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WAI UA Telecon for September 30th, 1998

Chair: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wednesday, September 30th
Time: 12:00 noon to1:00 pm Eastern Standard Time
Call-in: (+1) 617/258-7910


12:00-1:00 Continuation of Dynamic HTML Discussion started last week


Marja-Riitta Koivunen

Judy Brewer

Scott Luebking

Harvey Bingham

Ian Jacobs

Jon Gunderson


Jim Allan

Kitch Barnicle

Kathy Hewitt

Paul Adelson

Action Items and Conclusions

Jon: Send message

Put SMIL on next weeks agenda, Judy will solicit comments on her e-mail

Invite Arnaud Le Hors (lehors@w3.org) in on discussion of accessibility


Jon: Big issue we have is how people identify which elements have associated events. Event bubbling/dispatching in the scripting models (which differs between NS and MS) complicates accessibility. (Bubbling means that many elements may handle an event, and showing the user each one may be tedious). Thoughts on event handling: - Event handler object.

Ian: Event handling is the realm of the DOM (WG currently discussing this). This group should express requirements to the DOM group.

Jon: Al is doing this for WAI.

Jon: Our questions from UA standpoint: how do we provide feedback to users that there is an event associated with an object?

Ian: Let's distinguish how to find out what objects have events (the DOM) from how to communicate this to the user.

J on: Yes, but not just the DOM. Author markup as well: - No markup at all (rely on global event handler) - HTML "on" attributes. - Event model (e.g., using "id" attributes).

Ian: Also Behavior/Action sheets. Questions:

Jon: Not all scripts have rendering impact. Some just do verifications, for example. Also listener handlers don't make changes, but propagate events upward.

Marja: E.g., memorization of last selected menu option.

Jon: Other e.g., : frame manipulation.

Jon: For example, do we put event information in the tab stops. You can tab through events. Is this overkill (e.g., tab through each paragraph to change color). Or is there a separate access to dynamic HTML events. Problem that many events are mouse-driven. How to translate them to other input methods?

Jon: in terms of UI, how to provide keyboard access, how to notify user?

Scott: depends upon what type of mouse events one is talking about

Jon: One use of scripts is to expand and contract information, provide tool-tip-like function.

Marja: Are we thinking about both visual and audio representations (as well as text)?

Jon: Big problem is deciding which events are important and the user should know about.

/* Discussion of scripting language differences */

Jon: PAGL should indicate that for presentational changes, people should mix scripting and style, not just rely on scripting. (See http://www.w3.org/Style/Group for info about behaviors.) (See http://www.w3.org/Submission/1998/10/ for info about action sheets)

Judy: Post list of key questions with some suggestions/comments to list, get feedback through email and from experts on Dynamic HTML, etc.

Judy: Perhaps talk to Arnaud Le Hors (lehors@w3.org) about this (he's DOM and HTML). Action

Jon: Invite Arnaud to meeting next week. Decide whether for the entire hour, part, etc. (Note that he is in France.)

Judy: We should have a CG meeting about events.

Jon: We should also know when to stop chasing the latest accessibility issue.

Judy: But "Version 1" documents should avoid having big gaps.

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