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WAI UA Telecon for September 2nd, 1998

Chair: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wednesday, September 2nd
Time: 11:00am to 12:00noon Eastern Standard Time
Call-in: +1-617-252-1038


11:00-11:25 Keyboard navigation

11:25-11:55 Table rendering and navigation

11:55-12:00 Action items and plans


Denis Anson
Kitch Barnicle
Harvey Bingham
Daniel Dardailler
Jon Gunderson
Markku T. Hakkinen
Ian Jacobs
Scott Luebking


Action Items and Conclusions

Review Denis AnsonAnson'ss E-mail about chunk navigation

Update working draft guidelines on navigation and table discussion


JG: Denis and Scott on keyboard

Keyboard Access

DA: We need a third concept. Point of regard. Where in the document are we looking

An attention point.

When I read through the document, most of the information is in hunting for information. Keyboard searching. The other concept is browsing. Searching

JG: Does navigate by header by header and hieracichal navigation address this

DA: If you collapse the document by header some of the information information

HB: It would pick up titles

DA: Moving through the document in chunks, some type of block markup. Use control over the size of the chunk the user moves through the document.

HB: Similar to IE directory expansion and contraction

DA: Except that the information does not fad in and out

User feedback to the chunk size

JG: Does this relate to the Web TV approach

KB: Is the chunk relative to the size of the document, what size

DA: How you would indicate the size, not related directly to size. Should be transparent to the user

HB: A query size of block size needs to be set by the user

KB: No matter what block size the could be great distances between blocks

DA: Logical page design would have some concept to distance

Part of heirachical navigation is reducing temporal timing

JG: Timing issues, can you adjust the timing

DA: No way on the macintosh

JG: Daniel and Ian

IJ: There are some logical level: paragraphs and quotes

DA: List items

HB: One of the things available is the document object model to extract logical blocks of information

If he user wants to know what is on this header level they can get information

DA: For the typical information

JG: the other issue

DA: Point of regard

Not just collapsing document to display a certain structure

I think that I suggested for a visual display or auditory display

If my point of regard would be

JG: Give an example

DA: If you use an up paragraph

Some sort of auditory cue for chuck size

When you change chuck size, feedback on chuck size changes

KB: On demand summary information

JG: Screen reader issue

Non mouse users are the main benefit

SL: What are the chunks that user changes

DA: Users need to know what

SL: User needs to know the listing of the tags

Jumping through the page and stopping at each of the tags

Announcements when people transition into forms

I don't know if a chuck approach works for a list

Maybe you need different sets of commands

DA: You move through paragraphs and then enter a list. user could change to list chuck size

SL: Paragraphs inside of lists

HB: Nested blocks of information

SL: What a new block start

When you are navigating through blocks, jumping to bodies of text

DA: Yeh

SL: You want to jump to the end of the list

JG: Concept of blocks of text and graphics The primary need is for people who don't use the mouse.

SL: Could be looked as a scanning method.

DA: I am not a mouse user

SL: I would stay away from the term "not" mouse user

JG: Web TV stuff connected. Level button.

DA: Do you think it would

JG: where are we going

KB: Who does this compare to hierarchical view

different, extension, replacement?

DA: Hunting verses browsing issue

JG: Action Item

Review what Denis has written

Time next week for the chunk navigation

IJ: In current user agent guidelines: element is designed



HB: Comments on current tables

Simplistic table examples, do not deal with spans

Dave ragett is a series of little chunks and that the information is related to it's a position

JG: Any body not seen current guidelines

DA: Serialize tables by rows and columns. Point of regard stays the same and then change rendering of the table by rows and columns

SL: Capabilities to navigate row by row or column by column

DA: If I had a table serialized, would you not scroll the table

HB: Which way to jump and how far

SL: In my test browser I had a jump function

DA: Why would I want to re-render a table. If you are visual you would want to maintain point of regard

SL: Somebody who is visual would not want serialized tables

JG: Learning disabilities

KB: Jumping distance and reading entire rows and columns. Table cells often render cells are on more than one line.

SL: Is this tied into the learning disabled. People who are visually impaired are relying on the table being spoken.

DA: Some people want to combine

HB: Other issues:

Summary information: value of "summary" attribute should be available

The structural part is important

DA: The purpose is something the author needs to do

HB: The structural information can be calculated from the text

Spanning tables

SL: One of the ways you can deal with this is having a span reference.

JG: How does it do that?

SL: Additional information on spanned cells. Keyboard navigation to move and return from spanned cells

Really need to have individual cells for navigation of cells for navigation

JG: Setup a structure

HB: My own rendering has

Internationalization issues

IJ: Internationalization orders?

HB: Are guidelines need to be sensitive to language issues

I would like to have a feature for user to ask for varying levels of cell information.

DA: Cell positioning can captioning information

SL: If you just want to do a serial reading

DA: Tables information be part

JG: Tables using TH and TD

SL: Tables are used for formatting. Tables that are use SPANS and Number of incomplete cells is higher for layout tables. this may

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