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WAI UA Telecon for November 17th, 1999


Chair: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wednesday, November 17th
Time: 12:00 noon to 1:30 pm Eastern Standard Time
Call-in: W3C Tobin Bridge (+1) 617-252-7000


Agenda

Review Open Action Items

  1. IJ: Propose how the conformance checklist will be delivered
  2. IJ: If W3C Comm Team develops a statement related to NFB vs. AOL, keep the UAGL WG informed.
  3. IJ: Review techniques for topic 3.2
  4. JG: Confirm 7 December telecon date with systems people
  5. JG: Review techniques for Guideline 2
  6. JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8
  7. KB: Post information about Easy Access/Infrared technology to list as a proposal for inclusion in the techniques document
  8. KB: Update impact matrix based on 5 November draft.
  9. KB: Review techniques for Guideline 7
  10. RS: Send last call document to IBM's Web Team in Austin.
  11. RS: Review techniques for Guideline 1
  12. JA: Review techniques for topic 3.1
  13. JA: Review techniques for Guideline 3
  14. JA: Review techniques for Guideline 4
  15. MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media)
  16. MR: Review techniques for Guideline 3 (Multi-media)
  17. MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media)
  18. DB: Contact Dave Bolnick about SAMI access.
  19. DB: Review techniques for Guideline 5
  20. DB: Contact person in Windows media group to agree to review last call draft when available
  21. CMN: Review techniques for Guideline 9
  22. CMN: Review techniques for topic 3.6
  23. MQ: Review techniques for Guideline 10
  24. MQ: Find someone from WinAmp, SigTuna to agree to review last call draft when available
    Status: no response
  25. DP: Review techniques for Guideline 11
  26. GR: Review techniques for Guideline 11
  27. GR: Review techniques for topic 3.5
  28. HB: Review techniques for topic 3.3
  29. MN: Contact someone at United Cerebral Palsy to agree to review last call draft when available
    Status: No response
  30. MN: Suggest a last call reviewer at Apple computer
    Status: No response
  31. TL: Get feedback from MS IE Team on usability of 5 October Techniques structure (wait for next draft).

Announcements

  1. Register for F2F meeting at IBM in Austin, TX on December 9th and 10th

Discussion

  1. Add EZ access / AIIP as techniques for checkpoint 1.1 for devices that support only one input method
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0278.html
  2. Other proposals generated by technique review action items
  3. Issue #114: Cross-platform accessibility through recommendation of DOM 2 for access to content by assistive technology
    http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#114

Attendance

Chair: Jon Gunderson

Scribe: Jim Allan

RSVP Present:
Gregory J. Rosmaita
David Poehlman
Harvey Bingham
Mickey Quenzer
Dick Brown
Marja-Riitta Koivunen
Ian Jacobs (joined in progress)
Rich Schwerdtfeger (joined in progress)
Charles McCathieNevile (joined in progress)

RSVP Regrets:
Al Gilman
Mark Novak
Madeleine Rothberg
Kitch Barnicle


Action Items

Completed Action Items

  1. JG: Review techniques for Guideline 2
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0299.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0291.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0292.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0293.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0294.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0295.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0296.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0297.html
  2. JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0322.html
  3. KB: Post information about Easy Access/Infrared technology to list as a proposal for inclusion in the techniques document
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0276.html
  4. HB: Review techniques for topic 3.3
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0286.html
  5. MQ: Review techniques for Guideline 10
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0306.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0307.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0308.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0309.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0311.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0312.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0313.html
  6. RS: Review techniques for Guideline 1
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0328.html
  7. DP: Review techniques for Guideline 11
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0321.html
  8. GR: Review techniques for Guideline 11
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0321.html
  9. JA: Review techniques for Guideline 3
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0324.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0326.html
  10. MQ: Find someone from WinAmp, SigTuna to agree to review last call draft when available
    Status: no response, dropped
  11. MN: Contact someone at United Cerebral Palsy to agree to review last call draft when available
    Status: No response, dropped
  12. MN: Suggest a last call reviewer at Apple computer
    Status: Found Mary Beth Janes, she has agreed to review document
  13. TL: Get feedback from MS IE Team on usability of 5 October Techniques structure (wait for next draft).
    Status: Reviewed guidelines with Ian and Charles during their visit to MS on 11/14 and 11/15

Continued Action Items

  1. IJ: Propose how the conformance checklist will be delivered
  2. IJ: If W3C Comm Team develops a statement related to NFB vs. AOL, keep the UAGL WG informed.
  3. IJ: Review techniques for topic 3.2
  4. JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8
    Status: need finish checkpoint 8.2 to 8.9
  5. KB: Update impact matrix based on 5 November draft.
  6. KB: Review techniques for Guideline 7
  7. RS: Send last call document to IBM's Web Team in Austin.
  8. JA: Review techniques for topic 3.1
  9. JA: Review techniques for Guideline 4
  10. MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media)
  11. MR: Review techniques for Guideline 3 (Multi-media)
  12. MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media)
  13. DB: Contact Dave Bolnick about SAMI accessibility features to include in techniques document and see if he would be willing to review the guidelines.
  14. DB: Review techniques for Guideline 5
  15. DB: Contact person in Windows media group to agree to review last call draft when available
  16. CMN: Review techniques for Guideline 9
  17. CMN: Review techniques for topic 3.6
  18. GR: Review techniques for topic 3.5

New Action Items

  1. JG: Contact David Clark about UCP contact and personal review the guidelines
  2. HB: Send problem statement to the ua list and www-html-editor@w3.org related to table header algorithm
  3. IJ: Bring table header algorithm problem to html wg
  4. GR: Send example of using CSS pseudo element list numbering using content tag
  5. GR: Check if their is a css pseudo class for lang change in document
  6. MRK: Send proposal for configuration options for checkpoint 2.2.3 to the list, GR will help
  7. MRK: to send SMIL examples to the list of problems related SMIL rendering of time-dependent links

Minutes

Review Open Action Items

  1. IJ: Propose how the conformance checklist will be delivered
    Status: pending
  2. IJ: If W3C Comm Team develops a statement related to NFB vs. AOL, keep the UAGL WG informed.
    Status: pending
  3. IJ: Review techniques for topic 3.2
    Status: pending
  4. JG: Confirm 7 December telecon date with systems people we have a bridge, may move depending on w3 staff availability
    Status: done
  5. JG: Review techniques for Guideline 2
    Status: done
  6. JG: Review techniques for Guideline 8
    Status: only to 8.1.1
  7. KB: Post information about Easy Access/Infrared technology to list as a proposal for inclusion in the techniques document
    Status: done
  8. KB: Update impact matrix based on 5 November draft.
    Status: pending
  9. KB: Review techniques for Guideline 7
    Status: pending
  10. RS: Send last call document to IBM's Web Team in Austin.
    Status: pending
  11. RS: Review techniques for Guideline 1
    Status: pending
  12. JA: Review techniques for topic 3.1
    Status: pending
  13. JA: Review techniques for Guideline 3
    Status: done
  14. JA: Review techniques for Guideline 4
    Status: pending
  15. MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media)
    Status: pending
  16. MR: Review techniques for Guideline 3 (Multi-media)
    Status: pending
  17. MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media)
    Status: pending
  18. DB: Contact Dave Bolnick about SAMI access.
    Status: pending
  19. DB: Review techniques for Guideline 5
    Status: pending
  20. DB: Contact person in Windows media group to agree to review last call draft when available
    Status: pending
  21. CMN: Review techniques for Guideline 9
    Status: pending
  22. CMN: Review techniques for topic 3.6
    Status: pending
  23. MQ: Review techniques for Guideline 10
    Status: done
  24. MQ: Find someone from WinAmp, SigTuna to agree to review last call draft when available
    Status: remove, no response from inquires
  25. DP: Review techniques for Guideline 11
    Status: done
  26. GR: Review techniques for Guideline 11
    Status: done
  27. GR: Review techniques for topic 3.5
    Status: done
  28. HB: Review techniques for topic 3.3
    Status: done
  29. MN: Contact someone at United Cerebral Palsy to agree to review last call draft when available
    Status: No response, remove from list

    Action JG: contact Dave Clark at Cast for UCP and personal review.

  30. MN: Suggest a last call reviewer at Apple computer
    Status: done
  31. TL: Get feedback from MS IE Team on usability of 5 October Techniques structure (wait for next draft).
    Status: done

Announcements

1.Register for F2F meeting at IBM in Austin, TX on December 9th and 10th

db- will register soon

mq - will register soon

jg - 8 people currently registered

Discussion

1.Add EZ access / AIIP as techniques for checkpoint 1.1 for devices that support only one input method

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0278.html

jg- wants to withdraw proposal for EZ access pointer, still to early in development, wait for it to be more stable all- no objections

jg- new issue by Rich, cross platform accessibility should be DOM level 2, based on mozilla work and sharing DOM module. Last call issue, it is on the issue list (issue 114)

ij - not sure how it changes current check point, "implement DOM"

jg - rich wants stronger recommendation for DOM2, always provide access to DOM

ij-will look at proposal

jg-reference dom2

ij-dom2 is at last call. difficult to reference in our document

jg-process-review checkpoints

ij-review proposals, rather than open questions

jg- hb 11/14 table tech #286 on the list

hb- table, affect of column spanning on the linearization algorithm, listed problems, no good solutions, implementation problems

jg-can you propose a new algorithm

ij-send task to html wg, they need to fix it, send suggested solutions,

Action HB: sent problem statement to the list and www-html-editor@w3.org

action IJ: bring table problem to html wg

jg- problem has be around for a while, how to communicate to html group

ij-send problem to editor of html working group wwwhtmleditor@w3.org

ij-not a dependency, algorithm is broken,

jg-will review by working group, then forward to www-html-editor@w3.org

ij-cc editor and ua group

hb-raised issue with Dave Raggett 1.5 years ago, no response

Proposal for techniques for checkpint 2.1

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999OctDec/0299.html

jg- Editor note 2.1.1 delete from jg proposal

2.1.2 In a speech based user interface allow the user to navigate letters, words, sentences and other semantic phrases of text content

problem with large screen and horizontal scroll bar, what to do about the text rendering content in the width of the current window, screen readers may only what is in the display window.

ja-if browser reformats loose relationship of information

rs-ie reflows

jg-depends on author coding of page, browser adjusts

mq-other devices may affect screen width

jg-no other graphical browser

2.1.3 add list of requirements.

rs: techniques for GL 1 , aspects of textdrawing calls for legacy screen readers, 2 areas for text drawing, standard device api, talk directly to video buffer, refer back to other sections that relate to this topic.

jg-cross referencing techniques or checkpoints is good, techniques that cross more than one checkpoint should map to Section 3 topical discussions

2.1.4. Provide the user with information about the type of element; for example support the generated content elements of CSS

jg-implement pseudo element and content tag information

Action GR: style pseudo element list numbering with content tag

hb-user needs option for blank or null alt display or notification

ja-may be able to display something for null alt image with css

gr-discussed this on the list, presented proposal

dp-problem gr techniques go against

cmn-wcag display what author specifies as alt text

dp-author may specify nothing resulting in link, link, link

gr-will send again

db-conventions for alt, use null value, proposal will work only if authors cooperate,

jg-this is a p3 in uagl, should this go to html wg

db-no, just need the information

gr-will cross post to wcag

cmn-not for html wg, bad authoring not html

jg-need good example of this for guideline 8

2.1.5. Allow the user to view structured and outlined views of the content to facilitate the identification of topics and structure of the document

**reference checkpoint in gl 8

2.1.6 Provide generated content to indicate structural relationships like table cell header information and which item in a list of items

**reference checkpoint in gl 8 or table topic in section 3, list of items section in gl 4

2.2.1 Allow the user to select their preferred language when rendering audio descriptions....

dp-for voice browsing, hpr has this feature, may be a good example

jg-another checkpoint 2.3 auto change of language may need another techniques

2.2.3 allow user to view/select language tracks, caption tracks (see quick time, and real player) addressed in MRotherberg materials

db-leaves call

maria-render visually

gr- css pseudo element may help with this ja to help

Action GR:css pseudo class for lang change in document

maria - should have user control configure how lang changes are rendered

Resolution: add user control configure how lang changes are rendered to check point 2.2.3

Action MRK: configuration options for checkpoint 2.2.3 may need help, send proposal to list. gr to help

gr-if you implement css you get a lot of stuff for free

Techniques for Checkpoint 2.3 Render content according to natural language identification. [Priority 1]

2.3.1 Automatically change fonts for a user agent rendering content visually

OK, no discussion

2.3.2 Automatically change the language of the voice for a user agent rendering content through speech .

OK, no discussion

2.3.2 When unsupported languages are specified by the author, provide the user with information on the change in language

MRK: It would render it as text

JG: Yes for a user agent that rendered information visually

Techniques for Checkpoint 2.4 Provide time-independent access to time-dependent active elements or allow the user to control the timing of changes. [Priority 1]

2.4.1 Provide a list of static links for time dependent links in a resource

2.4.2 Allow the user to configure the user agent to pause the rendering of time dependent content when time dependent active content changes

Editor: add reference to multimedia stuff

maria-do we have information on imagemaps, in smil can have hot spot links on images videos, need to extract these links for user to activate.

gr-need a no script option in addition to pause, long list on the cast site, a gif is linked to hyper link that is only on the page for 5 seconds

gr-to make an example of this

jg-if smil doc, with links (map element) on image

cmn-required to have alt

maria-in smil you only have title, still time dependency issues

jg-smil doc should be accessible, if links embedded in video, only have title attribute

**bring up next week - smil and hotspot problem

Action MNK: to send SMIL examples to the list of problems related SMIL rendering of time-dependent links

Techniques for Checkpoint 2.6 If a technology allows for more than one audio track, allow the user to choose from among tracks. [Priority 1]

2.6.1 Allow the user to view the currently available audio tracks

OK, no discussion

2.6.2 Allow the user to select from among the currently available audio tracks

JG: refer back to choosing equivalent tracks see 2.3

Techniques for Checkpoint 2.7 When no text equivalent has been specified, indicate what type of object is present. [Priority 2]

2.7.1 If captioning information is not available and captioning is turned on, render no captioning information available in the captioning display window

OK, no discussion

2.7.2 If no ALT text or TITLE text has been provided by the author render the word image with the file name

dp-concerned with checkpoint that says "render nothing"

jg-these should cover that

dp- still a problem with ""

2.7.3 If no TITLE text is available for a FRAMESET element, render FRAME x of y frames or use the TITLE information from the URL referenced by the FRAMESET element

mq-what if there is no title

jg-render frame x of y

gr-get title, if none present then present x of y

hb-any feed back from any outside list

jg-no, will send out reminder to invited reviewers


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