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WAI UA Telecon for December 22nd, 1999


Chair: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wednesday, December 22nd
Time: 12:00 noon to 1:30 pm Eastern Standard Time, USA
Call-in: Tobin Bridge (+1) (617) 252-7000


Agenda

Review Open Action Items

  1. IJ: Review techniques for topic 3.2
  2. IJ: Add clarifying Note to rationale that UAs can turn off control of content even if it passes content off for rendering.
  3. IJ: Send proposal to list related to checkpoint for incremental positioning control in multi-media
  4. IJ: Draft a statement for time of publication, there is no authoritative body that validates claims of conformance
  5. IJ: Refer to ATAG definition of "applicability" and propose to list.
  6. IJ: In glossary, add WHO definition of impairment, disability, and add functional limitation
  7. IJ: Repropose simpler Checkpoint for 1.1
  8. IJ: Repropose the delivery mechanism of conformance statement to allow documentation as an option
  9. IJ: Add access to the "class" attribute of an element to techniques document
  10. IJ: Propose new checkpoint by merging 7.3 and 7.7 to the list
  11. IJ: Propose a technique for using XSL to transform content
  12. IJ: Write Bryan Campbell/Håkon Lie for clarification and David Clark, Mark Novak (cc the list).
  13. JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8.3 to 8.9
  14. JG: Contact Madelaine Rothberg, Marjia, Eric Hanson, Ian send proposal related to multi-media terminology to AU and GL with history and proposal to reconcile any current or potential differences between documents.
  15. JG: I will request the bridge for 5 and 12 January at 12:00 EST for extra conference calls to clear the issues list by early January
  16. DA: Propose rational to explain why deceleration of multi-media is important for users with impairments.
  17. DB: Review techniques for Guideline 5
  18. DB: Ask IE Team about publication of review of IE 5 and Pri 1 checkpoints.
  19. DB: Find out how developers find out which appropriate triggers to use in Windows for using built-in accessibility features (i.e. sound sentry, show sounds, ...)
  20. DP: Propose new Checkpoint 1.5 for access to system messages
  21. DP: Send to the list techniques for how to use and control focus to not have new windows cause problems for usability. In particular, how this will work with ATs.
  22. EH: Refine proposal on the meaning of "synchornized alternatives" to the list.
  23. GR: Take WHO definitions of disability, impairment and functional to the ATAG and GL WGs for consideration in their definitions
  24. GR: Send to the list techniques for how to use and control focus to not have new windows cause problems for usability. In particular, how this will work with ATs.
  25. GR: Write a technique on how to create accessible installation
  26. KB: Update impact matrix based on 5 November draft. Pending
  27. MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media)
  28. MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media)
  29. MK: Write some comments on synchronization in multi-media to the list
  30. MQ: Ask Mark about meaning of comment raised in Issue #167
  31. WC: Take form submission to GL WG to discuss issues related to inadvertent submission.

Announcements

  1. Web Content is rechartering
  2. New telecon weekly day and time for working group start on 6 January 2000
    Thursdays, 2-3:30pm (EST, USA), on Longfellow Bridge (+1-617-252-1038)
  3. Additional telecons to clear last call issues:
    Wednesday, 5 January 2000, 12:00-1:30 EST USA, Longfellow Bridge (+1-617-252-1038)
    Wednesday, 12 January 2000, 12:00-1:30 EST USA, Longfellow Bridge (+1-617-252-1038)

Discussion

  1. Candidate recommendation
  2. LC#138: "Synchronized equivalent" vs. "Continuous Equivalent"/ Proposed split of 2.5
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#138
  3. LC#145: Why is 3.7 Pri 1 and 3.10 Pri 3? (Re: blinking and flashing)
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#145
  4. LC#156: Propose change in priority of 5.6 (P1 -> P2)
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#156
  5. LC#158: Propose priority change (1 to 2) for checkpoint 4.1 (control of font family)
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#158
  6. LC#159: Propose raise priority of 4.13 to Priority 1
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#159
  7. LC#161: Raise priority of 8.8 to P2 (highlighting and identifying selection/focus)
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#161
  8. LC#162: Raise priority of 8.9 (consistency in configs) to P2.
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#162
  9. LC#166: Review priority of 10.5 (default configs that interfere with OS conventions)
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#166
  10. LC#175: Proposed raise (to P1) of checkpoint 4.18
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#175
  11. LC#176: Proposed change in priority (P3 to P2) for checkpoint 8.7 (link information)
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#176

Attendance

Chair: Jon Gunderson

Scribe: Ian Jacobs

Present:
David Poehlman
Kitch Barnicle
Gregory J. Rosmaita
Dick Brown
Mickey Quezner
Madeleine Rothberg
Judy Brewer

Regrets:


Action Items

Completed Action Items

  1. IJ: In glossary, add WHO definition of impairment, disability, and add functional limitation
    Status: Cancelled due to CG decision and UA telecon discussion
  2. IJ: Add access to the "class" attribute of an element to techniques document
    Status: Done
  3. JG: Contact Madelaine Rothberg, Marjia, Eric Hanson, Ian send proposal related to multi-media terminology to AU and GL with history and proposal to reconcile any current or potential differences between documents.
    Status: Done
  4. JG: I will request the bridge for 5 and 12 January at 12:00 EST for extra conference calls to clear the issues list by early January
    Status: Done, see announcements
  5. DA: Propose rational to explain why deceleration of multi-media is important for users with impairments.
  6. DB: Review techniques for Guideline 5
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0573.html
  7. DP: Send to the list techniques for how to use and control focus to not have new windows cause problems for usability. In particular, how this will work with ATs.
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0738.html
  8. EH: Refine proposal on the meaning of "synchornized alternatives" to the list.
  9. Status: Done (refer to WCAG/UAGL thread)
  10. GR: Take WHO definitions of disability, impairment and functional to the ATAG and GL WGs for consideration in their definitions
    Status: Dropped
  11. KB: Update impact matrix based on 5 November draft.
    Status: Handed to IJ. Action IJ to carry this forward.
  12. MK: Write some comments on synchronization in multi-media to the list
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0464.html

Continued Action Items

  1. IJ: Review techniques for topic 3.2
  2. IJ: Add clarifying Note to rationale that UAs can turn off control of content even if it passes content off for rendering.
  3. IJ: Send proposal to list related to checkpoint for incremental positioning control in multi-media
  4. IJ: Draft a statement for time of publication, there is no authoritative body that validates claims of conformance
  5. IJ: Refer to ATAG definition of "applicability" and propose to list.
  6. IJ: Repropose simpler Checkpoint for 1.1
  7. IJ: Repropose the delivery mechanism of conformance statement to allow documentation as an option
  8. IJ: Propose new checkpoint by merging 7.3 and 7.7 to the list
  9. IJ: Propose a technique for using XSL to transform content
  10. IJ: Write Bryan Campbell/Håkon Lie for clarification and David Clark, Mark Novak (cc the list).
  11. JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8.3 to 8.9
  12. DB: Ask IE Team about publication of review of IE 5 and Pri 1 checkpoints.
  13. DB: Find out how developers find out which appropriate triggers to use in Windows for using built-in accessibility features (i.e. sound sentry, show sounds, ...)
  14. DP: Propose new Checkpoint 1.5 for access to system messages
  15. GR: Send to the list techniques for how to use and control focus to not have new windows cause problems for usability. In particular, how this will work with ATs.
  16. GR: Write a technique on how to create accessible installation
  17. MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media)
  18. MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media)
  19. MQ: Ask Mark about meaning of comment raised in Issue #167
  20. WC: Take form submission to GL WG to discuss issues related to inadvertent submission.

New Action Items

  1. IJ: Update impact matrix based on 20 November draft (from KB)
  2. IJ: Include language in "applicability" about portions of checkpoints related to resolution of Issue LC#138
  3. IJ: Follow up on EH's e-mail with some comments from this meeting related to issue LC#138 (will post as new issues if any)
  4. IJ: Verify that "synchronized alternative" not used elsewhere in techniques.
  5. JG: Draft a preliminary implementation report for CR consideration
  6. MR: Run a multimedia player through the guidelines for January.
  7. GR: Run LPPlayer through the guidelines. Verify with Productivity Works.

Minutes

Agenda [1]

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0723.html

Review Open Action Items

1.IJ: Review techniques for topic 3.2
Status: Pending.

2.IJ: Add clarifying Note to rationale that UAs can turn off control of content even if it passes content off for rendering.
Status: Pending.

3.IJ: Send proposal to list related to checkpoint for incremental bpositioning control in multi-media
Status: Pending.

4.IJ: Draft a statement for time of publication, there is no authoritative body that validates claims of conformance
Status: Pending.

5.IJ: Refer to ATAG definition of "applicability" and propose to list.
Status: Pending.

6.IJ: In glossary, add WHO definition of impairment, disability, and add functional limitation
Status: Cancelled due to CG decision.

7.IJ: Repropose simpler Checkpoint for 1.1
Status: Pending.

8.IJ: Repropose the delivery mechanism of conformance statement to allow documentation as an option
Status: Pending.

9.IJ: Add access to the "class" attribute of an element to techniques document
Status: Done.

10.IJ: Propose new checkpoint by merging 7.3 and 7.7 to the list
Status: Pending

11.IJ: Propose a technique for using XSL to transform content
Status: Pending.

12.IJ: Write Bryan Campbell/Håkon Lie for clarification and David Clark, Mark Novak (cc the list).
Status: Pending.

13.JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8.3 to 8.9
Status: Pending.

14.JG: Contact Madelaine Rothberg, Marja, Eric Hanson, Ian send proposal related to multi-media terminology to AU and GL with history and proposal to reconcile any current or potential differences between documents.
Status: Done.

15.JG: I will request the bridge for 5 and 12 January at 12:00 EST for extra conference calls to clear the issues list by early January
Status: Done, confirmed for 5 and 12 Jan.

16.DA: Propose rational to explain why deceleration of multi-media is important for users with impairments.
Status: Done.

17.DB: Review techniques for Guideline 5
Status: Done

18.DB: Ask IE Team about publication of review of IE 5 and Pri 1 checkpoints.
Status: No news. DB will review himself.

19.DB: Find out how developers find out which appropriate triggers to use in Windows for using built-in accessibility features (i.e. sound sentry, show sounds, ...)
Status: Not done.

20.DP: Propose new Checkpoint 1.5 for access to system messages
Status: Not done.

21.DP: Send to the list techniques for how to use and control focus to not have new windows cause problems for usability. In particular, how this will work with ATs. JG will send DP's comments to the list.
Status: done

22.EH: Refine proposal on the meaning of "synchornized alternatives" to the list.
Status: Done (refer to WCAG/UAGL thread)

23.GR: Take WHO definitions of disability, impairment and functional to the ATAG and GL WGs for consideration in their definitions
Status: Dropped.

24.GR: Send to the list techniques for how to use and control focus to not have new windows cause problems for usability. In particular, how this will work with ATs.
Status: Pending.

25.GR: Write a technique on how to create accessible installation
Status: Pending.

26.KB: Update impact matrix based on 5 November draft. Pending
Status: KB: Handed to IJ. Action IJ to carry this forward.

27.MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media)
Status: Pending.

28.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media)
Status: Pending.

29.MK: Write some comments on synchronization in multi-media to the list
Status: Done.

30.MQ: Ask Mark about meaning of comment raised in Issue #167
Status: Pending

MQ: Mark is in Europe...

31.WC: Take form submission to GL WG to discuss issues related to inadvertent submission.
Status: No news.

Announcements

1.Web Content is rechartering

2.New telecon weekly day and time for working group start on 6 January 2000 Thursdays, 2-3:30pm (EST, USA), on Longfellow Bridge (+1-617-252-1038)

3.Additional telecons to clear last call issues:
Wednesday, 5 January 2000, 12:00-1:30 EST USA, Longfellow Bridge (+1-617-252-1038)
Wednesday, 12 January 2000, 12:00-1:30 EST USA, Longfellow Bridge (+1-617-252-1038)

Discussion

LC#138: "Synchronized equivalent" v. "Continuous Equivalent"/ Proposed split of 2.5

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#138

IJ: How does "applicability" apply to parts of a checkpoint? Should we split the checkpoint into smaller pieces (which Eric's proposal suggests)? Propose "the requirement" doesn't apply instead of "checkpoint"?

MR: Or "portion of the checkpoint".

MR: New pieces from Eric:
a) Synthesizing auditory descriptions from text.
b) Collated text transcript (excellent idea!).

You can mix captions and text equivalents of auditory descriptions in a single file and include time codes. But this hasn't been specified yet in a W3C Recommendation. How do we deal with technologies that don't exist yet?

JG: Need to move to PF for technologies that don't exist yet.

MR: I thought the issues that needed to be discussed were: a) How to rewrite UA checkpoint to make WCAG and UAGL fit.

MR: "captions" and "auditory descriptions" are all we have today. May want to generalize.

JG: Or, update the Guidelines when the technology exists.

Resolved:

Action IJ: Follow up on EH's email with some comments from this meeting.

Candidate recommendation

Refer to W3C Process Document description of Candidate Recommendation
http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/Process-19991111/tr.html#RecsCR

JG:
a) Show existing implementations of requirements
b) For that which is not done yet (e.g., DOM for communication of content), need to demonstrate feasibility and value over current techniques. AND/OR
c) Get commitments from AT developers that they will adopt these solutions.

JB: I recommend that the WG try to accomplish these goals in 3-4 weeks. Keep up momentum. Try to move to Recommendation as early as possible.

KB: I think CR is a good idea. Extra work now, but more convincing to developers.

DP: What does CR add to the spec in terms of deliverables?

IJ: Definitely a deliverable. For example, collate existing reviews to show Director what is already implemented. All reports will strengthen our case with the Director.

JB:
a) Talked with Director who supported time frame I proposed.
b) Refer to process document for specific requirements of what the Director expects at each request.

MR: Sounds to me that we need to do an implementation report. If almost all are done, we can claim to be ready.

JR: You may find some documented experience even for the DOM.

MQ: PWWebSpeak doesn't rely on IE DOM.

DP: But JFW might. I know Glen Gordon has spoken to that issue a number of times.

Action JG: Draft a preliminary implementation report.

A look at a potential schedule:
14 January to C.R.
11 February end C.R.
18 February start P.R.
17 March end P.R.
?? April Rec.

DB: From conversations with the IE Team, I think there will be DOM support. But I don't know

KB: What is the role of ATs in this implementation report if the GL are for general-purpose browsers.

GR: Need to show:
a) Browsers are implementing the DOM
b) We were correct in judging that ATs could use the DOM. E.g., what would read-only imply for ATs? (completion of forms, e.g.)

JB: Probably want to ensure that Opera, media player developers, etc. involved in discussions of DOM during CR.

GR: I'm a beta-tester of Opera 4. We have been claiming that you satisfy a lot of requirements by implementing CSS1 and CSS2. It would be good to use CR period to verify this.

GR: Also, use CR period to verify that other user agents besides desktop browsers can use the guidelines.

DP: How does CR get formally announced.

JB: This is new, but:
a) Announce to W3C Advisory Committee
b) Announce to WAI IG
c) Announce by UAGL to targeted community
d) Probably no press release.

GR: (About HAL): I am under the impression that the HAL people want some kind of assurance that the solutions will work before they commit resources.

Action IJ: Verify that "synchronized alternative" not used elsewhere in techniques.

Action MR: Run a multimedia player through the guidelines for January.

Action GR: Run LPPlayer through the guidelines. Verify with Productivity Works.

LC#145: Why is 3.7 Pri 1 and 3.10 Pri 3? (Re: blinking and flashing)

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#145

IJ: I think the current 3.9 is better wording for what 3.7 is saying. Turning off scripts is a technique for stopping content changes.

GR: I don't like the idea of the merge.

MR: Leave scripts as its own requirement since you don't know what ugly things they may do.

KB: Rationale for 3.9:
a) Timing issue for reading content.

Resolved: 3.7 (scripts on/off) Priority 1 to account for ugly behavior that the user agent can't detect.

Action IJ: Repropose 3.9 as a priority 1.


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