +1 daniel ←

14:48:00 <Rachel> Agree w/Daniel - open govt is not just open data, but also ensuring people can understand

Rachel Flagg: Agree w/Daniel - open govt is not just open data, but also ensuring people can understand ←

14:48:12 <ChrisBeer> +1000 daniel

Chris Beer: +1000 daniel ←

14:48:15 <Rachel> not just machine-readable, human-readable is just as important!

Rachel Flagg: not just machine-readable, human-readable is just as important! ←

14:48:26 <george> george: i thought html+rdfa was the big w3c push, over xhtml now :)

George Thomas: i thought html+rdfa was the big w3c push, over xhtml now :) ←

14:48:43 <joec> http://www.gcn.com/Articles/2009/10/30/Berners-Lee-Semantic-Web.aspx#

Joe Carmel: http://www.gcn.com/Articles/2009/10/30/Berners-Lee-Semantic-Web.aspx# ←

14:48:52 <OwenAmbur> XML documents are readily rendered in human readable formats, e.g., PDF, but the reverse is not true

Owen Ambur: XML documents are readily rendered in human readable formats, e.g., PDF, but the reverse is not true ←

14:48:58 <george> kevin: tbl included access point - agrees with brian/daniel/rachel on 'human readable'

Kevin Novak: tbl included access point - agrees with brian/daniel/rachel on 'human readable' ←

14:49:17 <joec> "He said that the use of RDF should not require building new systems,

Joe Carmel: "He said that the use of RDF should not require building new systems, ←

14:49:17 <joec> 	or changing the way site administers work, reminiscing about how many

Joe Carmel: or changing the way site administers work, reminiscing about how many ←

14:49:17 <joec> 	of the original Web sites were linked back to legacy mainframe systems.

Joe Carmel: of the original Web sites were linked back to legacy mainframe systems. ←

14:49:17 <joec> 	Instead, scripts can be written in Python, Perl or other languages that

Joe Carmel: Instead, scripts can be written in Python, Perl or other languages that ←

14:49:17 <joec> 	can convert data in spreadsheets or relational databases into RDF for

Joe Carmel: can convert data in spreadsheets or relational databases into RDF for ←

14:49:18 <joec> 	the end-users. "You will want to leave the social processes in place,

Joe Carmel: the end-users. "You will want to leave the social processes in place, ←

14:49:20 <joec> 	leave the technical systems in place," he said. "

Joe Carmel: leave the technical systems in place," he said. " ←

14:50:16 <Daniel_Bennett>  note: i am not distinguishing HTML + RDFa vs. HTML vs XHTML1.0 vs. HTML5 vs. XML with XSLT vs. etc, just that everything be presented to the humans.

Daniel Bennett: note: i am not distinguishing HTML + RDFa vs. HTML vs XHTML1.0 vs. HTML5 vs. XML with XSLT vs. etc, just that everything be presented to the humans. ←

14:50:33 <george> joec: put tbl quote for folks to review, reiterating point about xforming existing data to get to rdf

Joe Carmel: put tbl quote for folks to review, reiterating point about xforming existing data to get to rdf ←

14:51:06 <george> josema: so where are we? leave the group a couple days more (kevin), separate work streams/areas (sandro)?

José Alonso: so where are we? leave the group a couple days more (kevin), separate work streams/areas (sandro)? ←

14:51:28 <george> kevin: suggest send out one last notice for final deadline before next weeks chairs call

Kevin Novak: suggest send out one last notice for final deadline before next weeks chairs call ←

14:51:49 <ChrisBeer> (Get to work (Chris) ;P )

Chris Beer: (Get to work (Chris) ;P ) ←

14:52:01 <george> sandro: are we hearing concensus around different groups? if the chairs are good to go, fine, but not clear to me

Sandro Hawke: are we hearing concensus around different groups? if the chairs are good to go, fine, but not clear to me ←

14:52:14 <george> kevin: chairs will pull that together

Kevin Novak: chairs will pull that together ←

14:52:37 <george> owen: chairs have others in line to volunteer, chairs ask for specific volunteers

Owen Ambur: chairs have others in line to volunteer, chairs ask for specific volunteers ←

14:52:39 <ChrisBeer> I think time will tell - it may be that some projects meld, and others are identified as needed

Chris Beer: I think time will tell - it may be that some projects meld, and others are identified as needed ←

14:53:21 <george> kevin: conclusion - send out last call - next week chairs call, get concensus on who/what we'll proceed with

Kevin Novak: conclusion - send out last call - next week chairs call, get concensus on who/what we'll proceed with ←

14:53:34 <josema> agenda?

José Alonso: agenda? ←

14:53:47 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum

José Alonso: zakim, take up next agendum ←

14:53:48 <Zakim> agendum 5. "commenting on AU, USA docs" taken up [from josema]

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 5. "commenting on AU, USA docs" taken up [from josema] ←

<sandro> topic: commenting on AU, USA docs

14:54:13 <george> josema: ok - next agenda point - comments on docs released in australian and us gov docs

José Alonso: ok - next agenda point - comments on docs released in australian and us gov docs ←

14:54:45 <george> josema: australia doc 159 pages long - someone on the phone can summarize for today's call? new people on board -

José Alonso: australia doc 159 pages long - someone on the phone can summarize for today's call? new people on board - ←

14:55:01 <george> josema: sent some comments to whitehouse opengov coord via kevin

José Alonso: sent some comments to whitehouse opengov coord via kevin ←

14:55:54 <george> josema: chartered to do this, but deadlines are difficult - australia comment is 12/17 - don't know the us opengov deadline - anyone?

José Alonso: chartered to do this, but deadlines are difficult - australia comment is 12/17 - don't know the us opengov deadline - anyone? ←

14:55:59 <josema> data.gov ideascale: http://datagov.ideascale.com/

José Alonso: data.gov ideascale: http://datagov.ideascale.com/ ←

14:56:23 <josema> the Australian doc: http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/07/draftreport/

José Alonso: the Australian doc: http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/07/draftreport/ ←

14:56:29 <george> kevin: got an email from wh team, but short notice difficult at best to comment

Kevin Novak: got an email from wh team, but short notice difficult at best to comment ←

14:56:38 <george> josema: published links on irc to both docs

José Alonso: published links on irc to both docs ←

14:58:05 <george> josema: group and individual comments were sent to prior us opengov effort

José Alonso: group and individual comments were sent to prior us opengov effort ←

14:58:25 <george> @kevin - did mary provide a us data.gov ideascale date deadline?

@kevin - did mary provide a us data.gov ideascale date deadline? ←

14:58:32 <ChrisBeer> W/r Australia - would like to see a note of support from IG - it's not likely to change but has anyone read it? Or have thoughts on it at all?

Chris Beer: W/r Australia - would like to see a note of support from IG - it's not likely to change but has anyone read it? Or have thoughts on it at all? ←

14:58:44 <OwenAmbur> Australia's "Engage" report is available in StratML format at http://xml.gov/stratml/EG2.xml It contrains 13 goals and associated objectives.

Owen Ambur: Australia's "Engage" report is available in StratML format at http://xml.gov/stratml/EG2.xml It contrains 13 goals and associated objectives. ←

14:58:45 <josema> I wish we had more time to review this kind of things as a group, really!

José Alonso: I wish we had more time to review this kind of things as a group, really! ←

14:58:49 <george> kevin: please note where your position is different or in agreement with the ig

Kevin Novak: please note where your position is different or in agreement with the ig ←

14:59:09 <Daniel_Bennett> note that http://datagov.ideascale.com/ blew an error on signing on with OpenID

Daniel Bennett: note that http://datagov.ideascale.com/ blew an error on signing on with OpenID ←

14:59:22 <george> kevin: please look at the last input from the ig for guidelines in this effort

Kevin Novak: please look at the last input from the ig for guidelines in this effort ←

14:59:31 <josema> daniel, same as our wiki, doh! ;)

José Alonso: daniel, same as our wiki, doh! ;) ←

14:59:45 <josema> agenda?

José Alonso: agenda? ←

14:59:54 <Zakim> -Kevin

Zakim IRC Bot: -Kevin ←

14:59:56 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum

José Alonso: zakim, take up next agendum ←

14:59:56 <Zakim> agendum 6. "web site" taken up [from josema]

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 6. "web site" taken up [from josema] ←

<sandro> topic: Web Site, Wikipedia

14:59:59 <george> kevin: have to leave

Kevin Novak: have to leave ←

15:00:17 <george> josema: next agenda item - website - or, the 'wikipedia' discussion - take it away daniel

José Alonso: next agenda item - website - or, the 'wikipedia' discussion - take it away daniel ←

15:00:28 <george> daniel: props to joe for the idea

Daniel Bennett: props to joe for the idea ←

15:00:53 <george> daniel: looking at finding web tech for egov website, mediawiki wins

Daniel Bennett: looking at finding web tech for egov website, mediawiki wins ←

15:00:53 <OwenAmbur> I'm working on converting the Data.gov CONOPS to StratML format but its goals and objectives are a little difficult to discern

Owen Ambur: I'm working on converting the Data.gov CONOPS to StratML format but its goals and objectives are a little difficult to discern ←

15:01:14 <george> george: (semantic) mediawiki wins - AGAIN! :-)

George Thomas: (semantic) mediawiki wins - AGAIN! :-) ←

15:01:19 <ChrisBeer> (was unsure about kevins comments on last - is there any likely hood of ig comment on australia doc? or ppl will review?)

Chris Beer: (was unsure about kevins comments on last - is there any likely hood of ig comment on australia doc? or ppl will review?) ←

15:02:05 <ChrisBeer> +1 on wiki idea btw - am going to have to run - 2 am here

Chris Beer: +1 on wiki idea btw - am going to have to run - 2 am here ←

15:03:01 <george> daniel: crowdsourcing ig ideas using this to engage with comment site

Daniel Bennett: crowdsourcing ig ideas using this to engage with comment site ←

15:03:08 <josema> chris, no time to build consensus as group, comment was: if you are going to make a comment consistent with the group's consensus, feel free to identify yourself as a group member, if not, just leave it as a personal one

José Alonso: chris, no time to build consensus as group, comment was: if you are going to make a comment consistent with the group's consensus, feel free to identify yourself as a group member, if not, just leave it as a personal one ←

15:03:21 <george> george: not sure i'm getting daniels point here about wikipedia - thought we were talking about ig using mediawiki

George Thomas: not sure i'm getting daniels point here about wikipedia - thought we were talking about ig using mediawiki ←

15:03:58 <Daniel_Bennett> @george- pointing out a coincidence

Daniel Bennett: @george- pointing out a coincidence ←

15:04:24 <george> joec: difficult to find tech info on practices...info is dispersed across the web...everybody goes to wikipedia, so create some wikipedia pages for the ig work

Joe Carmel: difficult to find tech info on practices...info is dispersed across the web...everybody goes to wikipedia, so create some wikipedia pages for the ig work ←

15:04:35 <george> george: okay, i think i'm getting you now...

George Thomas: okay, i think i'm getting you now... ←

15:04:54 <joec> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Joe_carmel/Good_Data_Practices_Related_to_Government_Data

Joe Carmel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Joe_carmel/Good_Data_Practices_Related_to_Government_Data ←

15:05:14 <ChrisBeer> @jose nps - will pass comment to list for review first :) night all

Chris Beer: @jose nps - will pass comment to list for review first :) night all ←

15:05:22 <george> josema: sumarrizing - so the suggestion is that we spend some effort creating/maintaining wikipedia pages that serve as authorititative sources for info relevant to the ig

José Alonso: sumarrizing - so the suggestion is that we spend some effort creating/maintaining wikipedia pages that serve as authorititative sources for info relevant to the ig ←

15:05:45 <george> joec: publishes wikipedia User page example on irc

Joe Carmel: publishes wikipedia User page example on irc ←

15:05:52 <ChrisBeer> (thought - w3c ig user template / image as well?)

Chris Beer: (thought - w3c ig user template / image as well?) ←

15:06:01 <josema> @chris wonderful

José Alonso: @chris wonderful ←

15:06:48 <Daniel_Bennett> use, and we think of our own pages as a staging ground to Wikipedia

Daniel Bennett: use, and we think of our own pages as a staging ground to Wikipedia ←

15:06:56 <ChrisBeer> @jose - will work on such and delivery for next meeting

Chris Beer: @jose - will work on such and delivery for next meeting ←

15:07:19 <george> joec: example - pdf bad for gov (sunlight clay johnson) - instead of saying 'don't use pdf', say how to enhance it, ie. how to link into/out of - but there's *no consolidated place* to get/send info to folks

Joe Carmel: example - pdf bad for gov (sunlight clay johnson) - instead of saying 'don't use pdf', say how to enhance it, ie. how to link into/out of - but there's *no consolidated place* to get/send info to folks ←

15:07:28 <george> george: fractal web - fractal society -

George Thomas: fractal web - fractal society - ←

15:07:32 <ChrisBeer> (wikipedia user template/icon that is

Chris Beer: (wikipedia user template/icon that is ←

15:08:02 <george> joec: elucidating the desire to provide pdf publising best practices

Joe Carmel: elucidating the desire to provide pdf publising best practices ←

15:08:03 <josema> @chris issue is next meeting is on 6 Jan, so after the deadline :(

José Alonso: @chris issue is next meeting is on 6 Jan, so after the deadline :( ←

15:08:37 <Daniel_Bennett> also we can use fragment URLs from wikipedia too (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_government#History )

Daniel Bennett: also we can use fragment URLs from wikipedia too (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_government#History ) ←

15:08:41 <josema> rrsagent, pointer?

José Alonso: rrsagent, pointer? ←

15:08:41 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/12/09-egov-irc#T15-08-41

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2009/12/09-egov-irc#T15-08-41 ←

15:08:45 <george> owen: pdf->xml (hundreds in stratml) things ig should promote xml->pdf as best pract

Owen Ambur: pdf->xml (hundreds in stratml) things ig should promote xml->pdf as best pract ←

15:08:47 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes

José Alonso: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

15:08:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/09-egov-minutes.html josema

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/09-egov-minutes.html josema ←

15:09:09 <george> joec: promotes source doc included with pdf, which alleviates the challenge owen refers to

Joe Carmel: promotes source doc included with pdf, which alleviates the challenge owen refers to ←

15:09:14 <Zakim> + +1.410.975.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.410.975.aahh ←

15:09:40 <Daniel_Bennett>  re: PDF linking see http://legislink.org/ - thanks to Joe

Daniel Bennett: re: PDF linking see http://legislink.org/ - thanks to Joe ←

15:09:45 <george> george: doesn't care about this or see this as something that needs w3c effort on

George Thomas: doesn't care about this or see this as something that needs w3c effort on ←

15:10:29 <george> owen: xml as the way

Owen Ambur: xml as the way ←

15:10:44 <george> joec: but addressing issues with what gov is doing, which is pdf

Joe Carmel: but addressing issues with what gov is doing, which is pdf ←

15:11:22 <george> owen: tool support, native format of ms office

Owen Ambur: tool support, native format of ms office ←

15:11:58 <george> joec: <open><close></close></open>

Joe Carmel: <open><close></close></open> ←

15:12:19 <Daniel_Bennett> @george - like it , cute

Daniel Bennett: @george - like it , cute ←

15:12:28 <george> owen: likes the corel suite of tools because it uses xml

Owen Ambur: likes the corel suite of tools because it uses xml ←

15:12:57 <josema> q?

José Alonso: q? ←

15:13:16 <george> daniel: back to the wiki question, more specifically the use of wikipedia

Daniel Bennett: back to the wiki question, more specifically the use of wikipedia ←

15:13:25 <OwenAmbur> I use both the Corel and the MS suite.  Corel has not been able to keep up w/re support for XML

Owen Ambur: I use both the Corel and the MS suite. Corel has not been able to keep up w/re support for XML ←

15:14:22 <OwenAmbur> To me, the issue is whether this group is willing and able to suggest that it is good practice to author documents in XML format and autotmatically render them in other formats.

Owen Ambur: To me, the issue is whether this group is willing and able to suggest that it is good practice to author documents in XML format and autotmatically render them in other formats. ←

15:15:12 <george> sandro: general use of wikipedia okay, but need to use our own wiki to be authoritative

Sandro Hawke: general use of wikipedia okay, but need to use our own wiki to be authoritative ←

15:15:58 <Daniel_Bennett> +1 Sandro

Daniel Bennett: +1 Sandro ←

15:16:04 <george> sandro: not supposed to but orig info on wikipedi

Sandro Hawke: not supposed to but orig info on wikipedi ←

15:16:14 <george> george: +1 sandro

George Thomas: +1 sandro ←

15:17:32 <george> joec: suggests that w3c needs to be that info dissemination platform for best practices - such as the pdf/xml/pdf examples

Joe Carmel: suggests that w3c needs to be that info dissemination platform for best practices - such as the pdf/xml/pdf examples ←

15:17:33 <george> brian

brian ←

15:17:38 <sandro> +1 it's great to use wikipedia for outreach, for reaching a large audience, and engaging the larger community

Sandro Hawke: +1 it's great to use wikipedia for outreach, for reaching a large audience, and engaging the larger community ←

15:18:14 <josema> zakim, list attendees

José Alonso: zakim, list attendees ←

15:18:14 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Sandro, +1.509.464.aaaa, +1.202.441.aabb, josema, sam, Rachel, George, +55115509aacc, +1.202.731.aadd, Vagner, Kevin, Owen,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Sandro, +1.509.464.aaaa, +1.202.441.aabb, josema, sam, Rachel, George, +55115509aacc, +1.202.731.aadd, Vagner, Kevin, Owen, ←

15:18:15 <george> brian: +1 on use of wikipedia that cites/links back to ig wiki

Brian Gryth: +1 on use of wikipedia that cites/links back to ig wiki ←

15:18:18 <Zakim> ... +1.202.449.aaee, Daniel_Bennett, +1.303.748.aaff, Brian, +1.410.992.aagg, joec, +1.410.975.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.202.449.aaee, Daniel_Bennett, +1.303.748.aaff, Brian, +1.410.992.aagg, joec, +1.410.975.aahh ←

15:18:59 <george> joec: new examples given - grddl, lod, etc

Joe Carmel: new examples given - grddl, lod, etc ←

15:19:26 <josema> agenda?

José Alonso: agenda? ←

15:19:27 <Daniel_Bennett> cites- electronic cites are URLs and URL + fragment ID -- fyi my Embedded Self Cite http://ecitizenproject.org/ideafactory/embedded-self-citations

Daniel Bennett: cites- electronic cites are URLs and URL + fragment ID -- fyi my Embedded Self Cite http://ecitizenproject.org/ideafactory/embedded-self-citations ←

15:19:28 <george> brian: wikipedia as linked data subject ID

Brian Gryth: wikipedia as linked data subject ID ←

15:20:02 <george> george: getting wrist cramps

George Thomas: getting wrist cramps ←

15:20:04 <Daniel_Bennett> is it time for a motion?

Daniel Bennett: is it time for a motion? ←

15:20:12 <george> george: @daniel yes

George Thomas: @daniel yes ←

15:20:20 <josema> ok, ok

José Alonso: ok, ok ←

15:20:21 <Daniel_Bennett> thanks to george for scribe.

Daniel Bennett: thanks to george for scribe. ←

15:20:27 <josema> +1

José Alonso: +1 ←

15:20:33 <hg> +1

Hugh Glaser: +1 ←

15:21:04 <george> brian: wikipedia for auth subject, points to ig wiki for best practice

Brian Gryth: wikipedia for auth subject, points to ig wiki for best practice ←

15:21:54 <george> brian: emp should be on first two task force work

Brian Gryth: emp should be on first two task force work ←

15:23:25 <george> josema: first time discussion of this topic on this call - suggests that joe/daniel disseminate existing/other examples that demonstrate the idea to see what members also like the idea or have opinions or want to help with the idea

José Alonso: first time discussion of this topic on this call - suggests that joe/daniel disseminate existing/other examples that demonstrate the idea to see what members also like the idea or have opinions or want to help with the idea ←

15:23:55 <george> joec: wasn't sure if this was appr for this ig since it's wikipedia

Joe Carmel: wasn't sure if this was appr for this ig since it's wikipedia ←

15:24:14 <george> josema: thinks it's worth ig member discussion, might grow this community as well

José Alonso: thinks it's worth ig member discussion, might grow this community as well ←

15:24:36 <josema> ACTION: joe to send mail to the group about wikipedia ideas

ACTION: joe to send mail to the group about wikipedia ideas ←

15:24:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-94 - Send mail to the group about wikipedia ideas [on Joe Carmel - due 2009-12-16].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-94 - Send mail to the group about wikipedia ideas [on Joe Carmel - due 2009-12-16]. ←

15:25:24 <george> daniel: * is this idea extends what we do on our website - staging ground, outgrowth of wikipedia

Daniel Bennett: * is this idea extends what we do on our website - staging ground, outgrowth of wikipedia ←

15:25:26 <josema> agenda?

José Alonso: agenda? ←

15:25:34 <george> george: interwiki links suggested by daniel?

George Thomas: interwiki links suggested by daniel? ←

15:26:07 <george> george: dbpedia linked data specs for vocab as auth resolution of ogd/lod/lgd/etc

George Thomas: dbpedia linked data specs for vocab as auth resolution of ogd/lod/lgd/etc ←

15:26:09 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum

José Alonso: zakim, take up next agendum ←

15:26:09 <Zakim> agendum 7. "what's going / coming up" taken up [from josema]

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 7. "what's going / coming up" taken up [from josema] ←

<sandro> topic: what's going / coming up

15:26:19 <george> josema: other issues for today - speak now

José Alonso: other issues for today - speak now ←

15:26:36 <george> daniel: us hubbub - get beth to talk to us?

Daniel Bennett: us hubbub - get beth to talk to us? ←

15:27:11 <george> daniel: shoutout to ecitizen launch

Daniel Bennett: shoutout to ecitizen launch ←

15:28:12 <george> george: data.gov isn't a beth noveck thing, this is a different pmo - mary mcaffery is a good place to connect to linda travers (epa) and sonny bhagawolia (doi) cio's that lead this pmo - who have expressed interest in interacting with the group recently, but not followed up

George Thomas: data.gov isn't a beth noveck thing, this is a different pmo - mary mcaffery is a good place to connect to linda travers (epa) and sonny bhagawolia (doi) cio's that lead this pmo - who have expressed interest in interacting with the group recently, but not followed up ←

15:29:01 <Daniel_Bennett> thanks george. was also referring to OGI stuff

Daniel Bennett: thanks george. was also referring to OGI stuff ←

15:29:02 <OwenAmbur> Facebook developers "garage" December 14 in DC: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=211794929514

Owen Ambur: Facebook developers "garage" December 14 in DC: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=211794929514 ←

15:29:03 <george> josema: will send examples from recent event showcasing some of what this group is evangelizing

José Alonso: will send examples from recent event showcasing some of what this group is evangelizing ←

15:29:19 <george> josema: concludes for today - next meeting 1/6/201

José Alonso: concludes for today - next meeting 1/6/201 ←

15:29:27 <george> @josema you're welcome

@josema you're welcome ←

15:29:35 <Zakim> -Brian

Zakim IRC Bot: -Brian ←

15:29:37 <Zakim> - +1.410.975.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.410.975.aahh ←

15:29:37 <josema> [ADJOURNED]

José Alonso: [ADJOURNED] ←

15:29:38 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←

15:29:40 <george> josema: we're ajourned

José Alonso: we're ajourned ←

15:29:41 <Zakim> -sam

Zakim IRC Bot: -sam ←

15:29:42 <Daniel_Bennett> note that SVG is catching on for graphics on web sites

Daniel Bennett: note that SVG is catching on for graphics on web sites ←

15:29:44 <Zakim> -Rachel

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rachel ←

15:29:45 <Vagner> bye

Vagner Diniz: bye ←

15:29:45 <Zakim> -George

Zakim IRC Bot: -George ←

15:29:45 <sandro> Thanks josema !

Sandro Hawke: Thanks josema ! ←

15:29:46 <Zakim> -joec

Zakim IRC Bot: -joec ←

15:29:48 <Daniel_Bennett> ok bye

Daniel Bennett: ok bye ←

15:29:48 <Zakim> -josema

Zakim IRC Bot: -josema ←

15:29:51 <Zakim> -Owen

Zakim IRC Bot: -Owen ←

15:29:58 <Zakim> -Daniel_Bennett

Zakim IRC Bot: -Daniel_Bennett ←

15:30:02 <josema> rrsagent, make minutes

José Alonso: rrsagent, make minutes ←

15:30:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/09-egov-minutes.html josema

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/09-egov-minutes.html josema ←

15:30:15 <sandro> george, there's a problem with some weird characters someone pasted.   I'll fix it now.

Sandro Hawke: george, there's a problem with some weird characters someone pasted. I'll fix it now. ←

15:31:32 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←

15:31:32 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/12/09-egov-irc#T15-31-32

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2009/12/09-egov-irc#T15-31-32 ←

15:32:06 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended ←

15:32:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Sandro, +1.509.464.aaaa, +1.202.441.aabb, josema, sam, Rachel, George, +55115509aacc, +1.202.731.aadd, Vagner, Kevin, Owen, +1.202.449.aaee, Daniel_Bennett,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Sandro, +1.509.464.aaaa, +1.202.441.aabb, josema, sam, Rachel, George, +55115509aacc, +1.202.731.aadd, Vagner, Kevin, Owen, +1.202.449.aaee, Daniel_Bennett, ←

15:32:10 <Zakim> ... +1.303.748.aaff, Brian, +1.410.992.aagg, joec, +1.410.975.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.303.748.aaff, Brian, +1.410.992.aagg, joec, +1.410.975.aahh ←

Formatted by CommonScribe Show Interleaved IRC Text

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This revision (#2) generated 2009-12-09 17:49:18 UTC by 'sandro', comments: None