Chair: Jon Gunderson
Date: Thursday, 25 May
Time: 2:00 pm to 3:30 pm Eastern Standard Time, USA
Call-in: Longfellow Bridge (+1) (617) 252-1038
Chair: Jon Gunderson
Scribe: Jim Allan
Gregory J. Rosmaita
Mickey Quenzer Charles
JG: mr reviewed control & configure, control is set dynamically, configure is set up before, control is short term configure is persistent some want both when a control is set it can become permanent. set parameters before something starts (playback rate in video) mr most check points can be control jg says use control for all, then have configure option in gl10-default user configuration
EH: what is wrong with mr definitions?
DB: mr seems reasonable
JG: people like distinction
DA: important, some things need to be configured. mr analysis was good tl:
DP: if you want both then say both
EH: key thing, if priorities are same, then need to be accurate with priorities. if difference between control and configure priority then match checkpoint priority. would be nice if mr would look at need for control and configure in checkpoints. unease with locking in developers to tightly
JG: control and configure size of text. make it 2 checkpoints? need minimum requirement for priority 1 items 10.7 save in profile (p2) control is p1 configuration is p2 but can be seen as part of 10.7 --last control setting will be saved as configuration
HB: be careful, that last font was not for header but for normal text size.
JG: if setting only header then it should be persistent for headers. don't have a range for control of font sizes. group has tried for other checkpoints.
DA: don't always want last setting
GR: set UA to reuse last setting, or retain old settings,
JG: may be techniques, different OS may need different techniques - ij example of editing initialization file.
DA: what you want with configuration-this is the way I want this to behave, need reset to default, last use may be special case, don't want it to be default automatically.
EH: need many ways to set configuration
HB: in techniques have pointers to style sheets
EH: don't over proscribe what configuration means, unless all agree
DA: looking at priorities, control vs. configure, need to look at individual checkpoints to evaluate. mainly for control and configure are both important
JG: mr identified 3 cp for control and config. size of text, volume control/config size of text both p1?
MR: yes, checkpoint delineates
JG: is it impossible for some users to access content.
MR: p1 for one or the other
JG: p1 for control, need it dynamically config is for things that are difficult
MR: depends on what web authors are doing
GR: cognitive load for control is less than for config
DA: I think its opposite. config is set once and not worry
JG: when set control should be persistent for all pages in session
DA: look at things that require control of, may take 30 minutes to set up
DP: but may never use synthesized speech
JG: 10.7 not impossible
GR: opera persistent control of images don't champion one over the other,
EH: back to 4.1 control and config size of text. both p1
GR: yes, application in real world, config assumes UA source is properly marked up, client side CSS. if marked up differently then personal CSS doesn't affect page, then I need local control.
JG: 4.1 in IE need to use two controls,
JA: IE control font dynamically, but must have "ignore font size" configured
Resolved: Checkpoint 4.1 is p1 for both control and configure.
JG: control configure for audio rate- p1
MR: question for screen reader- have configure for rate, but not dynamic (control) rate
DP: starting to have control for rate.
GR: also starting to have control for punctuation - change dynamically
HB: change in middle of document
GR: yes, if working in IE and note pad, and change
DA: isn't this p2, don't have to have control
DP: talking about rate not punctionation, need quick way to fix rate problems, and a way to make it persistent, need both, so it is p1, config is a global setting, there are times that rate needs to be adjustable quickly depending on the task
JG: webspeak has control of rate, hpr may have control also, both have configure.
GR: not just a blind issue, low vision users, second language people
DA: no problem with control and config
JG: p1 for both control and config audio rate
DP: public ally available speech synthesis, have little or no control. such as Microsoft agent give audio but no control. important that we show developers that control is necessary .
EH: over time we get an understanding about what is a p1, etc. key point is apply same standard across all guidelines, don't front load everything just because we like it. implementation becomes difficult, if can only implement 50% then which are most important
GR: I get lots of requests for setting up user work stations in public settings. lots of people use public terminals, they are looking into ADA compliance, must have control
JG: first level is what is needed by pwd, spent much time working on priorities. few statements about priorities during last call, don't see much trouble with priorities in document. have pretty good consensus.
EH: no problem with p1
HB: reset to default, should that be a technique
JG: user may not have access to that. has been dealt with before. good for technique for public access terminals. Have checkpoints to restore to default 10.7 p2
Resolved:Checkpoint 4.9 is p1 for control and configure
JG: 4.7 config and control audio volume p1
DP: control is p1, similar to reasons for rate
JG: what about hearing impaired
MR: hadn't thought about it. if no text with only speech then it is relevant.
DA: with synthesized speech isn't synthesizer with client.
JG: if using telephone, synthetic speech is in host
EH: control and configure for 4.10 is p1
DA: would set home terminal for something I can hear, public terminal may have default median volume
DP: synthesizers without front end from the author have not control. synth interperts the markup and outputs, if no markup for control of volume then no control.
DA: is an imbedded object
GR: acss have aural properties (lists properties), many things built into w3 spec
JG: control is p1, what about config?
GR: config, most screen readers use sound card cannot set volume through screen reader, must use OS
JG: can control volume through sapi, actual volume is sapi, master control, and manual speaker volume
GR: is this a case where OS control covers all audio control
JG: this is a technique, dependent on OS, control must be accessible
JG: gr is config as important and control
GR: I lean that way
JG: note that for regular audio, 4.8 talks about audio volume (not speech) this is a p2, mr recommended p1 for control and configure. other audio events must have text equivalents
EH: language used in regard to audio, depends on how terms are used. 4.8 audio is a generic term, includes synth. speech
JG: long discussion on this
EH: need to define better, prerecorded vs. synthesized, discuss in exactly
DP: syn. speech is a special case of audio
DA: syn. speech may need special control, different from general audio
GR: control is situational.
JG: is config a p1?
DP: should be same as rate. same situations, need same type of control and config--should be p1
DB: situations where you can configure but not control makes it impossible to use.
JG: if volume is so low that a person with hearing problem cant hear it then can
JG: most systems provide config but not control
DB: talking about UA not AT,
GR: if they choose to do this then these are the parameters
DB: I know it is not hard to do, little uneasy about it being impossible to use thus requiring a p1
JG: it is a present value, was reviewed as a p1, no comments during review process.
DB: I can live with it. not positive that it meets the impossible rule. can imagine many scenarios for all GL that can make all be a p1
JG: many public access computers, allow users to configure. set up a system, so individual profiles follow person around. then can config.
DB: if you log in than your last used profile
DP: if you cant log in then must be able to config/reset values
DB: cant control because you cant hear it
JG: system volume, get back to default value. argue about different situations where config or control is better or more needed. similar to speech playback--volume and rate are important for hearing impairment.
DB: can live with it, move on
Resolved :4.10 control and config p1
rest are p3. also add control and configure to 4.8 as a p2
MR: already a p1 need for text equivalent. must have p2 to control and config audio volume
GR: if have page playing midi file, plays at a volume that cant hear synthesizer. OS control globally controls all volume. ability to control volume should be p1
DP: should be p1
JG: address both now
DA: if config/control speech is p1 then this can be p2
GR: cross reference 4.10 and 4.8 add note "if user agent supports sny speech natively then changes in audio volume should be independent of syn speech volume"
JG: minimum requirement that volume controls are independent.
EH: sounds fine to me
JG: how do I know when I comply. group working on this. 4.8, 4.11 independent control, two type of minimum requirements--provide structured navigation-minimum things are defined, another type is provision of a range - such as change rate
KB joins don't have range for audio (hardware limitations). syn speech playback rate was specified - use default of synthesizer else offer a range
EH: on 4.8 divergence on priorities. p1 control, p2 config.
JG: need action, why 4.8 is p2, check archives
Action GR: why 4.8 is p2, will post to list
GR: recollection, speech is p1 and audio is p2 is for reasons stated, audio overwhelms synth. speech.
EH: need to define that 4.8 is non synth. speech. or audio other than synthesized speech with pointer to 4.10
Action Editors: cross reference 4.8 and 4.10.
Resolved: independent control of synthetic speech and audio volume.
Action Editors: 4.8 indicate non-synthesized speech audio.
JG: combine volume control for audio and synth speech. must have independent control as a minimum
GR: originally 4.8 was turn on and off background audio.
JG: have separate check point for that adopt mr proposal
Resolved: Use the rest of MR proposal for changing the wording of control and configuration checkpoints
Action EH: Propose new definitions of control and configure.
JG: Checkpoint 10.4 currently does not have any clearly identified minimum requirements. Its minimum requires seem to satisified by other checkpoints:
What additional functionality does checkpoint 10.4 add that can be put in a minimal requirement for satisfying the checkpoint? We need just one requirement of a minimal specification to satisfy the checkpoint that is not covered somewhere else.
NOTE: I would modify the minimum requirement of 10.5 to include either single key or modifier + single key for configuration of systems with keyboards. This would generalize 10.5, but still provide the single key functionality for those that want just a single key.
EH: for 10.5 need to describe minimum requirements. so many steps. define functionalities.
JG: all things that need control need keystrokes. part of minimum spec for 10.5
EH: is there language for 10.5 minimum requirements. they are posted for Netscape.
JG: I will look and post something. 10.5 is next issue.
KB: jg turning in 508 comments
EH: are you KB
KB: yes have lots of work