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WAI UA Telecon for August 26th, 1998

Chair: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wednesday, August 26th
Time: 11:00am to 12:00noon Eastern Standard Time
Call-in: +1-617-252-1038


11:00-11:25 Review and discussion of table WD Revisions

11:25-11:55 Discussion of keyboard navigation strategies

11:55-12:00 Action items and summary


Jon Gunderson
Kathy Hewitt
Kitch Barnicle
Scott Luebking
Daniel Dardailler
Denis Anson
Harvey Bingham (11:30)


Jim Allan
Markku T. Hakkinen

Action Items and Conclusions

Jon Gunderson will send a corrective message on F2F dates

Kathy Hewitt will talk to Web TV team about human factors research in the Web TV keyboard interface

Review current WD keyboard on keyboard issues and will report back to telecon next week. Keyboard group includes Denis Anson, Scott Luebking, Kathy Hewitt

Next telecon will discuss table rendering and navigation.

Kitch Barnicle: Requested future telecon topic on frames access


JG: Announce the F2F after CTG conference

Announced the weekly telecons

DA: Navigating documents via the keyboard

Concerned about third

Document can be modeled as a tree, but most don't understand

Arrow keys as navigation keys

Meta keys used to define levels of document structure navigation

People would

JG: Selection and focus definitions

Part of we is to define selection and focus

DD: I don't think there is a need to provide more detail

We all ready have keyboard

Documentation should describe the model

Plateform issues makes it difficult to specify certain keys

JG: Hieracherical navigation

DD: I think we should go beyond what we have

SL: One of the things to focus on characters and words may conflict with screen readers. Users may want to use th

DA: How can you navigate eefficiently using screen reader

KB: We still have a blur between assistive technology and the browser

SL: Additional aspect with the arrrow keys when navigating nested list. They want to go to next list or to a sub list

DA: The document tree structure is not what the user thinks about.

SL: How does the user make choices about sub lists and next list items

DA: Use a modified arrow option to go down a sub list

SL: Notion of level may be a difficult concept for some users

Changing levels is confusing

KB: Seems like we are getting to a implementation model

SL: One of the things I though use full, would be a system that would jump from block of text to block of text. The screen reader has difficulty reading from block to block, but good at reading with in a block

DA: Who defines what a block

JG: There are block structure within HTML

DD: There are in-line and block level elements.

DA: What I would like to see, what is a block. If you had a large document, you may want to move through in big chunks. Move at the the level of interest, but all of the elements are visible.

SL: Would people create such large document

KB: We have a block level specification.

DA: When you say expose the entire document

If you display all the information there is context

SL: A header followed by text that there would be greater context.

KB: Concerned about consistancy

KH: We are working on IE 5.0 we will have similar model as the current IE 4.0. I am looking a IE 6.0 keyboard model, using the Web TV model. Authors do not use HTML correctly.

DA: Do we want to encourage correct design?

KH: We need to encourage correct design, but also look at what people are actually doing

SL: One way to look at it to see how people can access what is there.

KH: When you are creating pages I could use <BR> to make blocks.

JG: What about an expanded a search function

SL: Can their be a more abstract concepts, people do not understand structural elements

We could caterize headers and elements in to units that people could understand

DA: It does sort of makes sense, but people don't know element names

SL: A more general concept

DA: Move a page of text

KH: The easiest way is use a page down to move a screen at a time, there may be a way to use page down to move an element at a time

SL: A sighted person may look a pages, but they are looking a paragraphs

KB: There are two issues: Speeding up moving through the pages and reading functional units. When you jump, you lose context.

DA: Need access not to just links, but also content

SL: Some people just want to jump through the links,

JG: Keyboard navigation


Block by block

Poor design

DD: We have keyboard access, moving beyond to implementation

SL: Keyboard access

DA: I was not intending a specific implementation

HB: Would like users to not need to learn a new navigation strategy for each ne browser

SL: There may be no way around that....

HB: I would hate to navigate

JG: We do not want to impose knowledge of HTML

DA: Able bodied persons would use keyboard commands

SL: Usability studies that keyboard is more efficient

DA: Agree, we are not working on just a disability issue. We want to be transparent

User agent be able to interpret commands from 3rd party assitive technology

If the UA by passes standard operating system

JG: We look see if have language I/O APIs

Web TV interface

Move block by block

Search functions

DA: we should pursue

SL: As there any research on Web TV research

KH: There probably is, I can followup

SL: Count, moving by a count

HB: If a list of 17 items, skip or move to?

SL: I was thinking of relative

KB: A user adjustable jump value

JG: Action items

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