21 August 2000 ER Telecon

Summary of action items and resolutions


Using the W3C icon

CR There was a discussion a while ago, about using W3C icons.

LK Since it deals with branding can not modify the W3C icons.

CR You can not have the two icons together as one.

LK Right. If they are on the same page that's fine, but can't join them.

Resolved: You can not modify W3C icons but may use them along side a logo of your design.

Face 2 face

WC Need exact date. PF would like to piggyback and prefer before XML 2000.

LK How long?

WC 1 day for us, 1/2 day with PF?

LK What about confidentiality issues?

WC Who does not have member access?

BM Does not although CAST has.

WC We can just avoid talking about member private issues.

Action WC: ask wai domain about PF and ER meeting and what to do about some issues that might be member private.

LK Do we sit in on their meeting or they sit in on ours?

/* XML 2000 is 3-8. Sunday through Friday. preconference tutorials are 3 & 4. */

Resolved: Thursday and Friday before XML 2000 is preferred (rather than Saturday, although Saturday is possible depending on what PF wants to do).

Discuss use of class

Len's notes from 18 August 2000.

LK Some pages already have link to TOC. This would give the functionality "automatically." "title" as new attribute in CSS.

HB Could something that is in CSS be used?

LK Not sure.

HB Hate to add something new that the processors don't recognize.

LK You can insert text into the text flow. If you use something that puts in the prefix that would make it invisible.

WC Could have 2 style sheets.

LK Or an extra style sheet that inserts the info so as not to duplicate the main style sheet. The user agent would have the ability to search on these inserted strings. Since they are inserted and visible, user agents that haven't implemented would show it. Then have JAWS set them up.

WC How will the cascade work if you define the same class twice? Will they unite or will one override the other?

LK So 2 questions: what does CSS spec say, what do browsers actually do?

/* WC reads through CSS 1 spec looking for info for defining classes in multiple sheets */

WC Could use ID and class?

HB Don't want to use ID. Have the info in the doc itself or separate style sheet.

LK You have a choice. Link to it or include in header.

WC What about the use of namespaces as suggested by Dan and Charles in their discussion? Looking for something that works today? Thoughts?

LK Didn't think about it much. How would it work?

WC Each class would have an associated class that would have info about it.

LK So RDF creates the link to info.

WC Namespaces is more of an XML convention rather than

/* scribe notes other discussions on this:

/* Brian has to leave, so discussed latest version of Bobby */

LK WC is there something that fully explains the namespaces proposal?

WC Yes, the discussions from Dan, but I'm not sure if it associates enough information, it focuses on links.

LK It is just a way of being able to use class names without conflicting with someone elses's use. But, it has nothing to do with "title." Therefore seems to be an independent issue. However, we could use the two together. Not an alternative but a parallel.

Action LK: add notes to draft to discuss :before and :after pseudo-elements to insert content. Then send on to WCAG and PF, also send heads-up to UA.

LK If there was a "title" property, is there another use in the general market place that would give it additional value? Tool tips?

WC Tool tip not a strong case, since lots of developers annoyed with tool tips and alt already.

HB We could then have a variety of titles for each element.

WC Sounds confusing and complex. How decide which one? Really need? Perhaps use it to create a link to the info contained within to simplify the page more. E.g. like frames: use the title as a link to the frame and handle each in their own "window." Good thing for mobile devices.

Comments on new version of Bobby

HB "http" duplicaiton.

BM Can clean up easily.

HB Webable is in cahoots w/you somehow.

BM It's on our news page. We've signed an agreement with them. Anytime someone says, "I don't have the time, can someone make them compliant?" We point them to webable. We can add others to the list.

LK Is this just a list that anyone wants to be added to?

BM We can make arrangements.

LK The question marks are links that don't go anywhere.

BM Went ahead and released. It's a bug.

LK Best just to make them inactive rather than have go nowhere.

BM good suggestion.

LK There are some pages that make the error of not wrapping javascript in comment, shows up in header.

BM We know about, but low priority.

LK At the top of some pages, you see javascript. When I see that, I think "Bobby's broken" although I know it is is problem with the page.

BM We haven't had many comments on that.

HB I was surprised when I saw it.

BM Good to know.

LK I will be sending these comments so we don't minute them in detail.

/* scribe relaxes a bit */

LK "user checks are not triggered."

BM Wording should be there.

LK On the page that I reviewed, the first 3 items did not have line numbers.

BM Not sure what to do about that. If we don't give a specific check, like "color contrast," we don't give line numbers.

LK So you have 3 categories:

  1. always check
  2. check but not localizable.
  3. local - blink and marquee

BM, yes on 2, gets too overwhelming to present all instances. Adding "make sure that your alt-text is real" in the list of things to always check.

LK My concern is that you can pass Bobby with "garbage" alt-text, yet you don't want to clutter up the page.

LK What is "BA"?

BM Bobby approved. Isn't that described? This is the minimum to follow.

LK Advanced options could be missed. Search engines put it near the submit button.

BM Good idea. We could make it more noticeable.

LK Good to impersonate browsers, but can't do it completely accurately because of browser sniffing javascript tricks.

LK /* several more suggestions for cosmetics. will be sent as e-mail to the list */

HB HTML 4 check does not specify if it is strict, frame, or transitional.

BM Not checking DTD but tag list.

HB But tag list is different. Next release?

BM Couple months hope to clean up some bugs and rerelease.

/* discussion returns to classes */

Upcoming meetings

WC I'm on vacation next week. We need a scribe for Monday. Then September 4 is a holiday, but we are scheduled to meet with AU on the 5th anyway.

Open: We need a scribe for the 28 August meeting.

Resolved: No meeting on 4 September, meet with UA on 5 September.

$Date: 2000/11/08 08:17:26 $ Wendy Chisholm